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Manhood, the film


Maggie Mae

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Let me preface this by saying that Doug Phillips is a tool.

visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2013/02/10674/

2 fathers. 2 sons. 1 mission: To encourage their 16-year-old sons to become men in an age of emasculated young men who fritter away their time playing video games, watching mindless, soul-killing television shows and having relations with any willing female.

I too believe that many teens spend too much time playing video games. However, that doesn't make them "emasculated." I'd like some examples of these so called "mindless, soul-killing television shows" as well, as I understand that Doug Phillips (the tool) doesn't watch TV and therefore is relying on hearsay.

These fathers tasked their sons, over the course of two weeks, to accomplish physical tasks like canoeing a river, sharpening axe blades, chopping down a tree in the forest for two hours in 108-degree heat, climbing rocks, and hiking for a taxing 21 hours until 2:00 a.m. Throughout the course of the physical challenge, the young men were very honest about how surprised they were by the tasks, how nervous they were and how difficult it was — which was great fodder for several hearty chuckles.

I've canoed rivers. I've sharpened axes. I've chopped firewood in negative temperatures. I've climbed rocks. I've hiked from sun up to sunset. Does that mean I am a man?

I also play video games. And I know plenty of people (both men and women) who also manage to balance a life outside with enjoyable indoor activities.

I am so confused by these people. Why is everything so black and white? Why can we not talk about how to be balanced?

If I believed in a God that created people, I would believe that God gave us the ability to do various things. Some people are meant to be doctors or nurses. Some people have a gift for entertaining others. If God created all people, then he also created the people who don't believe in him. It is possible to still enjoy what others have to offer even if they don't believe the same things you believe. It is possible to enjoy cooking and have a penis. It's possible to watch a Hollywood film and appreciate the hard work and effort that went into it, even if not one of the people who created the sets, managed the lighting, acted the roles, wrote the script, did hair and makeup believe in God.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

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Maggie Mae,

Obviously, I totally agree. And this is one of my biggest philosophical gripes with gender-essentialism: it is fundamentally reductionist and I oppose any definition that reduces human beings to two-dimensional stereotypes and stifles the diversity that comes naturally to us. The more diversity and freedom of choice we embrace as a society, the happier we will be, instead of forcing round pegs into square holes.

According to Doug, I must be super-manly because I also enjoy hiking and skiing and playing (masculine) video games and playing electric guitar. But wait! I also enjoy cooking, baking, housekeeping and sewing. Oh my, the identity-crisis, what will I do?!?

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WTF?? My daughter and her fiance are active in the Society for Creative Anachronism. They fight like warriors of old...not an AR15 in sight. They go out on sparring weekends with a group of friends--male and female. Taught em some interesting survival skill. She's not grown hair on her chest or anything...and when they aren't warrioring, they are going to college, watching netflix and playing....video games!

Doug Phillips is a tool and so are the makers of this documentary.

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My husband loves playing video games and watching movies. He hates hiking, biking, camping, really just about everything done outdoors with the exception of swimming. Does that make him less of a man? Of course not. It simply makes him a person whose interests differ from Doug's (who is a tool).

Edited to fix riffle.

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Guest Anonymous

Hey, I'm new here.

I just want to know what is Doug's problem? is he that egotistical and probably homoerotic about men?

Cause the way he talks about manhood in his speeches or sermons sounds very Freudian.

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I like video games and horror movies. My husband and I have a goal of segments of the Appalachian trail this summer. Funny, I don't feel manly.

Being an adult-either a man or a woman-involves being able to handle responsibilities, be respectful toward others and act in an ethical manner. It does not involve physical skills. Athletic ability has nothing to do with adulthood.

I can certainly understand wanting to be challenged though, however, I wonder at the safety of some of Doug's activities. Why hike for 21 hours straight? Didn't they rest? And it is stupid to chop down a tree in 108 degree heat.

Some of these fundies detest video games. Although too much of anything can be damaging, video games can have story lines about nobility, honor and sacrifice. The problem isn't with video games but with achieving a balance in life

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I've canoed rivers. I've sharpened axes. I've chopped firewood in negative temperatures. I've climbed rocks. I've hiked from sun up to sunset. Does that mean I am a man?

I also play video games. And I know plenty of people (both men and women) who also manage to balance a life outside with enjoyable indoor activities.

I am so confused by these people. Why is everything so black and white? Why can we not talk about how to be balanced?

Balance is a dangerous lie from the devil. Sin is sin. Watching TV is a sin if you're a Real Man, and sharpening axes is a sin if you're a Real Woman. I'm sure that's true, because the Bible says so. I'm pretty sure.

Just yesterday, I went on an outdoor adventure with some of my girl friends, and our boyfriends stayed home, drank beer, and apparently talked about the fact that they didn't want to go with us because we were better than them, and we'd have to wait for them all the time. All of our boyfriends are actually very manly, active guys and are stronger than we are, by quite a bit. But it doesn't make them better at everything, even when it comes to the outdoor realm. I can cook, I can sew, and I can also beat guys at (some) acts of physical prowess. Not because I'm some uber-feminist who wakes up at 6 am to pump iron and take steroids, either. It's because... I like all these things, and I think that if God made me any way, he made me like this: strong in the ways I am strong, with the capacity to be stronger as I challenge my mind and my body.

But I forgot, thinking that way is sinful. I really should just stay at home and bake my man a pie, because that way he'll gain extra weight for the glory of God and traditional gender roles.

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Guest Anonymous

What does Vision Forum believe in? I read they are a mishmash of Patriarchal Calvinism and Familial Idolatry.

I read that they want their daughters to be submissive and virginal and behave like a Pollyanna/Ingenue

Their wives, from what I heard, behave in ways that remind me of the stereotypical Mammy or Angel of the House

Yet I hear that the Botkin sisters can tagalong with their brothers on their journeys, I don't get it? what is their ideal society? are their women suppose to be indoorsy housefraus or what?

I have a pretty good idea of their ideal man, which is very much homoerotic and androcentric and basically 'Bromantic'

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I think the fact that they felt the need to make and promote a film called "Manhood" really says it all about Dougie and his followers. They have completely descended into self parody.

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I'm confused about this. Video gaming and TV watching is juvenile but hiking until 2am and inducing hyperthermia via chopping wood is "manly"? I assumed fundies hated video games and TV for their content and because it's nonproductive. The latter part I understand. Both are time wasters but fun and good ways for some to relax. Otherwise, the physical activities suggested are no different than electronic entertainments...i.e they serve no purpose other than as entertainment/relaxation tools.

You know what would be manly and adult? Preparing for jobs, getting jobs, working. You know what else? Training boys to be good husbands. What makes for good husbands? Someone that knows how to treat women well, that knows how to care for children, and that can offer helping hands to the running of the home. Maybe they should teach sons to cook and clean after themselves, maybe even change a few diapers? It just seems like all this talk about emasculation and manly activities serves up puerile stereotypes with no bearing on reality.

Boys don't become men by chopping wood and canoeing. It's certainly not a selling point for girls, not even fundie girls. When's the last time a girl thought a guy is husband material because he can hike and chop wood? Hm, maybe in 1870. These days, most girls, and probably fundie girls too, think guys should NOT have mommy washing their clothes and cleaning their room. I bet most girls would be impressed with guys who can change the oil or cook pasta. Hey, how come Dougie doesn't offer manly retreat on how to care for home? cook? applying for colleges and "manly" professions?

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The narrator for the Manhood clip apparently attended Doug (Phillips who is a tool)'s Graduate School of Hyperbole. I laughed until I balled, I mean, bawled.

edited because there's supposed to be a space between words

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The narrator for the Manhood clip apparently attended Doug (Phillips who is a tool)'s Graduate School of Hyperbole. I laughed until I balled, I mean, bawled.

edited because there's supposed to be a space between words

Me too!!! I also think, based on the quality of the trailer, that this was filmed on someone's cell phone!!!

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I've gone door to door in worse than 108 degree heat, and people asked me what the fuck we were thinking. (They also gave out water bottles liberally, which was nice.) I know some people actually fainted, and all we were doing was walking. Which yes takes a lot of effort, but not as much effort as chopping down a tree. That sounds really dangerous for someone who is not used to physical activity.

It is also extremely unwise to go on 21 mile hikes if you are not even used to walking 5. Does Dougie the Tool NOT know that you're supposed to build your body up for this sort of thing? The Bible says that we are supposed to take care of our bodies, to build them up and not tear them down. Doing these things without working up to it is NOT being manly, it is tearing down the body that God gave you and therefore a sin. But of course, that's just because these people don't read their bibles.

Well, I take it back, they DO read their bibles: the parts that tell women to submit, the parts that say gays/lesbians are bad, and the parts that say that hell is a bad scary place.

Compassion? Mercy? Taking care of your body? Women in leadership roles? No, apparently they don't read those parts...

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This guy, Chuck Holton, and his book "Making Men" is almost as big a TOOL as Dougie!!

cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2011/December/Making-Men-Teaching-Sons-to-Grow-Up-Well-/

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So basically, Doug is upset that other kids are having fun with their friends and getting laid, and his aren't. OK.

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It is also extremely unwise to go on 21 mile hikes if you are not even used to walking 5. ..

Worse. It wasn't 21 miles it was 21 HOURS. :o Why would anyone need to hike for so long? What is the point? Most hikers that I know use a lot of common sense and take precautions.

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So basically, Doug is upset that other kids are having fun with their friends and getting laid, and his aren't. OK.

That is it. And he is trying to prove that Vision Forum youth are more masculine and better than those lazy, fun loving, women getting outsiders.

The song, Men in Tights is running through my head.

We roam around the forest looking for fights.

We're men... we're men in tights.

We rob from the rich and give to the poor, that's right.

We may look like sissys,

but watch what you say or else we'll put out your lights. (bang)

We're men... we're men in tights

always on guard defending the peoples rights.

(Can can music)

la la la la la la la la la, la la la la la la la la la...

lalalalalalala (repeat).

We're men..manly men

We're men in tights, yes (with lisp)

We roam around the forest looking for fights.

We're men, we're men in tights

We rob from the rich and give to the poor that's right.

We may look like pansies,

but don't get us wrong or else we'll put out your lights. (bang)

We're men... we're men in tights (tight tights)

Always on guard defending the peoples rights

When your in a fix just call for the men in tights.

We're butch.

More lyrics: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/c/chloe/

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I began reading the entry, but stopped after the first sentence:

I just came from having watched Manhood.

Does he have any idea what he just wrote? :shock:

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I began reading the entry, but stopped after the first sentence:

Does he have any idea what he just wrote? :shock:

:laughing-rolling::laughing-rolling::laughing-rolling::laughing-rolling::laughing-rolling:

ETA: I just watched the trailer. It looks like something you'd see on SNL.

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Worse. It wasn't 21 miles it was 21 HOURS. :o Why would anyone need to hike for so long? What is the point? Most hikers that I know use a lot of common sense and take precautions.

I had made the assumption that the "21 hour hike" was not 21 hours of active hiking, rather a few hours after a leisurely breakfast, then a prayer break/costume change, some walking, a nice lunch & costume change with some lecturing from Doug, maybe some more slow hiking, water break, snack, walking, supper, hike, set up camp, etc. I hope they were somewhere far north in summer though, if they arrived and set up camp at 2.a.m. Setting up camp in the dark sucks, even when you know what you are doing, are familiar with your equipment and the location, and have planned who does what.

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Please tell me I'm not the only person who thinks that "Manhood: the film" sounds like a gay porno.

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^Yeah that.

Ahh, the irony of Doug's playacting in front of a camera trying to convince us that the screen is a tool of the Devil.

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I began reading the entry, but stopped after the first sentence:

Does he have any idea what he just wrote? :shock:

The like button is totally inadequate for this post. :lol:

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Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Men! Everywhere Men!

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