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It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad...


Koala

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I feel the same. Becoming Pope is like becoming a US Supreme Court justice. You expect to have a bit of mileage on you before you are even considered; and your tenure is life, assuming good behavior. You can expect that your old grandpa years will be spent in the same drafty halls reading and writing the same type of things, except when you're Il Papa, you don't even have grandchildren to woo you away. All indications are he didn't really care to be Pope anyhow, so why didn't he just say no? And if saying no back in 2005 would have been like spitting in God's face, then why is it OK to say no now? So many things about this would torque me off if I were Catholic, but a surprising (to me) amount of the Catholic response seems to be, "Oh, poor old guy, it's OK to take a break." Really? What did you think the job would be like?

I think, as several people have said before, that it's all political. The Catholic church needed a buffer Pope. Coming in immediately after a Pope as beloved as JPII (which I never understood, but whatever), anyone new was going to be scrutinized extra hard and compared (probably unfavorably) to him. Bennie provides a buffer so that the next person doesn't have their entire Popehood tainted from always being in Saint JP's shadow.

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Okay, I didn't realize she's a convert, which sort of explains some of the histrionics.

And also, maybe, why she doesn't realize that Catholics don't "serve under" the pope. From a serious, serious Catholic background and have to say that I've never heard anyone--including great aunt who was mother superior of an order of nuns--ever talk about "serving under" the pope.

Also she perhaps mistakes the Italian "il papa" when referring to the pope as "my papa." It's means the pope and no one confuses it with their actual papa. If she thinks of the pope as her "dad," she's way out of touch with even the most conservative

Yeah, I thought that the "serving under" the Pope sounded odd too. I come from a Catholic background (though now a 'Pisky), went to Catholic HS and have several Catholic friends and acquaintances. Most fairly moderate, two very devout/conservative and possibly I would term "fundy lite" but no one as out there as Abigail. I have never heard ANY of them, or read anything from the conservative-leaning blog posts I've read, talking about "serving under" the Pope.

I've heard the affectionate "Papa Pope" thing in the days since Pope Benedict announced his resignation, but never in the Abigail-way of actually trying to make the Pope into a substitute for one's real father.

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Or she has more issues than we thought. :think:

Well, there is that, too. I've always wanted to know what her husband thinks of her engagement to Jeebus?

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I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and even I find this creepy. Italians call him Papa, but that's just the language. She's getting mighty close to idolotry with that kind of thinking. . . .

Also, as a Catholic, I'm kinda glad. I was never a fan of Ratzinger. He was too fussy and conservative, and I still can't believe his first speech as the pope was about the evils of Harry Potter. I mean, really... war? Poverty? Let's talk smack on a made up fairy tale. And I call bullshit on the "I'm too tired and old". Popes have been older, and worked till they dropped. You diodn't think you could do it, you had no business accepting the papacy.

I remember the weekend JPII died, though. I cried. My family always referred to him as " buona papa", the good pope. He is pretty revered. I have kind of a crazy story about visiting his crypt. His crypt is down in the catacombs, and is roped off and guarded by a member of the Vatican Guard. I was standing there when a little old lady walked by, and tossed a rosary on to his grave. I thought it was sweet until she tried to climb over the rope to get it. The guard freaked out, and pushed her back. They had a good five minute argument over it, she was practically shrieking at him to let her get it, and the guard was basically saying "You want me to step on the pope's face? No!" My Italian isn't that good when people are talking that fast, but he definitely called her a disrespectful something-or-other. He finally relented, toed the edge of the crypt, and handed them back. Then told her to get out immediately.

Crazy stuff to see on hallowed grounds

He talked about the "evils" of Harry Potter? Do you remember what he said? Even the two most conservative of my Catholic acquaintances love, and I mean LOVE Harry Potter.

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Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger loves it when you call him Big Papa.

That's an even better set up for this than I could have hoped for:

0sF_vU18ydU

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ope Opposes Harry Potter Novelsâ€, made it appear that Benedict XVI has read the Potter books and found them dangerous. Given the release a few days later of the sixth novel in J. K. Rowling’s famous series, the timing of the story can only be considered brilliant by those who oppose the Harry Potter phenomenon. This news is already swirling around the Internet.

When contacted by LifeSiteNews, Potter opponent and Catholic novelist Michael O’Brien was quick to state that this judgment “reveals the Holy Father’s depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment†and that “it is consistent with many of the statements he’s been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years.†O’Brien concluded that Benedict XVI “is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him.â€

------- AND

gut oder böse (Harry Potter- good or evil?), in which Kuby says the Potter books corrupt the hearts of the young, preventing them from developing a properly ordered sense of good and evil, thus harming their relationship with God while that relationship is still in its infancy.

“It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly,†wrote Cardinal Ratzinger.

---

The hilarious part is that John Paul II had no objections to HP

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I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and even I find this creepy. Italians call him Papa, but that's just the language. She's getting mighty close to idolotry with that kind of thinking. . . .

Also, as a Catholic, I'm kinda glad. I was never a fan of Ratzinger. He was too fussy and conservative, and I still can't believe his first speech as the pope was about the evils of Harry Potter. I mean, really... war? Poverty? Let's talk smack on a made up fairy tale. And I call bullshit on the "I'm too tired and old". Popes have been older, and worked till they dropped. You diodn't think you could do it, you had no business accepting the papacy.

I remember the weekend JPII died, though. I cried. My family always referred to him as " buona papa", the good pope. He is pretty revered. I have kind of a crazy story about visiting his crypt. His crypt is down in the catacombs, and is roped off and guarded by a member of the Vatican Guard. I was standing there when a little old lady walked by, and tossed a rosary on to his grave. I thought it was sweet until she tried to climb over the rope to get it. The guard freaked out, and pushed her back. They had a good five minute argument over it, she was practically shrieking at him to let her get it, and the guard was basically saying "You want me to step on the pope's face? No!" My Italian isn't that good when people are talking that fast, but he definitely called her a disrespectful something-or-other. He finally relented, toed the edge of the crypt, and handed them back. Then told her to get out immediately.

Crazy stuff to see on hallowed grounds

I pretty much agree with you, I am a practicing Roman Catholic and I found her very very creepy. I never ever have thought of the Pope as my "Dad", that is just too weird. He is the leader of the Church and he is important but he is not my Dad figure!!! geesh! Also I don't know if I am just misunderstanding her post but Pope Benedict cannot be involved in the selection of a new Pope, unless she just means that he is praying for the new Pope out wherever he may end up being at but not within the cardinal gathering. And yeah, i wasn't very much in to Pope Benedict. I too cried when JPII passed away, he was very significant for Latin America and I almost got to see him when he visited Mexico.

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I guess the first post I had didn't post (I hate my phone sometimes!)...no, she is actually engaged to Jesus, so they can't be related.....

I totally forgot about her engagement to Jesus. Wonder where they are registered?

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ARSE!!!

DRINK!

Seriously though, the other day, when this was on the front of the UK Daily Mirror, I loved the way the journalist casually threw in, "Shortly after the announcement, St Peter's Church in Rome was struck by lightning", as if that was to be expected!

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I'm Catholic, and we love Harry Potter. I don't get that. I remember asking my old spiritual director what he thought about that statement, and he said, "Well, considering I'm half way through this one already...I guess I like it?" and he held up the second book in the series. :lol:

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Oh, that's it. Pro-life, I loathe. Anti-gay, I hate. Patriarchy, gross, get rid of it. But Anti-Potter? You are dead to me.

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And honestly, as a Catholic, I find a very redeeming quality to the whole series. Lily Potter sacrificing her life for her son...good vs evil. I've heard the magic argument as being against Catholic teaching...but everyone loves Tolkien, and CS Lewis...LOTR and the Narnia series are all totally magic oriented.

It's almost like they just wanted to pick on it.

There was a women in our church who was really bashing it, talking about how bad it was. I just sat there and let her have her say. She asked what I thought, and I told her I pretty much disagreed with everything she thought. And that I read them, and I let my kids read them.

I haven't heard from her again.

Oh well.

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And honestly, as a Catholic, I find a very redeeming quality to the whole series. Lily Potter sacrificing her life for her son...good vs evil. I've heard the magic argument as being against Catholic teaching...but everyone loves Tolkien, and CS Lewis...LOTR and the Narnia series are all totally magic oriented.

It's almost like they just wanted to pick on it.

There was a women in our church who was really bashing it, talking about how bad it was. I just sat there and let her have her say. She asked what I thought, and I told her I pretty much disagreed with everything she thought. And that I read them, and I let my kids read them.

I haven't heard from her again.

Oh well.

LOTR was written by a staunchly Catholic man. Narnia's author was another man, a theologian and a Christian apologist sympathetic to the RCC.

HP, on the other hand, was written by a woman, a divorced woman and single mother, a woman who's a member of the Church of Scotland.

See that massively huge distinction I just made there? ;)

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And honestly, as a Catholic, I find a very redeeming quality to the whole series. Lily Potter sacrificing her life for her son...good vs evil. I've heard the magic argument as being against Catholic teaching...but everyone loves Tolkien, and CS Lewis...LOTR and the Narnia series are all totally magic oriented.

It's almost like they just wanted to pick on it.

There was a women in our church who was really bashing it, talking about how bad it was. I just sat there and let her have her say. She asked what I thought, and I told her I pretty much disagreed with everything she thought. And that I read them, and I let my kids read them.

I haven't heard from her again.

Oh well.

I had to look up Michael O'Brien, and his whole anti-Harry Potter screed is that it confuses good and evil because characters like Harry who are supposed to be "good" are doing evil things like witchcraft.

His interview is here: studiobrien.com/writings_on_fantasy/interview-with-lifesite-news.html. A lot of blah blah blah disorder moral relativism occult blah blah and those who defend Potter so vehemently are doing so because they are corrupted by some sort of evil spirit within our entertainment culture.

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LOTR was written by a staunchly Catholic man. Narnia's author was another man, a theologian and a Christian apologist sympathetic to the RCC.

HP, on the other hand, was written by a woman, a divorced woman and single mother, a woman who's a member of the Church of Scotland.

See that massively huge distinction I just made there? ;)

Of all the ridiculous arguments against HP that I've read and shaken my head over in the past twelve or so years, this is one I hadn't heard. But you know what? From a fundie's standpoint, it makes the most sense! :laughing-rolling:

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I know lots of priests who love Harry Potter. My undergrad, which is Jesuit, has a tradition every year during Banned Book Week to take pictures of professors with their favorite banned books and turn the pictures into posters to hang in the library. The posters are on display year-round and they add more every year. Each poster has a virtue or quality assigned to it to show what values we can learn from these "bad" books (not sure if it's identified by the professor or the designer). My favorite poster is a picture of one of our Jesuits, holding one of the Harry Potter books, with the descriptor "Christly".

I'm also in the "you insult Harry Potter, we're done" camp ;) I am like a Harry Potter evangelist - I've convinced a number of people to read the books and my one friend blamed me for her Harry Potter Lego collection. My one fundy experience with Harry Potter was around when one of the movies or books came out. I had decorated our basement with Harry Potter memorabilia for my party and my sister's friend and his mom came over. I was not there but apparently the mom threw a total fit about us having Harry Potter things in our house and how her kid couldn't be exposed to it. (Luckily my mom loves Harry Potter, so she didn't care. I have heard similar stories but then the parents start thinking they shouldn't be letting their kids read it, and ban it thereafter.)

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I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and even I find this creepy. Italians call him Papa, but that's just the language. She's getting mighty close to idolotry with that kind of thinking. . . .

Also, as a Catholic, I'm kinda glad. I was never a fan of Ratzinger. He was too fussy and conservative, and I still can't believe his first speech as the pope was about the evils of Harry Potter. I mean, really... war? Poverty? Let's talk smack on a made up fairy tale. And I call bullshit on the "I'm too tired and old". Popes have been older, and worked till they dropped. You diodn't think you could do it, you had no business accepting the papacy.

I remember the weekend JPII died, though. I cried. My family always referred to him as " buona papa", the good pope. He is pretty revered.

I am a practicing Catholic also. I was so mad when Ratzinger was elected pope. I was hoping for anyone but him. He is so conservative and ruled with an iron hand. He did say he would only serve as an interim pope, I had thought maybe 2 or 3 years.

I loved JPII. He was a poet and playwright when he was young. He had been in love with a girl he worked in the Resistance with, she was killed. He always seemed so much more human because of this. He truly suffered a lot in WWII.

i was very sad when JPI died. He gave me a lot of hope for the Church but then he died. I still think he was killed by those who didn't want him in power but we'll never know.

Abigail is just plain crazy. She is one of those converts who wants to be more Catholic than the Pope. I don't know any Catholics who think of the Pope as a father, dad, or papa. As for her own father I read somewhere in her blog he doesn't think much of her becoming Catholic. He's a liberal history professor.

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Really? What did you think the job would be like?

At the beginning he said he was only willing to serve as an interim pope. He never intended to serve the rest of his life and said so. I don't like him, never did, but even he deserves to retire at age 85. I retired at 68, I can't imagine if I still had to work another 17 years!

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I know lots of priests who love Harry Potter. My undergrad, which is Jesuit, has a tradition every year during Banned Book Week to take pictures of professors with their favorite banned books and turn the pictures into posters to hang in the library.

Pope John Paul II approved of Harry Potter.

The Vatican's position on Harry Potter has changed considerably over the years. Pope John Paul II once praised both the author and the book series, saying that the leading character was fighting against Satanism. Pope Benedict XVI doesn't accept this; even while still Cardinal Ratzinger he once wrote a letter attacking the series and it appears that he may continue to hold this position.

http://atheism.about.com/b/2008/01/17/o ... potter.htm

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