Jump to content
IGNORED

Mad Men


xDreamerx

Recommended Posts

I'm going to be a bit of a devil's advocate here, and say I don't find what Joan did sad, bad, or anything but practical, if a little cold and calculating.

Joan was trading on the one thing she can count on, her sexuality. Joan could have an I.Q. higher than Einstein, who at the company would ever have noticed?

Don has certainly traded on his looks over the years (the female department store owner for one, the nasty comedian's wife).

Joan did what she felt she had to do.

I don't think badly of what she did, I just think it put her in a bad position in the eyes of some of the other partners. I can imagine Pete getting snide about her "sleeping her way to the top."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 331
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Exactly. I realize she did it as a means of survival but it will change how people characterize her unfortunately.

I don't really perceive Pete as being that bad. I think he's a strange mix of ambition and naivete. Does he really intend to do these things with malice? I'm not sure he does. I've never felt that he was that self-aware.

I've always hated Betty, but fat Betty made her seem endearing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like Peggy's clothes. I thought the purple dress was nice.

I have to admit that I look at Peggy's vs. Megan's clothes through my own personal filter: I was 16 in 1968, and Megan's clothes are more in tune with what my friends and I would have worn when we dressed up. Naturally, I have no clue about what most career women IRL wore to the office.

I just read the Tom and Lorenzo piece linked here and agree: They are brilliant.

Perhaps Joan did what she felt she had to do, but it will forever taint what the guys at the agency think of her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read the blog, but I didn't find it that brilliant or anything. It was things i had thought of already. But it was extremely well written and thoughtful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read the blog, but I didn't find it that brilliant or anything. It was things i had thought of already. But it was extremely well written and thoughtful.

I really enjoy their "Mad Style" posts. It's amazing when you go through and see how Janie Bryant helps tell the story through clothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's amazing when you go through and see how Janie Bryant helps tell the story through clothing.

I totally agree. There is nothing really wrong with Peggy and Betty's hair styles and clothing, but they are a tiny bit dated for the late '60s. Peggy is becoming ever more daring in the way she manages her life and her career, but she's playing it safe with her wardrobe. She continues to dress more like "one of the office gang" than an ambitious career woman. And Betty seems to be stalled in her personal life--she was edgier and more in tune with contemporary culture when she was married to Don (not that I'm a Betty fan).

Megan's look, though, shouts "wave of the future!" as regards the culture of the late '60s; she's wearing things that many women wouldn't have tried till the '70s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lurked over at TWoP's MM board and was a little surprised at the degree of Megan/Pare' disdain ... but I also was a little vindicated, tellyathetruthaboutit. Pare' is a very pretty lady and has a good body for 1960s-2010's clothing ... but that much of an actress, I think she's not.

Meanwhile, Megan grates on me, I admit. I wish she'd just get impatient with Don and flounce outta there with a lot of alimony, already. She needs to move fast, as no-fault divorce is coming pretty soon, if I remember my late-20th-century history rightly. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lurked over at TWoP's MM board and was a little surprised at the degree of Megan/Pare' disdain ... but I also was a little vindicated, tellyathetruthaboutit. Pare' is a very pretty lady and has a good body for 1960s-2010's clothing ... but that much of an actress, I think she's not.

Meanwhile, Megan grates on me, I admit. I wish she'd just get impatient with Don and flounce outta there with a lot of alimony, already. She needs to move fast, as no-fault divorce is coming pretty soon, if I remember my late-20th-century history rightly. ;)

Mhmm. 1968. It's obvious her and Don are completely incompatible. The Generation Gap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like Megan, but I agree--her marriage to Don seems doomed to failure. Too bad; she would be a wonderful influence on his kids. Don, while he does have redeeming qualities, is far too intent on playing the role he's designed for himself to learn how to adapt to a wife in any truly substantial way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re. the June 3rd episode;

I was really hoping Lane would take the Jaguar not starting as a sign from the universe not to commit suicide. Unfortunately, he was determined. They really pull no punches on that show do they? I mean in the graphic way they showed Lane after he'd hanged himself. I didn't quite get Don's reaction later. Letting Sally's friend drive the car. What was that all about? I'm still not sure if Don has actual human emotions or not. I also get the feeling someone connected to that show does not like Jaguars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re. the June 3rd episode;

I was really hoping Lane would take the Jaguar not starting as a sign from the universe not to commit suicide. Unfortunately, he was determined. They really pull no punches on that show do they? I mean in the graphic way they showed Lane after he'd hanged himself. I didn't quite get Don's reaction later. Letting Sally's friend drive the car. What was that all about? I'm still not sure if Don has actual human emotions or not. I also get the feeling someone connected to that show does not like Jaguars.

QFT. I've heard the

driving scene

explained as an affirmation of life and hope, but it seems ...

suicidal to me

. I mean, what are the chances that something bad was going to happen with *that* arrangement? Pretty good, I'd say, and then Don would have

the death or dismemberment of a young person

on his hands, as well.

I haven't watched the promos for the season finale because they're usually pretty uninformative and misleading, and because as well as the FX folks did with that one scene, I don't want to see it again. Ever. But I'm fascinated at how they're going to include all the scenes that need to be included.

I"m thinking back to the days of once-promising series that devolved into a rut of "something important happened, but we'll just tell you about it, we won't show it happening onscreen." How the heck can MM even begin to show all the important things that need to happen after this one????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Loved this weeks episode. In my estimation this one, last week's and the Mystery Date episode were three of the best. This season I think the show has really hit a stride. Maybe because the themes are a bit darker? I don't know, but I like it more and more each week it seems.

I liked the juxtaposition of Sally getting her period, which is kind of life or the capacity for life, with Lane's death. I don't know if that was intentional, but probably. It made for a really sweet moment between her and Betty. We're definitely getting a more flushed out, softer Betty this season. Lane with the car was very sort of Death of a Salesman. He's obsolete, he's Willy. But the scene so pathetic because he can't even manage to kill himself because the car itself is too new and too much of an innovation for him to figure out. Even in suicide he's obsolete. But then, with the hanging we get this wonderful sort of flash back to Don's brother. I think that's why Don was so determined to cut him down. But interestingly, they had Pete, the up and coming antithesis of Lane be the one to cut him down. I think we'll see a resurgence of the Kenny vs. Pete energy that earlier seasons had. The driving, to me was chasing happiness. It was that quintessential American road story of looking for something new. Glen asks his question about disappointment, and you get the sense that really asking if it's ever possible to be truly happy. And Don isn't. He's still chasing his happiness. So he helps Glen chase his because he sees himself in Glen ultimately. Don is a depression era kid so you get this nice fusion of the Joads and Kerouac. It endures through the generation gap, that search for something better, for happiness. Don isn't unfeeling at all. He's wonderful in my opinion. Probably one of the most sorrowful and sad characters ever, but also the most determined.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:clap:

Loved this weeks episode. In my estimation this one, last week's and the Mystery Date episode were three of the best. This season I think the show has really hit a stride. Maybe because the themes are a bit darker? I don't know, but I like it more and more each week it seems.

I liked the juxtaposition of Sally getting her period, which is kind of life or the capacity for life, with Lane's death. I don't know if that was intentional, but probably. It made for a really sweet moment between her and Betty. We're definitely getting a more flushed out, softer Betty this season. Lane with the car was very sort of Death of a Salesman. He's obsolete, he's Willy. But the scene so pathetic because he can't even manage to kill himself because the car itself is too new and too much of an innovation for him to figure out. Even in suicide he's obsolete. But then, with the hanging we get this wonderful sort of flash back to Don's brother. I think that's why Don was so determined to cut him down. But interestingly, they had Pete, the up and coming antithesis of Lane be the one to cut him down. I think we'll see a resurgence of the Kenny vs. Pete energy that earlier seasons had. The driving, to me was chasing happiness. It was that quintessential American road story of looking for something new. Glen asks his question about disappointment, and you get the sense that really asking if it's ever possible to be truly happy. And Don isn't. He's still chasing his happiness. So he helps Glen chase his because he sees himself in Glen ultimately. Don is a depression era kid so you get this nice fusion of the Joads and Kerouac. It endures through the generation gap, that search for something better, for happiness. Don isn't unfeeling at all. He's wonderful in my opinion. Probably one of the most sorrowful and sad characters ever, but also the most determined.

xDreamerx: Gazunga! :clap: What a post!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lurked over at TWoP's MM board and was a little surprised at the degree of Megan/Pare' disdain ... but I also was a little vindicated, tellyathetruthaboutit. Pare' is a very pretty lady and has a good body for 1960s-2010's clothing ... but that much of an actress, I think she's not.

Meanwhile, Megan grates on me, I admit. I wish she'd just get impatient with Don and flounce outta there with a lot of alimony, already. She needs to move fast, as no-fault divorce is coming pretty soon, if I remember my late-20th-century history rightly. ;)

Not to New York, it's not. New York State didn't get no-fault divorce until a year or so ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought we (Canadians) reached no-fault in 1968, but it turns out divorce laws were expanded then beyond physical abuse or adultery. Actual, complete no-fault did not come to be until 1986. But I know there was a spike in divorce rates in the late sixties/early seventies and that there was a huge controversy about it in Quebec because of the stronghold the Catholic church had there. In terms of the U.S. it looks like it varied by state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought we (Canadians) reached no-fault in 1968, but it turns out divorce laws were expanded then beyond physical abuse or adultery. Actual, complete no-fault did not come to be until 1986. But I know there was a spike in divorce rates in the late sixties/early seventies and that there was a huge controversy about it in Quebec because of the stronghold the Catholic church had there. In terms of the U.S. it looks like it varied by state.

Canada did get no-fault divorce in 1968, it was part of the Divorce Act, 1968, which expanded the reasons for divorce to include mental or physical cruelty, desertion, separation for three years or having an imprisoned spouse. The separation for 3 years was no fault divorce option. Today there are only 3 options: adultery, mental or physical cruelty or separation of 1 year. The living separate and apart for a year is still how you get no fault divorce in Canada. The separate and apart option was the same except for the time required by the two Acts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally agree. There is nothing really wrong with Peggy and Betty's hair styles and clothing, but they are a tiny bit dated for the late '60s. Peggy is becoming ever more daring in the way she manages her life and her career, but she's playing it safe with her wardrobe. She continues to dress more like "one of the office gang" than an ambitious career woman. And Betty seems to be stalled in her personal life--she was edgier and more in tune with contemporary culture when she was married to Don (not that I'm a Betty fan).

Megan's look, though, shouts "wave of the future!" as regards the culture of the late '60s; she's wearing things that many women wouldn't have tried till the '70s.

I think that making Peggy and Betty's hair styles and clothing seem out of date makes them seem seem more distant from the younger generation that is coming up and widening the generational gap. Betty's clothes and hair are a reflection of her older values and life aspirations, which aren't aligned with the social change that will be occurring. Its marks her as out of date and not with the new fashions. Its a trend that began in an earlier season when she showed up for the modelling auditon and she was dressed as she would have in the 1950s for an audition and very different from how all the current models were dressing.

Peggy too is removed from the generation that is up and coming, even by a few years as well. She is on the cusp of it, but seems to be just a few years ahead of it. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't career clothes hard to find for women in the 1960s? They didn't have a lot of options as it wasn't expect of them? At least that was what i heard from grandmother who was a career gal herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got into the workworld in the early 1970s and I can tell you that The Women's Business Suit was big news about then. Older women in the office wore dresses ... come to think of it, that's what the few older professional women (that is, not clerical) wore, as well.

No woman wore pants to work. I was told that if I did, other women would rain down their wrath upon me. A man told me that (jerk).

I read that Betty's wardrobe reflects the lack of options a woman over 35 (or so) had, and I do remember my mom sighing that she hated to go shopping because everything was "so blah."

Peggy is in a kind of sartorial limbo: She wants to dress well, but not so that she's mistaken for a secretary; her options are few until the advent of the women's business suit -- with its stupid floppy-bow tie! LOL but I digress.

The dress she wore to the Cool Whip pitch and the one she wore to give her resignation to Don reminded me of the not-quite-sure options we had back then. They are like the pale cousins of the outfits that ballsy femmes like Bobbie Barrett wore for business, but they skirt (pardon) the in-your-face sexiness of Joan's office wear.

Yeah, watching Mad Men is a whole 'nother trip for this old gal! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MamaJ--what you said! Decent business wear for women? Heck, when I was pregnant a decade later, I could barely find any decent maternity clothes, so I made my own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hane, oy! Tell me!

I wanted 3/4 or full sleeves for any maternity work wear. Patronizing saleswomen said, "Oh, honey, you won't. You'll be so hot, you'll thank us for only carrying sleeveless or short-sleeved tops. Argh.

I was going to write (kvetch) more but mercifully, it all seems to have slipped my mind. :dance: On the upside, MM fashion has got me thinking about how I can wear fascinators, hats, *something* to add to my height and "presence" in a room. I detest Bobbie Barrett but hoo boy, she had some headwear, eh??? :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oneanddone, you and me, too! Boy, I hope there isn't another years-long delay before the next season!

OH, also -- do I understand rightly that there is a set number of seasons planned? This is S5 ... somewhere I think I've heard that the story will come to a close in S7 ... ????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oneanddone, you and me, too! Boy, I hope there isn't another years-long delay before the next season!

OH, also -- do I understand rightly that there is a set number of seasons planned? This is S5 ... somewhere I think I've heard that the story will come to a close in S7 ... ????

I know they were definitely contracted for a season six and season seven is deemed likely. Matthew Weiner has said that season 7 will be the last. But I don't know. It's a pretty popular show and has been good for the network. Maybe it will keep going after that? The only thing I hate about these premium channel shows like AMC and HBO etc. is that the seasons are so short.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.