Logic says that herd immunity is false.

[Wolfie]

And this related incident just showed up on my FB feed.

http://yubanet.com/regional/Whooping-Co ... County.php (not breaking the link because it's a news site.)

[already hungover]

I want to start off by saying I loathe Jenny McCarthy with a passion that I cannot even describe.

On that note, I'm on the fence with vaccines. I had my older ones get all of theirs, but then my fourth child (who now has autism) had a horrible reaction to the DTaP combo. Hospitalized and everything. Now, I don't think it was the vaccine. I don't. However, that whole experience scared the shit out of me (it was investigated and found that is was an acute reaction. My ped reported it to VARS and the whole deal).

That is scary! Poor guy! I had an anaphylactic reaction to the DTaP as an adult. It sucked. Now I can't get a tetanus shot again, and I feel like kind of a hypocrite because I'm so pro-vaccine for everyone. The anti-vax lobby makes me so angry though. Like whenever people are like, "Why should we vaccinate for polio? Nobody gets it anymore!" I want to be like "GUESS WHY, DUMBFUCK?" :twisted:

[YPestis]

Didn't Jenny McCarthy say that her son's autism was "cured"? How can anyone take her seriously after that?

[lawfulevil]

The antivaxxers never cease to amaze me.

Have y'all seen http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1466938897 ?

[Patsy]

Fun fact: title is based on "George's Marvelous Medicine", written by Roald Dahl whose beloved daughter... died of measles.

[already hungover]

The antivaxxers never cease to amaze me.

Have y'all seen http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1466938897 ?

My brain exploded. I like the related products too.

[Bonnie]

I suspect that you are right. I just wish that the anti-vaxers themselves would be the ones to bear the brunt of it, but most of them are adults and were probably properly vaccinated by their parents so it's their innocent children who will pay the price.

I was vaccinated, once, at the age of six (polio). That vaccine caused my ability to speak to vanish for almost a month. This is actually the only thing that I remember from childhood; I remember that I had the words that I wanted to say in my head and could not get them out.

Note that when this inability to speak happened, no doctor could say if I would be able to speak again. The inability was caused by the vaccine; that, too, is something the doctors verified. My parents then learned from the very same doctors that there's a 1:1000 chance that a vaccine causes something unpleasant (and unexpected) on a person; and in 1:20,000 it can cause brain damage or even be lethal.

I never got any vaccines ever after. Also, my son isn't vaccinated either because there have never been any studies concerning if that 'vaccine allergy', as my doctors called it, can be inherited.

I can only speak for myself and my offspring, but we'll never be vaccinated. Note that I'm not advocating that *no one* should be vaccinated. However, be aware that there may be very unpleasant (and, occasionally, lasting) side effects.

I apologize if my wording is weird. My native language is not English.

[twin2]

The US is due for another good plague.

As terrible as this sounds, yes that is what it is going to take. It is going to take people a lot of people dying to snap us back into reality that vaccination is one of the greatest works of modern medicine.

My grandmother is a a wee bit of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to new technology (she does own a microwave). The one thing that worries her the most is the fact that my cousin refuses to vaccinate her two youngest children (she did vaccinate her oldest, and she claims this is why he is a picky eater :icon-rolleyes:). Why? Because she remembers what it is like before vaccinations. She remembers summer fairs being canceled because of polio. Living in fear every muscle ache could be the start of the disease. She saw some of her siblings die of rubella. She held babies with whopping cough. She gets it. Why people think that just because they have an internet connection and mouse makes them smarter than a whole lot of doctors and scientist who devote years of research and data gathering to this is beyond me.

[Fargood]

The US is due for another good plague.

If there was a plague in the US, it would just be more fuel for the "it's the ebil scientist/feminist/gayz" contingency. They love themselves a good conspiracy.

Remember 9/11? It's the gays! No, it's the feminists! No, wait, it's the Jews! No, wait, the Jews and the liberals!

By the end of the plague, the teabaggers would have anyone working for the CDC shipped to Gitmo and public education would be dismantled (we're already half way there).

[AmyP]

Didn't Jenny McCarthy say that her son's autism was "cured"? How can anyone take her seriously after that?

that's because her son never actually had autism in the first place. She as much as admitted that he was misdiagnosed initially in an interview at one point, but still stands by everything she claims.

[Burris]

Logic? LOGIC? She doesn't know jack shit about logic.

I've seen a great many graphs on this subject, but the simplest is best here:

Logic says if most people around an unvaccinated person are themselves vaccinated, and thus not effected by and spreading the disease, then the unvaccinated person is also protected by...wait for it...herd immunity!

Herd immunity isn't just some flighty idea that might work in the future; it does work now, and it has worked in the past – in the eradication of polio, even though not everyone was vaccinated against it; in the destruction of smallpox, despite the fact some people were simply too remote for vaccination.

These women are giving homemakers a bad name - far worse than anything 'the world' could ever do.

ETA: I've mentioned there here a few times. Not really sure why. But my husband suffered severe lung damage and has been in hospital six months, most of that time in ICU. The one time he came home, that lasted four days before the internal bleeding nearly killed him.

What started this shit storm, you may ask?

We did not get our flu shots on time. My husband ended up with pneumonia and the flu - and then, when one cleared up. he ended up with a nearly untreatable hospital-acquired variant of the former.

What could we have done to avoid this? Well, there was really only one thing: Vaccinate. Prevent.

By the time he was infected, it was too late.

[AmyP]

Landau–Kleffner syndrome, often misdiagnosed as autism, is what most people think Jenny McCarthy's son actually has.

[ILoveJellybeans]

If there was a plague in the US, it would just be more fuel for the "it's the ebil scientist/feminist/gayz" contingency. They love themselves a good conspiracy.

Remember 9/11? It's the gays! No, it's the feminists! No, wait, it's the Jews! No, wait, the Jews and the liberals!

By the end of the plague, the teabaggers would have anyone working for the CDC shipped to Gitmo and public education would be dismantled (we're already half way there).

Yeah, true, if there was a plague caused by people not vaccinating their kids, the people who dont vaccinate (cause theyre against it, not cause of legitimate reasons like allergies) would probably make up some conspiracy theory about how its someone elses fault. Probably the government spreading a virus in some way, like put into the air by planes or put into food or some other harmless looking thing...

[twin2]

But Burris, that has nothing to do with the vaccines! It is all because we have cleaner water now! :roll:

(yes modern sanitation has helped prevent the spread of diseases, but not everything lives in poo)

[Burris]

But Burris, that has nothing to do with the vaccines! It is all because we have cleaner water now! :roll:

(yes modern sanitation has helped prevent the spread of diseases, but not everything lives in poo)

It's actually one of my only real passions - water purification in developing countries. (There are a number of cheap and effective systems for sanitation that can be installed.) There also has to be education about how germs spread when a person fails to wash her hands after handling meat or manure. (I'm also big on Humanure - the safe storage, treatment, and eventual use of human fecal matter - 'night soil' - which is being used in developing countries for crops even now, but incorrectly.)

Even in giving people recipies for making lye soap (from scratch – which is disgusting), or the simple explanation for how to make chlorine bleach, it's not enough to stop the spread of disease. People live in close quarters, drink from the same vessels, sleep together in the same beds. All one of those people need do is come in contact with a disease while out and then everyone will have it even before they realize what has happened.

Sanitation is super important, but it is simply not enough.

So yeah, I totally agree with you. And I don't understand how these American mega-homemakers who claim to do all this shit from scratch don't know about simple matters like this.

[Guest]

I'll admit that my extended family was spooked when my cousin developed autism that my aunt claims to this day was caused by his vaccinations. It was a scary thing to watch a normal child suddenly stop talking and enclose himself in his own little world right around the time that he got his shots. Even though there was no way to prove the connection, my parents and aunts got my youngest siblings and cousins vaccinated very slowly (1 shot per doctor's visit) though still responsibly (they had everything recommended by the time they started school.)

You know what was also scary? When my sister (who was vaccinated normally) got tuberculosis. It was scary seeing her in the hospital at under 100 pounds. It was scary to see her have to be quarantined and to wear a mask every time a nurse came to visit. It was scary listening to her wake up and have coughing fits until she threw up multiple times a night for months. It was scary watching her take 21 pills at a time to try and get rid of the disease. It was scary to see her almost not graduate high school because she was so behind in school. It was scary to see all of her friends and family (except me, the lone negative test) test positive for the virus and have to go on heavy medication for months.

Tuberculosis is SCARY. If my sister had not been so healthy, she could have DIED. That's scary. And do you know why she got it? Probably because somebody came here from another country without getting the proper vaccination. They don't vaccinate for it in the US anymore since it's so rare, but dammit that's sometimes not enough. When I have kids, I am vaccinating those children without a second thought. Not all of these diseases are chicken pox. The great majority of them are SCARY and I'd rather not see my children in the same state as my sister was in.

[Wolfie]

I was vaccinated, once, at the age of six (polio). That vaccine caused my ability to speak to vanish for almost a month. This is actually the only thing that I remember from childhood; I remember that I had the words that I wanted to say in my head and could not get them out.

Note that when this inability to speak happened, no doctor could say if I would be able to speak again. The inability was caused by the vaccine; that, too, is something the doctors verified. My parents then learned from the very same doctors that there's a 1:1000 chance that a vaccine causes something unpleasant (and unexpected) on a person; and in 1:20,000 it can cause brain damage or even be lethal.

I never got any vaccines ever after. Also, my son isn't vaccinated either because there have never been any studies concerning if that 'vaccine allergy', as my doctors called it, can be inherited.

I can only speak for myself and my offspring, but we'll never be vaccinated. Note that I'm not advocating that *no one* should be vaccinated. However, be aware that there may be very unpleasant (and, occasionally, lasting) side effects.

I apologize if my wording is weird. My native language is not English.

As many of us have said- it's people like you who have had severe reactions that is why everybody who can get vaccinated should. Herd immunity theory allows for a small amount of people who can't be vaccinated as long as nearly everybody else is vaccinated. They protect you.

[Wolfie]

I'll admit that my extended family was spooked when my cousin developed autism that my aunt claims to this day was caused by his vaccinations. It was a scary thing to watch a normal child suddenly stop talking and enclose himself in his own little world right around the time that he got his shots. Even though there was no way to prove the connection, my parents and aunts got my youngest siblings and cousins vaccinated very slowly (1 shot per doctor's visit) though still responsibly (they had everything recommended by the time they started school.)

You know what was also scary? When my sister (who was vaccinated normally) got tuberculosis. It was scary seeing her in the hospital at under 100 pounds. It was scary to see her have to be quarantined and to wear a mask every time a nurse came to visit. It was scary listening to her wake up and have coughing fits until she threw up multiple times a night for months. It was scary watching her take 21 pills at a time to try and get rid of the disease. It was scary to see her almost not graduate high school because she was so behind in school. It was scary to see all of her friends and family (except me, the lone negative test) test positive for the virus and have to go on heavy medication for months.

Tuberculosis is SCARY. If my sister had not been so healthy, she could have DIED. That's scary. And do you know why she got it? Probably because somebody came here from another country without getting the proper vaccination. They don't vaccinate for it in the US anymore since it's so rare, but dammit that's sometimes not enough. When I have kids, I am vaccinating those children without a second thought. Not all of these diseases are chicken pox. The great majority of them are SCARY and I'd rather not see my children in the same state as my sister was in.

I don't think that they have a very effective TB vaccine. It's why people who work for the public, like teachers and health care workers have to be tested every few years to make sure that they are not carriers.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis#Vaccines

Vaccines

The only currently available vaccine as of 2011 is bacillus Calmette–Guérin (BCG) which, while it is effective against disseminated disease in childhood, confers inconsistent protection against contracting pulmonary TB.[66] Nevertheless, it is the most widely used vaccine worldwide, with more than 90% of all children being vaccinated.[6] However, the immunity it induces decreases after about ten years.[6] As tuberculosis is uncommon in most of Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States, BCG is only administered to people at high risk.[67][68][69] Part of the reasoning arguing against the use of the vaccine is that it makes the tuberculin skin test falsely positive, and therefore, of no use in screening.[69] A number of new vaccines are currently in development.[6]

[Wolfie]

If there was a plague in the US, it would just be more fuel for the "it's the ebil scientist/feminist/gayz" contingency. They love themselves a good conspiracy.

Remember 9/11? It's the gays! No, it's the feminists! No, wait, it's the Jews! No, wait, the Jews and the liberals!

By the end of the plague, the teabaggers would have anyone working for the CDC shipped to Gitmo and public education would be dismantled (we're already half way there).

Or if you look up other outbreaks in the county that I linked the article about the current outbreak, the parents just say that Whooping Cough is a normal part of childhood. It really is insane. At some point they are going to let the disease mutate enough to be even more severe.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I was born in Russia (when it was the USSR) and I have been vaccinated for TB. I don't know if this vaccine would actually help me during a real TB outbreak. I do always get false positives for TB though, which is fun to explain...

[dairyfreelife]

I am currently doing an investigative project on if the anti-vaccination crowd holds any weight in their arguments. I have spent hours and hours and hours researching and giving local surveys and have set up appointments to talk to local doctors. I can't get ahold of Sally or Dr. Mercola. Mercola does not see patients anymore and spends his time doing other things now. He is making lots of money on his anti-vaccination movement and selling products that can be purchased cheaper on Amazon and local health stores. Doctors actually don't make much money giving vaccines.

A lot of arguments come from fear of links and being full of poisons. Crazy links that it causes autism, SIDS, ADHD, allergies, asthma, cancer and even Shaken Baby Syndrome. The last one is so insane I am not even going to bother with it in my paper. SIDS has been around forever it seems, originally termed overlaying in the belief that mothers caused the death by laying on her baby and would punish her as a result. And the other ideas are all easily refutable as well based on statistics.

Also the fear of it being full of poison is all false as well. Claims of mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum, monkey and aborted cells are all crazy and just a little research proves it. Mercury was once a preservative in vaccines and has not been replaced so only trace amounts exist now. You are going to get much more mercury in your body eating a tuna fish sandwich than in all the vaccines combined. Formaldehyde is a preservative and you are going to probably get more exposure to it painting your nails than in vaccines. Aluminum is used to help boost the immune response in vaccines and it very common in nature. And the cells are used to help start up vaccines and the response. Behind the start of the vaccine, no more animals or fetuses are used to produce the vaccines.

Not even getting to the former playboy model who pretends she's a scientist or her quack doctor, Gordon who is putting out these claims. Same with moron Jim Carrey, whom I never cared for anyway in movies, pretending he's a scientist as well. Same with Sally Fallon, Dr. Mercola (some doctor), Dr. Oz (some doctor), or any other doctor who is trying to claim he knows jack shit about how to cure disease and you don't need to vaccinate.

b0IvM8c-Pew

Btw, all information was easily available via the CDC and some searching around the internet. It really doesn't take much to refute all their claims. Many times they do it themselves.

[mg78]

As far as I know, the anti-TB vaccine has no offer an statistical significant protection from the diseases, tat is why it is not giving in the US. Although, the BCG was though to offer a small protection to infants a decade ago, I do not know if this has been debunked by the latest anti-TB study.

I got twice the vaccine and when I went to get it for the third time ( in my country of origin, you get it every ten years) I was told to not worry about, the vaccine was useless and this was many many years ago.

[dairyfreelife]

For the anti-vaccination group who thinks whooping cough is not that bad...

KZV4IAHbC48

dZ5jf-5MobE

[Guest]

As far as I know, the anti-TB vaccine has no offer an statistical significant protection from the diseases, tat is why it is not giving in the US. Although, the BCG was though to offer a small protection to infants a decade ago, I do not know if this has been debunked by the latest anti-TB study.

I got twice the vaccine and when I went to get it for the third time ( in my country of origin, you get it every ten years) I was told to not worry about, the vaccine was useless and this was many many years ago.

I wouldn't be surprised. The doctors told us that there was a vaccine that was not administered to many in the US, but we also heard many inconsistencies, which is unsurprising since TB is so rare. Outside of the specialist (who was thankfully in our area), most of the doctors we saw had very little information about the disease.

Regardless, if there had been the slightest chance that people can prevent diseases like this they should be taken! Seeing firsthand how scary and dangerous these "dead diseases" can be has really opened my eyes as well as the rest of my family's.

[Boogalou]

I thought Dr. Oz was a real doctor. Wikipedia (I know) says he is. I've never watched his show and don't know much about him but it does say he has an MD. And that he performs 200 heart surgeries a year. If he's doing that I hope he's a real doctor!