The gospel according to Lori: Spanking and submission

[Kitty]

So, today, spanking should be painful and result in tears.

Tomorrow, spanking should be a light, painless pop on the butt and the child should be smiling and grateful afterward.

This is why I can't stand debating with spankers, they constantly contradict themselves and when called on it have a hissy fit about "kids these days" and how "we were spanked and we turned out fine!!!1" as if that's any scientific, empirical data on whether or not spanking works and which spanking methods work better than others. Pretty much reinforces my belief that spanking achieves fuck all and solely exists to make ill-tempered parents feel better about their lack of anger management skills.

[Syd+Marky]

On an anti-Pearl site, I read an alternative interpretation of the verse about the rod of correction.

Their interpretation was that when the bible talks about the 'rod of correction', it's in the context of shepherding. A good shepherd uses the rod to gently redirect wayward members of the flock - but never hits them with it. Fundies choose to believe it literally means a rod with which to beat a child, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

Since Lori is a Pearl zombie, I think they probably follow the Pearl's advice on the matter of Emma. She's a baby, so what, a 12-inch willow 'switch' to beat her with should suffice?

After reading a bit of this thread yesterday I had to go read this womans blog.Not only is she BSC,hoever she interprets the biboe,shes a child-abuser.

I have to say after some thought about why people interpret that certain bible verse about "sparing the rod",I came up w/ the same conclusion,Vex.Even if I took all the bible says literally(I dont),this is how I would interpret it.It seems like these fundies use their interpretations to justify their methds in making "obidient children who can be a credit to their parents".So they beat their kids to make themselves look good!

[lilwriter85]

Today Lori posts about dealing with chronic pain. She has talked about it before in the past. I don't have sympathy for her in that regard because of how she is. I mentioned wanting her to get her comeuppance someday. I think her chronic pain is part of that, I still hope she ends up in a shitty nursing home. Lori will probably gets comments from her fangirls saying that they will pray for her and hope she heals.

[Boltingmadonna]

Kitty said:

Pretty much reinforces my belief that spanking achieves fuck all and solely exists to make ill-tempered parents feel better about their lack of anger management skills.

Pretty much says it all! :clap:

Oh, and I just have to add that spanking also exists to make neglectful parents feel self-righteous that they are "training" their children when in reality they aren't doing anything to address problems rationally or help the child get skills for dealing with them.

[Syd+Marky]

Kitty said:

Pretty much says it all! :clap:

Oh, and I just have to add that spanking also exists to make neglectful parents feel self-righteous that they are "training" their children when in reality they aren't doing anything to address problems rationally or help the child get skills for dealing with them.

Exactly!Parenting w/o spanking is much harder,but we had our children-If people dont want to put in the effort to parent w/o hurting their kids they shouldnt have them IMO.

[snarkyjan]

Today Lori posts about dealing with chronic pain. She has talked about it before in the past. I don't have sympathy for her in that regard because of how she is. I mentioned wanting her to get her comeuppance someday. I think her chronic pain is part of that, I still hope she ends up in a shitty nursing home. Lori will probably gets comments from her fangirls saying that they will pray for her and hope she heals.

I also hope that the superintendant of said nursing home will be named Trunchbull, Squeers or Ratched.

[GiggleOfGirls]

Re: parental instincts - the way that I always had it explained to me by fundie spanking advocates was that our "instincts" were God-given, but had been tainted by the fact that we're all born sinners. So, therefore, they aren't to be trusted :snooty:

So, what I don't understand is why, distrusting their instincts, they don't then look at the Bible as a whole (rod verses being in Proverbs, a book of poetry that's not part of the law, not commanded in the NT; fruit of the spirit; etc), studies (oh, wait, science is evil :twisted: ), and use their common sense to figure out that spanking isn't required by the Bible, doesn't work (practically speaking), and that there are other ways to discipline without either physical punishments or permissiveness. The fact that it's possible to spank AND be permissive probably hasn't occurred to them either.

Honestly, I think that most pro-spanking Christians are spouting a party line without actually understanding the soundbites that they spout off.

[Koala]

Today Lori posts about dealing with chronic pain. She has talked about it before in the past. I don't have sympathy for her in that regard because of how she is. I mentioned wanting her to get her comeuppance someday. I think her chronic pain is part of that, I still hope she ends up in a shitty nursing home. Lori will probably gets comments from her fangirls saying that they will pray for her and hope she heals.

Typically I would feel terribly for someone suffering from chronic pain. Hopefully Lori's own words will bring a measure of comfort to her:

Pain is a great teacher.

Many people believe pain and suffering are bad things. They are not.

God uses pain in our lives to teach us many things ~ to trust in Him, to be more compassionate, to obey Him, to lean on Him and realize that this isn't our home. It helps us to lessen our grip on things of this world.

Of course when Lori wrote this she was referring to the pain she chose to inflict on her children, but surely she can apply those sentiments to her own situation as well.

Lori's views on the benefits of pain (for children of course) ------>

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/01/allowing-children-pain.html

[Koala]

own, not on. Long morning *sigh*

[lilwriter85]

This is a bit OT, but I also find it a bit odd that despite have many medical problems, Lori has a hard empathizing with people struggling to get afforable healthcare. Overall, I really don't feel bad for Lori whenever she talks about her health problems. I'm at the point where I could probably sympathize or empthaize more with Zsu, Kelly C, and some of the other fundie bloggers.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So Lori starts off this post nicely for a change, talking about a nice postman:

lorialexander.blogspot.ca/2013/02/mike-postman.html

She writes about him:

He lives by the motto, "If you can't say something nice about someone, you're just not looking hard enough." When students come up to the counter, he will compliment their nails, their shoes, or even their handwriting. He has been this way with every customer every day for 38 years. He believes kindness begets kindness.

She learns some lessons from this:

Mike is a good example of who we should all strive to be. Find the best in others. Speak encouraging words often to them. Be joyful. So, find the best in your husband. Speak encouraging words to him often and be joyful with him. Most of all, love him deeply just as he is now.

Somehow, though, she has this huge blind spot and can't apply this same lesson to children. It's sad, because if she would let go of her punishment obsession, she'd likely find out what Mike the Postman already knows: If you treat people with love and respect - even if they are university kids - they tend to respond well.

Why doesn't she encourage people to raise their kids this way? Find something to praise every day. See the best in them. Recognize that we are role models, and therefore model love and respect to them.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Re medical problems:

I have to wonder how much of the pain is related to repressed stress (which can often trigger fibromyalgia). Being in a marriage where you are constantly trying to repress your desire to express yourself freely to your husband when you think he's wrong, and where he clearly thinks that you are a bitch and where he is so insecure that he NEEDS to be right and gets off on seeing you struggle to suppress your own personality and thinks that he can order you to eliminate any opinion that is contrary to his because he's a man, can cause you to direct your stress inward, where it can play havoc with your nerves and your immune system.

[No, I'm not pulling mind/body stuff out of my ass here. Hubby treats auto-immune disorders, and there is a definite correlation between flares of the diseases and stress. The link is even clearer with fibromyalgia.]

[Koala]

This is a bit OT, but I also find it a bit odd that despite have many medical problems, Lori has a hard empathizing with people struggling to get afforable healthcare.

I get the feeling that she and Ken are pretty flush financially, and I don't think she really gives a shit about anyone that's not her. I also think she is severely lacking in empathy. Her privilege has not served her well.

[docmom]

I get the feeling that she and Ken are pretty flush financially, and I don't think she really gives a shit about anyone that's not her. I also think she is severely lacking in empathy. Her privilege has not served her well.

If people have no insurance it's their own fault, right? I mean obviously if you have a congenital disorder and can't get insurance because of your pre-existing disorder, it's because of something bad you did before you were born (or even conceived). Clearly Lori is out working hard each day contributing to society as a whole and that's why she deserves health care. Oh wait...

[AllisonWndrland]

Re medical problems:

I have to wonder how much of the pain is related to repressed stress (which can often trigger fibromyalgia). Being in a marriage where you are constantly trying to repress your desire to express yourself freely to your husband when you think he's wrong, and where he clearly thinks that you are a bitch and where he is so insecure that he NEEDS to be right and gets off on seeing you struggle to suppress your own personality and thinks that he can order you to eliminate any opinion that is contrary to his because he's a man, can cause you to direct your stress inward, where it can play havoc with your nerves and your immune system.

[No, I'm not pulling mind/body stuff out of my ass here. Hubby treats auto-immune disorders, and there is a definite correlation between flares of the diseases and stress. The link is even clearer with fibromyalgia.]

Totally agree. This has also been documented in the SA/DV field. Survivors of sexual or domestic violence often have problems with pain, GI disorders, etc. Given what she reveals in her blog, I'm not surprised that she deals with chronic pain.

[wayward]

FWIW, Helen Aardsma (mentioned in Lori's blog) has a website at http://www.themotherscompanion.org . I've met one of her sons, but nobody else in that family.

[Full enough quiver]

It amazes me how many Fundies misinterpret the "rod" as a switch and not as a tool used to guide, ie: a shepard guiding his flock with his rod. It's pathetic that they don't even properly understand what they preach.

Omg, exactly! I have always said this! It's like they don't even read the bible! Psalm 23 "thy rod and thy staff comfort me" I'm pretty sure a Pearl style rod isn very comforting. And all their crap about discipline?!? Discipline comes from the same root as disciple, which means to teach. Not to beat the crap out of. The bible does not advocate beating children. When my daughter was little, I spanked her a few times. (never a beating, always 1-2 smacks on the bottom with my open hand) I regret those times. I'm not making excuses, but I was 15 years old, and every time was because I was overwhelmed and lost my temper. It was nothing to do with her, and everything to do with my own lack of self control. When you know better, you do better. There is nothing more disgusting than using the bible to justify abuse.

[laura oz]

Omg, exactly! I have always said this! It's like they don't even read the bible! Psalm 23 "thy rod and thy staff comfort me" I'm pretty sure a Pearl style rod isn very comforting. And all their crap about discipline?!? Discipline comes from the same root as disciple, which means to teach. Not to beat the crap out of. The bible does not advocate beating children. When my daughter was little, I spanked her a few times. (never a beating, always 1-2 smacks on the bottom with my open hand) I regret those times. I'm not making excuses, but I was 15 years old, and every time was because I was overwhelmed and lost my temper. It was nothing to do with her, and everything to do with my own lack of self control. When you know better, you do better. There is nothing more disgusting than using the bible to justify abuse.

:clap: QFT

[Ekugal22]

Maybe someone should beat her with that leather strap...but maybe she already does! Its always the strict Christian peeps that are the freakiest!

[GolightlyGrrl]

So Lori starts off this post nicely for a change, talking about a nice postman:

lorialexander.blogspot.ca/2013/02/mike-postman.html

She writes about him:

She learns some lessons from this:

Somehow, though, she has this huge blind spot and can't apply this same lesson to children. It's sad, because if she would let go of her punishment obsession, she'd likely find out what Mike the Postman already knows: If you treat people with love and respect - even if they are university kids - they tend to respond well.

Why doesn't she encourage people to raise their kids this way? Find something to praise every day. See the best in them. Recognize that we are role models, and therefore model love and respect to them.

I can't believe Lori praised an ebil government worker.

I saw this tv segment featuring this wonderful postal worker. I can't imagine anyone who is more unlike Lori than this gentleman. He is kind, empathetic, and open-minded, things Lori is definitely not.

[Effie]

It amazes me how many Fundies misinterpret the "rod" as a switch and not as a tool used to guide, ie: a shepard guiding his flock with his rod. It's pathetic that they don't even properly understand what they preach.

That would not be the first time they haven't understood something in the Bible. I'm thinking about the common fundie-misinterpretation of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah...