why do Christians say they don't hate gays?

[AtroposHeart]

While they are discriminating against them?

I was thinking about the straight-only prom and the lesbian couple being denied a wedding cake.

In both stories the people claimed that they did not hate them, yet they were only using hateful actions.

My Pagan mind can't understand this.

Why would you constantly deny other people dignity, yet not hate them?

[wtylcf]

While they are discriminating against them?

I was thinking about the straight-only prom and the lesbian couple being denied a wedding cake.

In both stories the people claimed that they did not hate them, yet they were only using hateful actions.

My Pagan mind can't understand this.

Why would you constantly deny other people dignity, yet not hate them?

I think it boils down to the mentality, "love the sinner, hate the sin." Honestly, I think a lot of fundamentalists DO hate the sinner as well as the sin and use it as an excuse for their hatefulness. But there are those who honestly believe you can "love" someone while at the same time condemning them to hell for their actions, and that laws discriminating against gay people are not in fact discriminating against people, but against their so-called "choices" in life. Of course, the end result doesn't look much like love, does it, and anyone on the receiving end of this "love" would be hard-pressed to distinguish it from hatred.

[JuJuBee]

I think they use their religion as a cover for their own hate. As in: "Oh, I don't hate you or make the rules. It's God that says it's wrong!" As to why, some of it might just be uneducated group-think, some of of it is men who are repressing their own sexuality and taking out their frustration on homosexuals, and some people just have a sadistic desire to feel superior to other people.

[LostSamurai]

While they are discriminating against them?

I was thinking about the straight-only prom and the lesbian couple being denied a wedding cake.

In both stories the people claimed that they did not hate them, yet they were only using hateful actions.

My Pagan mind can't understand this.

Why would you constantly deny other people dignity, yet not hate them?

I agree with what's been mentioned already, but I also think it's a matter of 'You are different from the norm so therefore I hate you and I can since God hates gays.'

[crazyforkate]

I think it boils down to the mentality, "love the sinner, hate the sin." Honestly, I think a lot of fundamentalists DO hate the sinner as well as the sin and use it as an excuse for their hatefulness. But there are those who honestly believe you can "love" someone while at the same time condemning them to hell for their actions, and that laws discriminating against gay people are not in fact discriminating against people, but against their so-called "choices" in life. Of course, the end result doesn't look much like love, does it, and anyone on the receiving end of this "love" would be hard-pressed to distinguish it from hatred.

In fact, a lot of people claim it IS love to tell them the "truth". Shirley Phelps-Roper claimed (I think on Tyra Banks) that she loved them more than anyone else in the room because she was being honest.

[valsa]

Because they realize being open about their hate would turn a lot of people off, so they dress it up in doubletalk.

[wtylcf]

In fact, a lot of people claim it IS love to tell them the "truth". Shirley Phelps-Roper claimed (I think on Tyra Banks) that she loved them more than anyone else in the room because she was being honest.

I recall her saying that, but the Phelps certainly allow for some serious cognitive dissonance by thinking that picketing the funeral of a dead gay person is anything but hurtful to the parents. What good could possibly come out of telling these people their child is "damned?" and that God hates them?

As an aside, I'm so happy that three of the Phelps young women have left the cult in the recent past.

[Claddagh]

So many of them are taught that God hates gays and they carry it on. I've told people to show me the exact spot in the bible where it says homosexuality is wrong. So far no one has shown me anything.

My way of thinking is as long as both parties concent, no one is breaking any laws, and they're not hurting anyone it's nobody's business what goes on in another person's private life!

[debrand]

While they are discriminating against them?

I was thinking about the straight-only prom and the lesbian couple being denied a wedding cake.

In both stories the people claimed that they did not hate them, yet they were only using hateful actions.

My Pagan mind can't understand this.

Why would you constantly deny other people dignity, yet not hate them?

Some Christians believe that they are required to love everyone. Unless your definition of love is so watered down that it has no meaning, no one can love everyone.

A person can believe that same sex marriage is a sin can simply not marry their own sex. There is nothing in the New Testament about forcing nonbelievers to live by Christian values.

[Minerva]

Because they think their intentions are more important than their actions.

I don't care if you, personally, inside your head, hate a certain group of people. What matters is that you're saying or doing hateful things. You don't get a cookie for having good intentions when your words and actions are devastating.

Plus even if you don't intend for your words or actions to be hateful, they inspire hate crimes. They lead to people being bullied, attacked, murdered. Out of hate. And it doesn't matter that you, personally, inside your head don't hate someone, when hate is what you are propagating.

*Not aimed at the OP, that was a very general "you".

[Lady]

Some are simply giving lip service, but some Christians really do love gays. In examining Christian fundamentalists we are looking at the extreme conservative of the group; another side does exist.

I recently moved from Chicago to Boston. My Chicago church had the option of becoming officially accepting, as of now they are working on the paper work and have an openly gay pastor. He is a wonderful man. We had a banner for outside the church welcoming everyone from gays to dyslexics to republicans. I'll see if I can find a picture of it.

My current church has a manifesto on their website, "St. Paul...welcomes people regardless of race, nationality, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, family configuration, economic circumstances, or differences in ability, culture, education, or age. We come from...and other towns in eastern Massachusetts."

According to Wikipedia, the following Christian denominations are welcoming of gays:

Affirming Pentecostal Church International

Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists

Ecumenical Catholic Church

Ecumenical Catholic Communion

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Evangelical Anglican Church In America

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Episcopal Church (United States)

Friends General Conference

Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals

International Christian Community Churches

Metropolitan Community Church

Old Catholic Church

Presbyterian Church (USA)

Reformed Anglican Catholic Church

Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA) — a Latter Day Saint denomination

United Church of Christ

United Church of Canada

Unity Church

Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-af..._denominations

For those who are curious, both churches I attended were Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA).

[Letgo]

The more conservative Christian churches believe that homosexuality is a sin. (From the OT..."Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22" and "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13" And the NT..."The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom ... neither fornicators ... nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind ... shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10" You get the picture.) They also believe that a choice has been made to be gay. Therefore, a gay person has consciously chosen to sin. One can hate the act and still love the person who commits the act. I also think that accepting homosexuality is viewed as our society taking a step toward becoming more like Sodom and Gomorrah. Homosexuality is a sin, a choice, and wrong. Period.

I have never had anyone answer why a person would have chosen to be be gay when the AIDS epidemic began. Or explain why a man would choose to sin with another man instead of just sinning with a woman. It would be a whole lot easier to just go for women and avoid discrimination, gossip, and the need to hide your sex life. And, no one has been able to explain just WHY a person would just up and decide to have a same sex relationship, out of the blue. Isn't there usually some initial attraction between sexual partners?

[Minerva]

Some are simply giving lip service, but some Christians really do love gays. In examining Christian fundamentalists we are looking at the extreme conservative of the group; another side does exist.

I recently moved from Chicago to Boston. My Chicago church had the option of becoming officially accepting, as of now they are working on the paper work and have an openly gay pastor. He is a wonderful man. We had a banner for outside the church welcoming everyone from gays to dyslexics to republicans. I'll see if I can find a picture of it.

My current church has a manifesto on their website, "St. Paul...welcomes people regardless of race, nationality, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, family configuration, economic circumstances, or differences in ability, culture, education, or age. We come from...and other towns in eastern Massachusetts."

According to Wikipedia, the following Christian denominations are welcoming of gays:

Affirming Pentecostal Church International

Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists

Ecumenical Catholic Church

Ecumenical Catholic Communion

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Evangelical Anglican Church In America

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Episcopal Church (United States)

Friends General Conference

Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals

International Christian Community Churches

Metropolitan Community Church

Old Catholic Church

Presbyterian Church (USA)

Reformed Anglican Catholic Church

Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA) — a Latter Day Saint denomination

United Church of Christ

United Church of Canada

Unity Church

Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-af..._denominations

For those who are curious, both churches I attended were Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA).

True. Some Christians legitimately don't hate LGBTQ folks (myself included), but a lot of fundamentalist Christians will tell you they don't hate them, then turn around and try to take away their rights, call them pedophiles, break up their families, or even fly to Uganda to push for them to be executed there. They give the rest of us a bad rep, to the point where I read "Christians" in the thread title and it didn't even occur to me that that was a bit of an over-generalization.

[Effie]

Why "love the homosexual, but hate their homosexuality" makes no sense: you can't love a person if you hate an essential part of her/him.

[Ellimenopy]

They think that "love" is a verb, but "hate" isn't. And they don't see the irony in that.

[SpeakNow]

Because they think their intentions are more important than their actions.

I don't care if you, personally, inside your head, hate a certain group of people. What matters is that you're saying or doing hateful things. You don't get a cookie for having good intentions when your words and actions are devastating.

".

^^^This

I'm a special education teacher, and I had a student who didn't have any boundaries in terms of determining appropriate topics of conversation. Sometimes he would walk up to other students and say things like, "Your butt is really beautiful" and "your smile gives me that happy feeling way down low." I taught him that there are some things that are okay to think but not say. I told him that his thoughts are personal and private, but he does not need to share every last one of them. Fundies need that lesson as well.

[Shooey]

A friend of mine who is a Christian posted this on facebook a few days ago. It's an interview with a former lesbian professor from Syracuse University who is now married to a man...a pastor...and get this, she's now a homeschooling mom! I was compelled to watch since the interview was conducted at PHC. Figured it would be amusing at some level, and now it has my mind spinning in so many directions...AHHH! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thoughtlif ... an-mother/

[debrand]

Some are simply giving lip service, but some Christians really do love gays. In examining Christian fundamentalists we are looking at the extreme conservative of the group; another side does exist.

I recently moved from Chicago to Boston. My Chicago church had the option of becoming officially accepting, as of now they are working on the paper work and have an openly gay pastor. He is a wonderful man. We had a banner for outside the church welcoming everyone from gays to dyslexics to republicans. I'll see if I can find a picture of it.

My current church has a manifesto on their website, "St. Paul...welcomes people regardless of race, nationality, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, family configuration, economic circumstances, or differences in ability, culture, education, or age. We come from...and other towns in eastern Massachusetts."

According to Wikipedia, the following Christian denominations are welcoming of gays:

Affirming Pentecostal Church International

Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists

Ecumenical Catholic Church

Ecumenical Catholic Communion

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Evangelical Anglican Church In America

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Episcopal Church (United States)

Friends General Conference

Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals

International Christian Community Churches

Metropolitan Community Church

Old Catholic Church

Presbyterian Church (USA)

Reformed Anglican Catholic Church

Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA) — a Latter Day Saint denomination

United Church of Christ

United Church of Canada

Unity Church

Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-af..._denominations

For those who are curious, both churches I attended were Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA).

Most churches, even those who are against gay marriage, welcome homosexuals. They just want homosexuals to never, ever act on their attraction or they want Jesus to heal homosexuals. I consider that hateful and potentially more harmful. The churches in that list would have to be pro same sex marriage in order for me to consider them nonhateful. I looked up the Restoration Church of Jesus Christ and they do have same sex marriages but I was too lazy to look up the others.

As I wrote before, it is impossible for someone to love everyone. The reason that Christians who say hateful things can claim to love homosexuals is because they believe not wanting someone dead is the same as love. SO they can find homosexuals disgusting, want to take away all their rights and kick their homosexual children out of the house but they 'don't hate gays."

[yewchapel]

Certainly the Episcopal Church, Friends (Quakers) and Lutherans (non-Missouri Synod) are pro marriage equality, and I think the Methodists and Presbyterians too? The Methodists and Presbyterians are in the UK but I am not entirely familiar with the US branches. My own churches in the UK (my church at uni and my church at home) are pro marriage equality too, but it varies within our denomination (Anglican). My churches will hold blessings of same gender marriages, which is all they are legally able to do at the moment.

[So Says I]

Certainly the Episcopal Church, Friends (Quakers) and Lutherans (non-Missouri Synod) are pro marriage equality, and I think the Methodists and Presbyterians too? The Methodists and Presbyterians are in the UK but I am not entirely familiar with the US branches. My own churches in the UK (my church at uni and my church at home) are pro marriage equality too, but it varies within our denomination (Anglican). My churches will hold blessings of same gender marriages, which is all they are legally able to do at the moment.

I'm Episcopalian, and my church, in MD, is accepting of gay clergy and will also hold same gender marriage blessings. I grew up in the United Methodist Church, where my father is still very active to this day, and he's told me that the UMC as a whole has been voting and revoting on its stance on homosexuality since the 1970s. To my knowledge that while people who are gay are welcome to be full members of the church, the official position is still that, "homosexuality is incompatible with Christianity," and a gay person may not serve as clergy. I'm not certain if some UMC churches in the US will perform blessings for same sex marriages or not. I do know that the church I grew up in which has 500+ members, does not. That's one of the main reasons when, as an adult I wanted to find a spiritual home after years of not going to church, I looked elsewhere. Interestingly enough, my current church is just about a block from my old one.

[docmom]

The more conservative Christian churches believe that homosexuality is a sin. (From the OT..."Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22" and "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13" And the NT..."The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom ... neither fornicators ... nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind ... shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10" You get the picture.) They also believe that a choice has been made to be gay. Therefore, a gay person has consciously chosen to sin. One can hate the act and still love the person who commits the act. I also think that accepting homosexuality is viewed as our society taking a step toward becoming more like Sodom and Gomorrah. Homosexuality is a sin, a choice, and wrong. Period.

I have never had anyone answer why a person would have chosen to be be gay when the AIDS epidemic began. Or explain why a man would choose to sin with another man instead of just sinning with a woman. It would be a whole lot easier to just go for women and avoid discrimination, gossip, and the need to hide your sex life. And, no one has been able to explain just WHY a person would just up and decide to have a same sex relationship, out of the blue. Isn't there usually some initial attraction between sexual partners?

Well, according to my very literal reading of the above, you are damned if you are a gay man but being a lesbian is just fine. Seems a little unfair, but that's literally what it says! For what it's worth, the Episcopal Church USA is an open and affirming church. We even have a gay bishop. Heck, I don't even believe and I'm welcome. I think the point that most liberal protestant denominations truly don't hate gays is an important one.

[2xx1xy1JD]

To be fair, "Christians" is a really broad umbrella term.

Some hate gays enough to actively be violent or hateful toward gays, or support those who are.

Some are part of liberal denominations that are genuinely welcoming.

Some may be genuinely committed to an ideology that commands them to love everyone, period, regardless of what they do. This would apply to ANY sinner - people who are genuinely committed to this will say that they condemn murder as a sin, for example, but will still love a murderer. [Think Dead Man Walking.] They see a distinction between the person/soul and their actions. Some of these people may be of the view that everyone is a sinner, to some extent, and therefore all of us need love and forgiveness, and none of us are in a position to morally judge others.

It's a concept that exists far beyond this one issue. It's not an easy commandment to keep properly. Some people find it extremely powerful and transformational. Others say that it is unrealistic/impossible, or that the "love" can seem hollow or patronizing if it is offered on the basis of "you don't really know what you are doing and how much you are sinning". On the other hand, you have critics (including me sometimes), who object to the idea of rushing in to love all unrepentant sinners instead of focusing on their victims and the need to do true repentance.

[yewchapel]

I'm Episcopalian, and my church, in MD, is accepting of gay clergy and will also hold same gender marriage blessings. I grew up in the United Methodist Church, where my father is still very active to this day, and he's told me that the UMC as a whole has been voting and revoting on its stance on homosexuality since the 1970s. To my knowledge that while people who are gay are welcome to be full members of the church, the official position is still that, "homosexuality is incompatible with Christianity," and a gay person may not serve as clergy. I'm not certain if some UMC churches in the US will perform blessings for same sex marriages or not. I do know that the church I grew up in which has 500+ members, does not. That's one of the main reasons when, as an adult I wanted to find a spiritual home after years of not going to church, I looked elsewhere. Interestingly enough, my current church is just about a block from my old one.

Thank you for the clarification!

[kaetrin]

A friend of mine who is a Christian posted this on facebook a few days ago. It's an interview with a former lesbian professor from Syracuse University who is now married to a man...a pastor...and get this, she's now a homeschooling mom! I was compelled to watch since the interview was conducted at PHC. Figured it would be amusing at some level, and now it has my mind spinning in so many directions...AHHH! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thoughtlif ... an-mother/

This has been popping up all over my FB, too, along with various articles. Can you summarize some of the interesting points? I've glanced at the articles but I just can't bring myself to watch an hour-long video interview.

Her name is vaguely familiar but I don't think I actually met her during my PHC years. I wasn't really in with the Presbyterian crowd... my friends were more into dabbling in anglo-catholicism. :-)

[Letgo]

Well, according to my very literal reading of the above, you are damned if you are a gay man but being a lesbian is just fine. Seems a little unfair, but that's literally what it says!

Nope, sorry. Female lovers are also mentioned, I just didn't quote that part-there are too many. "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Romans 1:26 and 27"

Has anyone had any first hand experience of a gay couple attempting to join a conservative church? I have often wondered what the reaction would be in my own church. Other sinners attend church and are welcome. Assume that being gay is a sin. There are other sins mentioned-remarriage after divorce,

adultry, selfishness, gluttony, laziness, gossiping, disrespecting/not honoring one's parents, stealing, envy, lying, anger, greed, and so on. I sin every day in one way or another, yet I am allowed to attend. What about a gay couple?

Re: why do Christians say they don't hate gays?