Shelter's definition of abuse

[Buzzard]

i know. i wish i could have found a way to speak out safely for everyone.they tried counseling when noticed things at school but i would not say anything.i was also afraid to be taken away and they would have.

i would like some help yes. thank you.

PM me your city and I'll get you some numbers.

[ShadowyOne]

here goes.

i have never actually admitted this to anyone but i was abused every single way as a child.i never let any one know because i knew it would cause more trouble and terror to certain other people ie. my grandmother needed me as an emotional crutch-her husband and son abused her horribly-and i felt i could not leave her so got most of it also if i was not very, very careful-did not always work.my mother had enough to deal with with a drunken husband who stole her money to by beer and so could not keep a job.she was on edge as is and i did not want her starting stuff with them for every ones sake.so i got beat by mother because of her temper and because she knew of no other way,emotionally/mentally abused by everyone and indirectly sexually abused by dad who made me sit on his lap as he looked at porn.

i don't really function well.

i knew none of this ws my fault like they say children do-i knew they were all fucked up and did not want to cause more problem by saying anything.

Oh, dear, that's heartbreaking. I would have some contacts in my own region, but if you're not near me, I'd be useless in that regard, so all I can say is *hugs*. I hope you get the resources to heal.

[Hane]

Buzzard and tabitha2,

Because I was a bit upset by the OT's post (and 2xx1xy1jd is someone whose posts I almost always enjoy and agree with), I waited before adding anything to the conversation.

My second husband was emotionally manipulative, and liked backing me into a "logical" corner whenever we disagreed on something, because he KNEW his "logical, rational" engineer's way of seeing things ALWAYS "made more sense" than mine did. Without realizing it, I worked hard to make emotional space between him and my daughter (who was 4 when I met him and 6 when we got married), because she was my kid and I knew I was a better parent to her. I didn't realize how bad things were until she was in college and informed us that she was moving out permanently. One day, when she called me at work, I asked her, "Is it really that bad?" and she replied, "Ask yourself what you'd think of this situation if it were happening to one of your friends. What would you tell her?" Then she said, "Hey, I could have hung in there and jollied him along and pretended to be his pal, but I can't stand the way he treats YOU." That sealed it for me. Around this time, he'd been saying things like, "I wonder where we're going to end up when we retire." That would be an innocuous comment from almost anyone else, but I could tell that he was itching for an excuse to separate me from my family and friends, and it scared the hell out of me.

Rather than repeated episodes of horrific domestic violence, the abuse I suffered was the death by a thousand cuts. I hung in for fourteen years, convinced I'd be a "loser" if I got divorced for a second time.

I remember the last session we had with our marriage counselor. I told him and the counselor that I indeed was filing for divorce, and that "I have no intention of being told what a lousy fuck I am for the rest of my life." The counselor was suddenly struck by how horrible things were, and quietly said, "No one deserves to be told that."

While all this was going on, I had, in close physical proximity, my parents, my sisters, my daughter, and a group of very close, dedicated friends. All of them came together to get me through it.

Now imagine I was the same woman, but WITHOUT those emotional resources to depend on. A DV shelter might wind up my only refuge.

[Palimpsest]

here goes.

i have never actually admitted this to anyone but i was abused every single way as a child.i never let any one know because i knew it would cause more trouble and terror to certain other people ie. my grandmother needed me as an emotional crutch-her husband and son abused her horribly-and i felt i could not leave her so got most of it also if i was not very, very careful-did not always work.my mother had enough to deal with with a drunken husband who stole her money to by beer and so could not keep a job.she was on edge as is and i did not want her starting stuff with them for every ones sake.so i got beat by mother because of her temper and because she knew of no other way,emotionally/mentally abused by everyone and indirectly sexually abused by dad who made me sit on his lap as he looked at porn.

i don't really function well.

i knew none of this ws my fault like they say children do-i knew they were all fucked up and did not want to cause more problem by saying anything.

I am so very sorry. It really was not your fault. As others have said there is help out there. I and others would do our best to find help near you if we knew where you were. I would advise you to take it to PM though. Hugs.

[Buzzard]

DV is a moving target. Its something that is very hard to stick in a box because violence takes so many forms and wears so many masks. What is threatening or insulting to one person may be a joke to another. Its the fact that a partner/family member would find that thing that IS defined as threatening or insulting and abuses that knowledge to torment another that makes it such an insidious form of violence.

We all have the right to be safe in our homes, lives, and families. We have the right to lay our heads down at night without hearing insults, threats, or feeling the throbbing of a wound. As a prosecutor I cannot take back the words, fear, or hurt. My power ends with the key to handcuffs which is often insufficient to offer any kind of healing.

The only advice I can offer to all those suffering is that the sun will set tonight, and will rise again tomorrow. Each day brings new choices, chances, and change. As long as you breathe its not too late to start anew. Its not easy, but few things worth doing ever are. The help is out there is you seek it.

http://www.ncadv.org/protectyourself/GettingHelp.php

[tabitha2]

thanks you all! hearing all this really helps.both mom and dad came from disfunction to one degree or another and it just got got dumped on me. and it ends with me.

[FeministShrew]

I'd love to comment on this, but the whole thread is a huge trigger for me. I'm so emotional right now that I can't put my feelings & thoughts into coherent sentences. Excuse me while I go decide whether to curl up in my bed & cry or workout like a fiend for an hour. :cry:

ETA: I know, I probably shouldn't even have started reading it at all.

[Palimpsest]

Yes, I do actually work in the field, and have had several clients who used these kinds of definitions to get into the domestic violence women's shelter. It may not be a problem in a place with cheaper housing/ shelters with open beds - but in my area housing is hugely expensive, wait lists for subsidized housing are years long (if open at all ) and the regular shelters have waits of months.

I've also worked with many women who were literally fearing for their lives because they had the shit beat out of them and the dv shelter was full

I think that would depend on the particular shelter system set up. For the most part DV shelter locations are kept secret, so screening is done over the phone or at an off-site office. Generally there is either a waiting list of people who meet the basic criteria, or if the place has open beds it is first come/ first served if they meet basic eligibility. Some shelters might have a ranking priority system of some sort, that generally will include things like prioritizing someone with a disability over someone without, for example. Depending on funding sources they might also have other screening priorities ( lives in one city or another, fits the federal definition of homeless, children etc.)

Hopefully, if you had two people walk in /call at the exact same time and one is covered in bruises and the other has a partner taking their money/ joking about rape they will take the woman with the bruises, but I don't think that is how the screening system generally works.

The bolded honestly makes me wonder in which state you live and how and where you work in the DV prevention field. I'd rather you didn't tell us.

The OP was concerned about funding sources -specifically tax monies - being channeled into what she saw as too inclusive definitions. The quoted was from "outreach" materials, and I would definitely argue for those being inclusive.

Look at the posters above who slipped through the cracks. They are the tip of a huge iceberg.

You turned that into people receiving assistance for trivial reasons and complain about that.

In order to receive Federal and State monies non-profits contract with the State (Federal funding is channeled through the States) and have to comply with regulations, "directives," standards of practice, and come up to scratch on program evaluations.

Either your mandated screening tools are inadequate or people are being inadequately trained in their use if people are sneaking through. People "trying it on" is one thing and, yes, it does sometimes seem like a waste of time to screen them out. There is always a struggle for funding. Most programs are on the edge of disaster and many kick and scream against "triage " (because that is what they are) measures that are imposed from above. Those triage measures are vicious. I know. I've been involved in developing a few and it breaks my heart to do so. Generally emotional and spiritual abuse cases are given lower priority. The screens look for immediate risk of physical harm or death.

People actually getting services for which they don't qualify is another thing. You implied that people are getting services to which they should not be entitled where you are.

I'd be the first to say that in most states program evaluations should be conducted way more frequently, but . . . state agencies are also understaffed.

I find it hard to believe that so many "trivial" or "untruthful and exaggerating" people in your neck of the woods are sneaking through the screening tools. If they are, then it might be a good idea to make some noises at your specific agency/place of work and/or blow a few whistles at higher levels rather than make blanket statements on FJ.

[Palimpsest]

Buzzard and tabitha2,

Because I was a bit upset by the OT's post (and 2xx1xy1jd is someone whose posts I almost always enjoy and agree with), I waited before adding anything to the conversation.

My second husband was emotionally manipulative, and liked backing me into a "logical" corner whenever we disagreed on something, because he KNEW his "logical, rational" engineer's way of seeing things ALWAYS "made more sense" than mine did. Without realizing it, I worked hard to make emotional space between him and my daughter (who was 4 when I met him and 6 when we got married), because she was my kid and I knew I was a better parent to her. I didn't realize how bad things were until she was in college and informed us that she was moving out permanently. One day, when she called me at work, I asked her, "Is it really that bad?" and she replied, "Ask yourself what you'd think of this situation if it were happening to one of your friends. What would you tell her?" Then she said, "Hey, I could have hung in there and jollied him along and pretended to be his pal, but I can't stand the way he treats YOU." That sealed it for me. Around this time, he'd been saying things like, "I wonder where we're going to end up when we retire." That would be an innocuous comment from almost anyone else, but I could tell that he was itching for an excuse to separate me from my family and friends, and it scared the hell out of me.

Rather than repeated episodes of horrific domestic violence, the abuse I suffered was the death by a thousand cuts. I hung in for fourteen years, convinced I'd be a "loser" if I got divorced for a second time.

I remember the last session we had with our marriage counselor. I told him and the counselor that I indeed was filing for divorce, and that "I have no intention of being told what a lousy fuck I am for the rest of my life." The counselor was suddenly struck by how horrible things were, and quietly said, "No one deserves to be told that."

While all this was going on, I had, in close physical proximity, my parents, my sisters, my daughter, and a group of very close, dedicated friends. All of them came together to get me through it.

Now imagine I was the same woman, but WITHOUT those emotional resources to depend on. A DV shelter might wind up my only refuge.

Hane, again, I'm so sorry you went through that. What an excellent post and "death by a thousand cuts" is a vivid and accurate description of psychological abuse. Psychological abuse suvivors are still underserserved, although I'm glad you had an educated counselor who finally "got" what you were saying. Yes, a DV shelter might well have ended up your only refuge. I wish there were more resources available for people in your past position.

[Palimpsest]

I'd love to comment on this, but the whole thread is a huge trigger for me. I'm so emotional right now that I can't put my feelings & thoughts into coherent sentences. Excuse me while I go decide whether to curl up in my bed & cry or workout like a fiend for an hour. :cry:

ETA: I know, I probably shouldn't even have started reading it at all.

I'm so sorry. Talk when and if you can. Hugs.

[Mama Mia]

The bolded honestly makes me wonder in which state you live and how and where you work in the DV prevention field. I'd rather you didn't tell us.

The OP was concerned about funding sources -specifically tax monies - being channeled into what she saw as too inclusive definitions. The quoted was from "outreach" materials, and I would definitely argue for those being inclusive.

Look at the posters above who slipped through the cracks. They are the tip of a huge iceberg.

You turned that into people receiving assistance for trivial reasons and complain about that.

In order to receive Federal and State monies non-profits contract with the State (Federal funding is channeled through the States) and have to comply with regulations, "directives," standards of practice, and come up to scratch on program evaluations.

Either your mandated screening tools are inadequate or people are being inadequately trained in their use if people are sneaking through. People "trying it on" is one thing and, yes, it does sometimes seem like a waste of time to screen them out. There is always a struggle for funding. Most programs are on the edge of disaster and many kick and scream against "triage " (because that is what they are) measures that are imposed from above. Those triage measures are vicious. I know. I've been involved in developing a few and it breaks my heart to do so. Generally emotional and spiritual abuse cases are given lower priority. The screens look for immediate risk of physical harm or death.

People actually getting services for which they don't qualify is another thing. You implied that people are getting services to which they should not be entitled where you are.

I'd be the first to say that in most states program evaluations should be conducted way more frequently, but . . . state agencies are also understaffed.

I find it hard to believe that so many "trivial" or "untruthful and exaggerating" people in your neck of the woods are sneaking through the screening tools. If they are, then it might be a good idea to make some noises at your specific agency/place of work and/or blow a few whistles at higher levels rather than make blanket statements on FJ.

I really don't care what you believe. And if I was going to spend more of my time advocating for anything it would certainly not be for even MORE government regulations to bog down and suck the funds out of what little help is out there. I am all too well aware of how federal and state funding streams work, I have to deal with them every single day ( and fyi, some state money flows through the feds, some is contracted directly through one or the other ) some shelters receive their funding from local government, foundations and or donations in addition to or instead of the state or federal government. And if you have a triage screen with a variety of safety factors, sometimes you are going to have people on the lower risk scale getting in, because there happens to be an opening at that time. - and they will still be there when the person comes in the next day in fear for their life. As I am sure you are well aware the vast majority of dv shelters aren't on a night by night basis. I also think those triage screens can be ridiculous in the other direction, one that a program we were affiliated with had to use included questions like "how many times in the last year did your partner pull a gun on you" ... well, um gee he beat the fuck out of me last night, and threatens to blow my brains out daily, but that's in a different column, the last time he actually pulled a gun was a year and a half year ago, so I guess I leave that off - seriously, what the fuck ???

I would strongly advocate for more across the board help and funding for general shelters and housing supports so that people didn't feel the need to go to the dv shelters unless they did have extremely serious issues.

I am not saying there is no such thing as emotional abuse, I am saying that when anything and everything is dumped into the definition it weakens the impact of the terms. I think that particular shelters descriptions most definitely do that. And in areas where there is a shortage of any kind of service due to huge demand - it is also going to lead to people trying to fit themselves into whatever box will lead to not sleeping in their damn car with their kids again.

[RachelB]

here goes.

i have never actually admitted this to anyone but i was abused every single way as a child.i never let any one know because i knew it would cause more trouble and terror to certain other people ie. my grandmother needed me as an emotional crutch-her husband and son abused her horribly-and i felt i could not leave her so got most of it also if i was not very, very careful-did not always work.my mother had enough to deal with with a drunken husband who stole her money to by beer and so could not keep a job.she was on edge as is and i did not want her starting stuff with them for every ones sake.so i got beat by mother because of her temper and because she knew of no other way,emotionally/mentally abused by everyone and indirectly sexually abused by dad who made me sit on his lap as he looked at porn.

i don't really function well.

i knew none of this ws my fault like they say children do-i knew they were all fucked up and did not want to cause more problem by saying anything.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. And I totally understand fearing that saying anything at the time would make it worse. You have so little leverage as a child in that kind of situation.

*offers whatever expression of comfort and sympathy is most welcome to you*

[meda]

The OP is someone I have respect for also, and I realize she has valuable insight because of her work in family law. However, she has also been blessed to have a a caring, egalitarian partner, and the ability to earn a living if things went south.

Rather than nit picking about what is and is not abuse, and critiquing outreach materials which are intended to educate people who may not realize they are in abusive situations, which to me comes across ascondescending, another option would be to have some empathy. It's a shit state of affairs when funding for such programs are so limited that people need to have their abusive situations critiqued in order to be worthy of help.

[Palimpsest]

The OP is someone I have respect for also, and I realize she has valuable insight because of her work in family law. However, she has also been blessed to have a a caring, egalitarian partner, and the ability to earn a living if things went south.

Rather than nit picking about what is and is not abuse, and critiquing outreach materials which are intended to educate people who may not realize they are in abusive situations, which to me comes across ascondescending, another option would be to have some empathy. It's a shit state of affairs when funding for such programs are so limited that people need to have their abusive situations critiqued in order to be worthy of help.

I can certainly agree with this. It really is a complete shit state of affairs when funding is so limited that we have to nit-pick degrees of abuse. There is a huge need for more funding in all areas. And more community education to identify potentially abusive situations, and more and better options for early intervention and prevention so that people do not have to access shelters as a last resort.

Mrs S2004, I understand your frustration but I don't think diluting the definitions of abuse in outreach materials is the answer. We may have to agree to differ on that point. Your initial posts on this thread made my blood boil because you appeared not to understand emotional/psychological abuse, but perhaps our outlooks are closer than you/I think. Screening is brutal but our tools can always be improved. The solution is more funding for those in need so that screening can more accurate in channeling people to the right services. If they exist in this imperfect world.

Like it or not, there will always be a need for program evaluation, whatever the funding source(s).

[2xx1xy1JD]

so...where does man being abused go? if his wife continually berates or is abuses him any of these ways, what does he do for help.being dead serious here.

It's a problem. We lack shelters for men that are designed to accommodate children. General homeless shelters lack services for domestic violence, and are often unsafe.

I've had multiple cases where men have been subject to serious attacks by a wife (eg. being stabbed with children present and seriously injured or nearly killed, being stalked and having ex cause a car accident, with children present in the car), only to have social workers or judges assume that THEY were abusive because they can't be bothered to properly look at the actual evidence.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm sorry if this was upsetting/triggering for some posters.

I'll try to respond to some of the points raised, and give some context to my comments (while being vague enough to perserve confidentiality).

1. In my jurisdiction, "violence or abuse" committed against a spouse, children's parent or any child is a factor which can be considered in custody/access cases. Naturally, if a woman comes to court, says that she was abused and that she's getting help from this shelter, it is a powerful statement which a court takes very seriously.

I've had cases in the past where shelter assistant was truly invaluable. My first case, for example, involved a woman who had been taken to the shelter by police, and still had finger marks from her husband on her neck. In that case, and others like it, the shelter was able to put the woman in touch with me ASAP, we did up emergency court papers and got a court order for temporary custody, police assistance, exclusive possession of the house and a restraining order the same day that we filed the papers. In plain English - we were able to get police to enter the home, kick out the guy, get the kids, and have her move back in and change the locks, all without any notice to the guy.

On the other hand, we have situations where a woman will come to court, say that she is "abused" without giving a lot of details, mention the involvement of the shelter, and the court doesn't really have much information to go on when they are asked to make an emergency order. This particular procedure was designed for situations where there is a true risk to safety, which is so serious that it justifies skipping over normal procedures and allowing the other party a chance to respond.

2. If you get enough cases where "abuse" is claimed, and it later becomes clear that what was going on is more accurately described as "shitty relationship", you get a "boy who cried wolf" situation where the courts no longer react to the term abuse. This poses a risk for those who are in situations that threaten their safety.

3. Shelters need to take safety precautions very, very seriously. Some of these precautions, however, pose difficulties in family court cases. Shelters never reveal their exact locations, which can be a challenge when it comes to serving court documents or arranging access. Some also have policies of not maintaining notes of counseling sessions, or not revealing the surnames of counselors. This became an issue in a recent case - how on earth do you introduce evidence of a letter or conversation with someone who only provides their first name? Potentially valuable evidence is lost.

4. Shelter workers hear only one side of the story. I have had situations where women have said "I learned that I was abused, my counselor told me so". In some cases, that's a valuable service, and somebody really did need to point out that having to ask permission to leave the home, never having any access at all to money, being ordered around, etc. are not normal behaviors to be tolerated. In some other cases, though, the counselors are hearing only one side of a troubled relationship, not getting information about the other side at all, and then drawing a conclusion based on partial information and putting on a label that has power. Sometimes, the problem is not abuse at all, but rather extreme differences in personality styles. I'll get this in cases where 1 person is more emotional, while the other is more logical/rational. Eventually, it can morph into "my partner has uncontrollable outbursts out of nowhere and is mentally unstable" or "my partner is a cold-hearted control-freak who intimidates me".

5. Sexual abuse is one helluva serious allegation. It SHOULD be taken seriously. Again, though, there is a real difference between sexual dysfunction in a marriage, and sexual abuse that requires the full strength of the legal remedies available. Withholding sex can be a sign of a really bad marriage, but I will not label it as sexual abuse. Similarly, I have seen cases where women alleged that children were at risk of sexual abuse based on nothing more than a casual sexual joke or the fact that the man viewed (adult) pornography.

6. Ongoing criticism, in some cases, can be an indication of verbal/emotional abuse. It can also be a very subjective thing. One partner may be particularly sensitive to ANY criticism, the other may not even realize the extent to which they are being critical. For example, we see fundie guys who seen to view ANY occasion that a women dares to do anything aside from giving whole-hearted support as her being a sinful, critical, nagging bitch.

7. Above all - I think some of my frustration comes from the fact that different bad situations demand different responses. Where there is a safety risk, that is top priority, and the resources and tools need to be there in order to ensure that there isn't a tragedy. In some cases, the only ethical response in to tell someone "get out now". In other cases, though, someone may need to acknowledge their own wrongdoing (no, it's certainly not nice to call a woman a crack whore, but if you are in fact stealing the money to feed your crack addiction, and then hooking to get money in a way that exposes your young children to your activities, and then failing to take care of your kids because you are too high, someone may call you that name, and name-calling doesn't justify you trying to kill them). If the issue isn't abusive intent, but rather extreme personalities differences and lack of skills to deal with that, a label of "abuse" does not help. It's more useful for a counselor to show that the partner acts a certain way in all situations (always neat/messy, always obsessed with time/late, always quiet/loud, always logical/emotional, always worried about every cent/spending every dollar), and that it's not something that they are doing specifically to be abusive. If extreme personality differences can't be resolved, it's not a reason to deny someone rights to their children.

[Mama Mia]

I'm sorry if this was upsetting/triggering for some posters.

I'll try to respond to some of the points raised, and give some context to my comments (while being vague enough to perserve confidentiality).

1. In my jurisdiction, "violence or abuse" committed against a spouse, children's parent or any child is a factor which can be considered in custody/access cases. Naturally, if a woman comes to court, says that she was abused and that she's getting help from this shelter, it is a powerful statement which a court takes very seriously.

I've had cases in the past where shelter assistant was truly invaluable. My first case, for example, involved a woman who had been taken to the shelter by police, and still had finger marks from her husband on her neck. In that case, and others like it, the shelter was able to put the woman in touch with me ASAP, we did up emergency court papers and got a court order for temporary custody, police assistance, exclusive possession of the house and a restraining order the same day that we filed the papers. In plain English - we were able to get police to enter the home, kick out the guy, get the kids, and have her move back in and change the locks, all without any notice to the guy.

On the other hand, we have situations where a woman will come to court, say that she is "abused" without giving a lot of details, mention the involvement of the shelter, and the court doesn't really have much information to go on when they are asked to make an emergency order. This particular procedure was designed for situations where there is a true risk to safety, which is so serious that it justifies skipping over normal procedures and allowing the other party a chance to respond.

2. If you get enough cases where "abuse" is claimed, and it later becomes clear that what was going on is more accurately described as "shitty relationship", you get a "boy who cried wolf" situation where the courts no longer react to the term abuse. This poses a risk for those who are in situations that threaten their safety.

3. Shelters need to take safety precautions very, very seriously. Some of these precautions, however, pose difficulties in family court cases. Shelters never reveal their exact locations, which can be a challenge when it comes to serving court documents or arranging access. Some also have policies of not maintaining notes of counseling sessions, or not revealing the surnames of counselors. This became an issue in a recent case - how on earth do you introduce evidence of a letter or conversation with someone who only provides their first name? Potentially valuable evidence is lost.

4. Shelter workers hear only one side of the story. I have had situations where women have said "I learned that I was abused, my counselor told me so". In some cases, that's a valuable service, and somebody really did need to point out that having to ask permission to leave the home, never having any access at all to money, being ordered around, etc. are not normal behaviors to be tolerated. In some other cases, though, the counselors are hearing only one side of a troubled relationship, not getting information about the other side at all, and then drawing a conclusion based on partial information and putting on a label that has power. Sometimes, the problem is not abuse at all, but rather extreme differences in personality styles. I'll get this in cases where 1 person is more emotional, while the other is more logical/rational. Eventually, it can morph into "my partner has uncontrollable outbursts out of nowhere and is mentally unstable" or "my partner is a cold-hearted control-freak who intimidates me".

5. Sexual abuse is one helluva serious allegation. It SHOULD be taken seriously. Again, though, there is a real difference between sexual dysfunction in a marriage, and sexual abuse that requires the full strength of the legal remedies available. Withholding sex can be a sign of a really bad marriage, but I will not label it as sexual abuse. Similarly, I have seen cases where women alleged that children were at risk of sexual abuse based on nothing more than a casual sexual joke or the fact that the man viewed (adult) pornography.

6. Ongoing criticism, in some cases, can be an indication of verbal/emotional abuse. It can also be a very subjective thing. One partner may be particularly sensitive to ANY criticism, the other may not even realize the extent to which they are being critical. For example, we see fundie guys who seen to view ANY occasion that a women dares to do anything aside from giving whole-hearted support as her being a sinful, critical, nagging bitch.

7. Above all - I think some of my frustration comes from the fact that different bad situations demand different responses. Where there is a safety risk, that is top priority, and the resources and tools need to be there in order to ensure that there isn't a tragedy. In some cases, the only ethical response in to tell someone "get out now". In other cases, though, someone may need to acknowledge their own wrongdoing (no, it's certainly not nice to call a woman a crack whore, but if you are in fact stealing the money to feed your crack addiction, and then hooking to get money in a way that exposes your young children to your activities, and then failing to take care of your kids because you are too high, someone may call you that name, and name-calling doesn't justify you trying to kill them). If the issue isn't abusive intent, but rather extreme personalities differences and lack of skills to deal with that, a label of "abuse" does not help. It's more useful for a counselor to show that the partner acts a certain way in all situations (always neat/messy, always obsessed with time/late, always quiet/loud, always logical/emotional, always worried about every cent/spending every dollar), and that it's not something that they are doing specifically to be abusive. If extreme personality differences can't be resolved, it's not a reason to deny someone rights to their children.

QFT I agree with everything you said and think the bolded are particularly important.

[lilith]

http://www.yellowbrickhouse.org/english/about/what-is-abuse/

Part of me doesn't want to snark on this, since this is a shelter in my area that serves an important role, but I had some concerns after reading this.

The problem, to me, is that this definition includes stuff that it truly bad and deserves attention, and lumps it in with other stuff that may indicate a bad relationship, but not "OMG go to a shelter" abuse.

Issues I have:

- no recognition that women can engage in domestic violence against men

- "ongoing criticism" and "passive-aggressive control" are described as emotional abuse

- "withholding sex" and "demeaning women sexually through jokes" are described as sexual abuse

- "degrading spiritual beliefs" is described as spiritual abuse

Now, I'm not saying that these are great things to do. I'm just really concerned about taking some really broad and somewhat common behaviors, and sticking the abuse label on them. After all, this is a place which is getting government funding and private donations to help victims of abuse. To my mind, that should mean something more than "husband won't sleep with her" or "husband made a snarky comment about fundie beliefs".

Those broader signs of abuse are important to include because they can help women see that they actually are victims of abuse, not just "having a fight" or "going through a rough point in the relationship".

I minimised the violence in my marriage for years (he doesn't hit me every day, its only when he's really upset, I have to stop making him angry, etc) until I saw one of those checklists that shows non physical signs of abuse, things like isolation and financial control and extreme jealousy and constant belittling, and the cycle of abuse. The fact that my ex husband ticked nearly all the boxes is what made me realise that the relationship was actually abusive, not just troubled, and made me take real steps to get out instead of holding out futile hope that things would change.

So I, obviously, think that including all the symptoms often found in abusive relationships is an important way to help women (and men too) understand the realities of their situation.