Is "gifted" and "smart" overused?

[Shirley MacLaine]

Being in GT class had ups and downs for me. I was annoyed that there was no cap on taking the test: I tested in on the first try when I moved over from Christian school in 5th grade. Other kids tested again and again and again until they were happy (or, more likely, their parents were happy). That was my snob thing. I also disliked about... oh... fully two thirds of the other kids. I shit you not, we'd be handed some bullshit mandatory-for-everyone assignment meant to prepare us for the state test, and oh my god, the whining and whining about how we ~gifted~ childrens should not have to do the shitty work the other stupid children have to do. There was also a clear divide in the class between rich kids and weird kids. That was the mix. We did not like each other. We argued all the time, about everything. At the same time, since we were always together, our class discussions would get really intense and personal. We knew each other really well. And there was kind of a camaraderie or whatever.

The program was disbanded in high school because the administration decided it wasn't good to have divisions like that. I remember the principal came in to talk to us about it and said something, like, 'we don't want to tell some students they're blackbirds, and some students they're red birds...'

Anyway, I'd say some in the class were well and truly above average. Some I thought were dunce cap status even when I was twelve. I remember a boy who was just brilliant, like, really brilliant. AFAIK, he's a drug addict or something and still lives in my hometown.

Anyway, no one of that particular 'gifted' group has gone on to do anything so wonderful or impressive. Maybe one girl? Everyone else is just, you know, whatever. Middle management or mentally ill.

So yeah, I don't know. I'm grateful that I got to do a lot of advanced reading and learn on my own, but I don't know what good it really did! Sure, I love to read now - but I am a big-time academic failure and am just going to do a trade program now anyway. It doesn't seem necessary to label children 'gifted.' It doesn't mean anything... about how their lives will turn out. Most will be completely average, and that's okay. Worst case, you foster a really gross sense of 'specialness' and entitlement in the child. Then they can't deal with turning out 'average.'

[crazyforkate]

I can say without qualification that the "gifted" label was the worst thing my parents and teachers could have applied to me. It has caused me lifetime problems and in the end was much more trouble than it was worth. If I end up with a gifted child, I would be very frightened and would have no idea what to do.

[Shirley MacLaine]

I can say without qualification that the "gifted" label was the worst thing my parents and teachers could have applied to me. It has caused me lifetime problems and in the end was much more trouble than it was worth. If I end up with a gifted child, I would be very frightened and would have no idea what to do.

Can you explain more? I'm curious :)

I don't feel that the ~gifted label had a huge impact on my life other than maybe I am a slightly bigger douchebag than most people? But I could see it being a really negative experience in a few ways.

[acheronbeach]

I can say without qualification that the "gifted" label was the worst thing my parents and teachers could have applied to me. It has caused me lifetime problems and in the end was much more trouble than it was worth. If I end up with a gifted child, I would be very frightened and would have no idea what to do.

I gotta agree.

In my group of supposedly "gifted" kids, we were so goddamned bored in gifted class, and the school had no money, so we fucked off and did as we pleased (Video games? Sure! Spending the day at Wendy's? Sure! Reading comics? Why not!). And worst, we got the bullying and the jealousy when we returned to the real world from both students and teachers. We ended up lazy, angst-ridden, and arrogant about a label that reflected no particular achievement.

Two of my fellow gifted kids have criminal records. One is a junior geologist with a BSc for a private company. I'm a criminal prosecutor in a teeny weeny rural town. One is still trying to get her law degree after five years of working full time toward it. One makes his own web-TV show. Nothing brilliant or Earth-shattering.

Inculcating work ethic would have helped us far more.

[Rosa]

I would have to dig for the academic citations, but I'm pretty sure what garden variety citizen is talking about is typical for public-school gifted programs. They're primarily a tool for keeping richer and whiter families in the public schools, and they act as tools of segregation.

There's also the well-documented effect that putting "regular" or "low achieving" kids in the G&T track often causes them to perform better. It goes the other way too, of course - many kids work to expectation and opportunity.

I do see the old habit of conflating "awkward" with "gifted" giving way to actually identifying kids with social skills needs as needing help with that, regardless of how smart or academically talented they are, at least.

[itsnikki05]

I think MOST of the children that people think are gifted are probably just really smart. There's nothing wrong with that! It's better than average even! I do have a nephew who actually does have a high IQ, and he really is smart. I have a hard time saying he's actually gifted though, he just seems to be VERY smart. Time will tell. (He's in 2nd grade. I tend to count it more when they get in the tougher grades...)

[skrmom]

My son is in our local public school and has been since kindergarten. Yes,I think he is smart. His test scores reflect this-he is in the 98th percentile on his latest ACT test and will be graduating 8th in his class (top 2.5%). He in in all advanced placement classes and dual enrollment classes which is essentially college level courses. He will have over 35 hours of college credit before he steps on the college campus this fall. I could not have taught him college level biology, algebra, trig., calculus, economics, etc at the dining room table. A few of his classes have been taught by teachers with Ph.Ds. I feel he has an advantage over home schoolers.

[August]

I would have to dig for the academic citations, but I'm pretty sure what garden variety citizen is talking about is typical for public-school gifted programs. They're primarily a tool for keeping richer and whiter families in the public schools, and they act as tools of segregation.

There's also the well-documented effect that putting "regular" or "low achieving" kids in the G&T track often causes them to perform better. It goes the other way too, of course - many kids work to expectation and opportunity.

I do see the old habit of conflating "awkward" with "gifted" giving way to actually identifying kids with social skills needs as needing help with that, regardless of how smart or academically talented they are, at least.

Gifted programs are, in general, utter crap. Pullouts especially.

Anyone with any sense realises that the most important skill in life is learning to rise to a challenge, work hard and learn (cue half a dozen posts saying it's not important at all). And you do that by giving them work that they struggle with, that's just a bit too hard, so they have to think about it, get it wrong, figure out where they went wrong and try again. And I also think that it's important to learn with peers, not on your own at the backof the classroom.

IQ is just a rough tool, but you wouldn't say there was no difference between someone with an IQ of 55 and one of 100, so why lump in kids with an IQ of 100 and 145?

The problem of pacing the curriculum for all different speeds of learning is pretty much taboo in most places. It's also a tough problem. You have as many kids who need the curriculum to be going half as fast as you do who need it to be going twice as fast. But there aren't that many of each group, and there are even fewer who need it three times as fast. And the three times as fast kids aren't served by a double speed curriculum. And among them it's not even consistent, because they'll have different levels for various skills. And because they're uncommon you might have three in your school, all different ages. And because it's pace that is the issue you can't just have them spend a couple of months in each grade level class because the curriculum isn't compacted in a grade level class. You need dedicated teachers.

And yet in terms of district wide outcomes it's incredibly expensive to have a dedicated teacher or two running these fast paced classes, and you will get no boost to your test scores, because they can all read and write no matter what you do. But you do have a large pool of kids who are maybe a bit ahead of the curve, six months to a year or so, and if you spend a tiny amount you can give a sop to the parents of all of them. So you hire one teacher who can serve several schools for a morning or afternoon a week, the kids get to do some fun stuff like making videos or magazines, and when you're totally failing some of them you can tell the parents that they're in the gifted program, what more do they want? So, yeah, gifted programs suck. Mostly because they're a sop for people who don't have much of a problem so they can ignore the ones who really do have a problem.

[Ralar]

I would have to dig for the academic citations, but I'm pretty sure what garden variety citizen is talking about is typical for public-school gifted programs. They're primarily a tool for keeping richer and whiter families in the public schools, and they act as tools of segregation.

There's also the well-documented effect that putting "regular" or "low achieving" kids in the G&T track often causes them to perform better. It goes the other way too, of course - many kids work to expectation and opportunity.

In my school district, a large proportion of the GT population are minorities. There are a large number of Asians (far east), which is to be expected, but also a large number of kids of South Asian descent (Indians) and a good number of children of African immigrants. There are a good number of "white" kids, some Hispanics and (at least in my daughter's school) some African-American kids. My daughter's school contains a "GT Center." The GT kids are in self-contained classes for academic subjects and are mixed with the "community education" kids for art, music, PE, band, etc. To me, it appears that the GT Center population mirrors the school's general population, with one exception. There is a Title 8 apartment complex next door to the school, so there are a larger number of "needy" students in the general population than in the GT population, which is composed of kids from 5 nearby elementary schools.

Every year when I see my daughter's class roster, I'm amazed at the number of names I have never heard before and cannot pronounce. These are traditional Aftican, Indian and/or Muslim names, not made-up names.

[crazyforkate]

Can you explain more? I'm curious :)

I don't feel that the ~gifted label had a huge impact on my life other than maybe I am a slightly bigger douchebag than most people? But I could see it being a really negative experience in a few ways.

In my public school system, the "gifted" label really had two effects: 1) to take kids off into smaller groups and have them do "enrichment" activity, when these kids were already different and needed to develop socialization skills and 2) to give them a sense that they were better, didn't need to work as hard, etc. Maybe in larger centres, where bigger communities could be established, it might work out better, but in my town, it didn't work at all. I had a big head, no work ethic, and no social skills - and no friends, because even though I tried to be friends with people, I rarely worked with them in class and didn't know how to deal with them in social contexts. I didn't learn how to work until university, believed my natural abilities would carry me along, and the social skills are still really difficult. It is still really hard for me to do something that isn't effortless (like school was for most of my childhood), even if I have decent ability. I was also labelled "extremely gifted" from a young age, so I was an oddity even among the eggheads. I do think that a child needs stimulation, but this should apply to every child - not just those who are perceived to be of "higher intelligence". I'm doing okay now, but it was tough.

[paganhomeschooler]

I think the gifted label is VERY important. Kids who are truly gifted are not just smart or over achievers or quick learners. Their brains are wired much, MUCH differently from other kids. My oldest began speaking at 6 months old. Not just mama and dada. She was naming colors and animals. She could have a conversation in full, complex sentences and be fully understood by an adult by the age of 18 months. She quickly picked up letters, numbers, colors, shapes. She taught herself how to read. She had me read Hop on Pop to her over and over. She was trying to figure it out. One day, it "clicked" for her. She recognized words from Hop on Pop in other places. She quickly moved on from there and was reading The Story of Helen Keller and Charlotte's Web when she started kindergarten. She received her first IQ test then. She was advanced to 1st grade halfway through the year.

She was lucky enough that in 2nd grade, they had a 2nd/3rd combined full time classroom for the gifted kids. She stayed in that class until she "graduated" elementary in 4th grade. It was taught by teachers with gifted certifications that knew how to handle gifted kids and all of the issues that go along with it. In fact, when she was in 2nd, that teacher was finishing up her degree for her GT credentials and did her final as a case study on my daughter. And, FWIW, her class was racially diverse.

She had a 2nd IQ test in 2nd grade to assess her specific areas of giftedness to work that into her GT education plan. She was then identified as having superior cognitive abilities as well as being exceptionally gifted in Math. She's also quite talented in music and can play by ear as well as play a piece of music perfectly in just a handful of tries of getting the sheet music. It is truly an amazing thing to watch.

Gifted kids, in most districts, definitely DO NOT get preferential treatment or extra resources. My daughter was very, very lucky to be in the specific school building she was in as well as having the principal she did who also had a background in GT. She was the single best educator I have ever had the pleasure of meeting in all of my dealings with schools from my own childhood to my children. Most kids aren't so lucky. Many districts don't even have GT programs. A vast majority of GT funding was cut at the end of the Bush presidency. Not to mention NCLB is a joke and does nothing to help GT kids. Teaching to the test is the worst thing that has ever happened to America!

We pulled my daughter out of school because she was being bullied. Our old district was horrible. Kids threw milk on her and broke windows on the bus but were still permitted to ride. It was ridiculous. She was constantly going to the worthless school nurse who would call at least once a week to come get her because she had "a headache and stomachache", you know the 2 most common hallmarks of complaints from a bullied child. We are now in a much better district and she is back in public school.

And, for the record, no I'm not trying to toot my own horn or brag about my kid. Please believe me when I say, I love my daughter very much, but a child of average abilities is A-OK by me! Giftedness comes with a host of its own issues. It has been much, much easier to deal with my children with learning disabilities than with the gifted one. She gives us a run for our money on a daily basis.

Not that I don't feel bad for my babies that struggle so hard to do what comes so easily to their big sister and their father and me. I wish it was easier for them, but they are still regular kids who just need help figuring out reading and spelling. I am very VERY hopeful that #4 is going to be a nice, average, middle of the road, not GT, not LD, just average schoolkid. *fingers crossed*

[flyawaystray]

Well said. I see that among a handful parents I know; not just the homeschoolers but among mainstream families as well (I am not a parent, but I work with kids).

Was it Abigail that had the nearly-illiterate "gift child" with Oppositional Defiant disorder (common in kids with unstable home lives)?

My sister has ODD. Legit diagnosed with it by a psychiatrist. Of course, she's also bipolar and it has nothing to do with her having an unstable home life. It's genetic in our family.

[HeckBound]

My kids are reasonably bright and were labeled "gifted" at an early stage of their school career. They're fine, but it's amazing how many fewer "gifted" 16 year olds are v. 6 year olds.

I laughed my ass off a few years ago reading an article in the NYT about some twee yuppy west side nabe in. Manhattan that was having school crowding issues. EVERY SINGLE OARENT described their kid as " gifted". ALL of them. I wet myself reading it,,,those pretentious douchebag parents. So fu.nmt

[Mustang Sally]

I was identified as "talented" from a young age, but not "intellectually gifted." Adults emphasized to me over and over again how smart I was, how talented I was at certain things, and it paralyzed me. I simultaneously felt inadequate for not being truly gifted, and like a fraud who wasn't as smart/talented as everyone said I was.

I wish more emphasis and support and reward had been given for my efforts, persistence, and willingness to learn from my mistakes -- you know, those things I actually had some measure of control over -- than for whatever amount of natural intelligence I was born with.

It severely hampered my ability to do well in school and truly learn, from adolescence onward. It still affects me now.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I consider myself of average intelligence and above-average motivation and tenacity. I'm in a grad program at a university where I am surrounded by, and teach, genuinely gifted students (and one year I had a bona fide genius who could run circles around me in my native language). It can be pretty intimidating and occasionally demoralizing...but I figure my hard work got me this far, so I keep pushing. I've always had to try a little harder at most things...honestly I'd say maybe I'm even a little bit below average intelligence when it comes to spatial and numerical reasoning. But based on my experience, I would say a good work ethic and a passion for what you do will often get you as far (or further) than "natural" gifts, so I think it is one of the most important things a parent can teach a child.

[fundiefun]

There is only one person I have met in my 24 years I dont even know what to call her. Shes an engineering student at one of the top five in the country and aced the practice exam for mensa and found an error in one of the questioks, but has no desire to join and took the exam just for fun. As smart as she is she never skipped grades and can party with the best of them and bartends on weekends. For her it all comes so natural that its not a big deal to her but compared to her sister the sister is what you consider average which theres nothing wrong with. You can push your kids as hard as you want to be considered gifted but most crack under the pressure or they really arent gifted but the parents push it and fight to prove to others their child is just for the label as a status symbol.

[amers]

I was called stupid my whole life, made "average" grades if I was lucky, tutored after school everyday, had to come early to retake many tests... I was in a "normal" class. (I have dyslexia) The "gifted" kids had all the perks, the teachers actually TAUGHT those kids, where as they didn't give us as full of an effort, otherwise I wouldn't have had to spend so much time OUTSIDE of the classroom actually learning. We weren't the special snowflakes, and there was a big difference in how "that" class was treated compared to the more broad population of students, yet....when we took our ACT's in high school, I scored higher than almost all of those kids who were in the gifted classes in elementary and middle schools and those that took AP classes. So what I'm saying is, I think it's ridiculous to segregate kids by labels. My son, he is under estimated just like me, he doesn't follow the "normal" way of learning, but you know what? I think he's smart. I think he's gifted. In his own ways. To worry about what people are calling their kids, gifted, smart, whatever, to me is just a waste of time. Teach your kids to your best, homeschooled or public and enjoy them, but don't get caught up in what an outsider wants to call them. There is nothing wrong with telling them they are special, in their own ways. One system doesn't work for everyone, and one label doesn't fit each person, but there are worse things to call your kid than smart or gifted.

[crawfishgirl]

I have a 2nd grader and a 4th grader, and this is the first year attending public school. Before this school year, they attended a private Catholic school, but there were a few things that we didn't like, so we moved them to the public school. At their new school, most of the grades have 7 classes each, and one class in each grade is designated as the GT / advanced class. So the GT kids are in that one class, and if there are extra slots in the class (which there usually are), other kids are placed in there based on prior years' grades and test scores. My 4th grader was placed in the advanced class based on her test scores from her prior school, but my 2nd grader was not, since she hadn't taken any standardized tests yet. The advanced classes are more challenging, and from my experience, the educational prep is better than at the private school they attended.

As a result, I am having my kids tested for the GT program. I couldn't care less about the status issue (I would never bring it up in casual conversation anyway), but I want them to have that educational advantage of being in a more challenging environment. I think it would be a disadvantage to not be in that class. There are definitely both pros and cons regarding this set-up.

[lilah]

I think that the obsession with giftedness is a bit of the Lake Woebegon effect where we want children to be above average.

I was labeled as being bright/above average as a kid because when I was in 2nd grade I was put in a 3rd grade class along with several other really bright 2nd graders. Although I think I was probably the weakest student in that group, the rest of them probably could have skipped 2nd grade altogether.

One of my biggest regrets in life was that I never really developed a good work ethic until I was in AP classes and college. In middle school I switched to a private school and they did far more advanced math work than I was used to and I was constantly behind. I vividly remember asking a teacher for help and she told me I wasn't trying hard enough. I got mad and stopped trying at all figuring I was just smart in other subjects and I'd be a mediocre math student. In high school I took AP/honors for Literature/History and the easy classes for science/math and got low B's.

My kids are reasonably bright and were labeled "gifted" at an early stage of their school career. They're fine, but it's amazing how many fewer "gifted" 16 year olds are v. 6 year olds.

Have you read Nurtureshock by Po Bronson? He argues that most giftedness tests are applied too soon and that most kindergartners who test gifted are often on the same level or even behind their "normal" peers by the time they reach 3rd grade. The reality is kids develop at different paces and a lot of advantages/disadvantages even out by 3rd/4th grade.

As for homeschooling I think homeschooling parents are under a lot of pressure to prove how smart and well educated their children are. Also people without advanced education in the field of teaching have skewed ideas about what is considered good education. They will emphasizes some areas and ignore others, like the fundie mom who thought who thought a good 5th grade science lesson about the solar system was to teach the boy a song about the planets. Or a secular family who bragged about their genius 6 year old who could read chapter books but was completely average in math/writing.

[sewingmom2]

Just wanted to say--I considered my homeschooled son to be gifted. He has a degree from Harvard. I'm thinking that maybe I was right. :)