Jump to content
IGNORED

Pope to resign? Feb 28


Librul

Recommended Posts

I'd forgotten JPII had gone everywhere. JPI didn't do much except internal wrangling, he barely had the keys before he died/was killed (delete as per personal view).

I don't know anything before him, though.

There was Pope Paul prior to JPI but I don't remember him traveling, just some guy who was holed up in the Vatican. JPII was a real breath of fresh air as he was younger, had a lot of energy and transformed the role of pope as an active presence in the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 170
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I wonder if they'd go with a *gasp* American... to try and gain a hold of the church here.

Here's an article about that possibility: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/11/16926292-us-will-have-unprecedented-voice-in-electing-new-pope?lite.

So there's the idea that a Pope from the U.S. would be perceived as too grabby and unrepresentative. I also think that it's unlikely to be a Pope from the U.S. because an American cardinal would always have to answer questions about what he was doing during the time period of the pedophilia travesties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: the bolded, this is also how it looks to me, that popes have leeway to decide what they want to do with their own papacy. For example, JPII traveled widely (as opposed to his pedecessors) and improved relations with other religious groups among the many things he did.

Yes, it does vary. JPII was very active politically in the early years, but more in the area of the fall of communism in Europe and much less on Social Justice, especially in Latin America. He was also comparatively young then and travelled widely.

Popes also have to pray and do the usual offices, have the odd Papal Audience with visiting dignitaries or the devout common folk (usually tickets are sold for the latter), get propped up on the balcony every Wednesday for a public audience, and minimally perform at Easter and Christmas when healthy enough. They also write sermons and meditations, write or sign off on Papal Directives and perhaps remove the odd (very high-level) excommunication -- if the excommunicatee has recanted and repented properly. That doesn't happen very often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand why someone would not want to be pope and I can understand resigning (saying it was for health) because you just don't want the job. I think it is silly to be in a position until death because how many people are 100% healthy the day before they die.

I was able to meet Pope John Paul II twice, once in the US and once when was traveling. My father's good friend growing up became a priest and later was a clerk in the vatician. Even if the Pope is more of a figure head, he is still being followed my close to a billion catholics from so many countires/languages/different cultures. The pope has no privacy, and most everything is wirtten and transalted for him so he can't even speak his own words.

I was also able to meet the Mormon prophet after a flood ruined our subdivision. Mormon prophet seem like a cushy job compared to pope. I know there is no comparsion in the size or impact between the LDS and Catholic churches worldwide but it just seemd like the mormon prophet got to have somewhat of a normal life, and the Pope was carried around like a God and had little real meaningful interaction with people..everyone just wanted a prayer or to just touch his hand like he was an idol. I just flashback to my first time meeting the pope as a child in Boston and the crowd was like no mob I have ever been in (and I went to my share of crazy metal concerts in the 80's). People were screaming in the pouring rain for him to touch a rosary or thier baby. I was up near the stage and I was so unfortable I can't imagine how the Pope could take this day after day.

The next Pope I think is going to come from a country outside of Europe(not the US). I feel like they are going to go with a native spainish speaker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JPII came to my area (literally my neighborhood) as part of a visit to the US early in his papacy. I didn't even try to see him, as much as I would have liked to, because the crowds were just impossible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd forgotten JPII had gone everywhere. JPI didn't do much except internal wrangling, he barely had the keys before he died/was killed (delete as per personal view).

I don't know anything before him, though.

John Paul II was Pope for so long that I guess he is the only Pope many people remember other than Benedict.

Had John Paul I lived for longer than 33 days as Pope, I think we would be seeing a very different church today. He had some fairly radical ideas. When he died (or was murdered, IMO) and JPII took over many were deeply disappointed. When Benedict was elected, dismayed would be a better word.

If anything, John Paul II took a step backwards and was conservative in his approach to social justice issues and Church involvement compared to the good old days of John XXIII and Paul VI both of whom were very active in their days. Vatican II anyone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You all ever hear the Prophecy of the Popes by Saint Malachy. He said Pope Benedict XVI would be the last. It will be interesting what happens. The book is called the Last Pope by the way. Here is the wikipedia about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

My first thought was of a Bible Baptist Church I used to attend where they would preach, with absolute conviction, that the anti-Christ would be a pope (they had a hard-on for Catholic hate.) For some reason they were certain "this polak" (their descriptor) was not the anti-Christ because he was not hard core Catholic enough (remembering that Catholics, or "the papists", sometimes with an even more derogatory adjective thrown in there, are the root of all evil.) If a more traditional/conservative pope is elected, those folks are going to be pissing their pants in excitement over the end times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll be praying that the next pope has a revelation that it's perfectly all right for good Catholic couples to use birth control. Not holding my breath, though.

Most Catholics I know have had a direct revelation that it's perfectly acceptable to use birth control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Paul II was Pope for so long that I guess he is the only Pope many people remember other than Benedict.

Had John Paul I lived for longer than 33 days as Pope, I think we would be seeing a very different church today. He had some fairly radical ideas. When he died (or was murdered, IMO) and JPII took over many were deeply disappointed. When Benedict was elected, dismayed would be a better word.

If anything, John Paul II took a step backwards and was conservative in his approach to social justice issues and Church involvement compared to the good old days of John XXIII and Paul VI both of whom were very active in their days. Vatican II anyone?

I agree with the bolded. The Yallop book I mentioned earlier, although the author is definitely not a serious historian, was very informative about how radical JPI's ideas were. This radicalism is what makes murder most likely to me.

I wonder why the cardinals elected him in the first place? Did they think he was traditionalist?

Edited for riffles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more I think about this, the more I might be miffed if I were an observant Catholic. After all, he got this job from the Holy Spirit via the College of Cardinals. Who is he now to tell that same Holy Spirit that he doesn't feel well enough to continue? Does it not suggest a lack of faith on his part that Father/Son/Holy Spirit is going to provide him with what it takes to keep leading the church?

I guess they aren't making popes like they used to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frankly, I think he made the right decision. He's ancient and in pretty bad health and in a very stressful job, and does any Catholic really want another papacy ending in a basically comatose pope being dragged all over the place until he finally dies? I think most Catholics, at least most Catholics I know, realize the Holy Spirit thing is metaphorical and just means he is supposed to lead the church. My personal feelings about his conservative policies aside, as a human, I think it's good that he gets to retire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the bolded. The Yallop book I mentioned earlier, although the author is definitely not a serious historian, was very informative about how radical JPI's ideas were. This radicalism is what makes murder most likely to me.

I wonder why the cardinals elected him in the first place? Did they think he was traditionalist?

Edited for riffles.

I haven't read Yallop although I should look out for the book. :) I have read John Cornwell, who concluded that JPI was not murdered but, to me, there was just something way too convenient about his death.

IIRC, JPI was a compromise candidate as there were two major factions who couldn't agree. He was thought to be charming, malleable and not a major intellectual. He surprised everyone because he came out of the gate with some radical and liberal ideas. and pretty much turned the Vatican on its head in a couple of weeks. I was volunteering with Pax Christi (oh so liberal and they didn't mind that I wasn't a Catholic)) back then and people were over the moon with joy at JPI's attitude and statements. Then boom, he was dead. It was very fishy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ladies and Gentlemen! Step right up and place your bets on who will be the new pope!: http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-b ... pe-betting

Brilliant find! If I'd were to guess I'd have said 50% likelihood of an Italian, and 25% each likelihood of an African or South American because that is where the Catholic Church is growing the fastest.

I'm surprised to see the Canadian guy so high. I'd have thought a Canadian Cardinal would be tainted by his closeness to those out of countrol Americans. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brilliant find! If I'd were to guess I'd have said 50% likelihood of an Italian, and 25% each likelihood of an African or South American because that is where the Catholic Church is growing the fastest.

I'm surprised to see the Canadian guy so high. I'd have thought a Canadian Cardinal would be tainted by his closeness to those out of countrol Americans. ;)

I like that Richard Dawkins is at 666/1 odds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like that Richard Dawkins is at 666/1 odds.

I didn't read down that far. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frankly, I think he made the right decision. He's ancient and in pretty bad health and in a very stressful job, and does any Catholic really want another papacy ending in a basically comatose pope being dragged all over the place until he finally dies? I think most Catholics, at least most Catholics I know, realize the Holy Spirit thing is metaphorical and just means he is supposed to lead the church. My personal feelings about his conservative policies aside, as a human, I think it's good that he gets to retire.

I suppose. It's just a sign of how wonky the church is that they sweetly defer to an ailing old man but could give a rat's arse about the troubles of a young woman whose sanity depends on aborting a fetus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like that Richard Dawkins is at 666/1 odds.

I'm surprised he's more likely than Bono, who is tied with Father Dougal Maguire of Craggy Island. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder what Abigail has to say about all this. :doh:

Damn it, it's closed for Lent! Of course it would be.

abigails-alcove.blogspot.com/2013/02/pre-lent-prayer-routine-questions.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn it, it's closed for Lent! Of course it would be.

abigails-alcove.blogspot.com/2013/02/pre-lent-prayer-routine-questions.html

Goddamnit! Let's hope she can't keep her thoughts to herself and breaks down and blogs. Oh, please, Abigail!! Pretty pleeeeease!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goddamnit! Let's hope she can't keep her thoughts to herself and breaks down and blogs. Oh, please, Abigail!! Pretty pleeeeease!!!

Remember that Lent doesn't start until Wednesday- she still has a day and a half to comment (rant?) before she has to log off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Abigail's FB:

Just found out our Pope resigned. How sad. I'll miss him!

"Our Pope?" Reminds me of when I'm taking to my brother and I'll refer to "my mom and dad." My brother responds, "They're my mom and dad too, GeoBQn."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Abigail's FB:

"Our Pope?" Reminds me of when I'm taking to my brother and I'll refer to "my mom and dad." My brother responds, "They're my mom and dad too, GeoBQn."

Tut, tut. Way too familiar. She should refer to him as The Holy Father.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose. It's just a sign of how wonky the church is that they sweetly defer to an ailing old man but could give a rat's arse about the troubles of a young woman whose sanity depends on aborting a fetus.

The Dutch television interviewed an oldster (85) from Brabant. For the non Dutch/Belgian readers, this is a predominantly catholic rural part of the Netherlands and Belgium. A typical peasant with cap, pipe smoking and an almost unintelligible dialect (which I love), anyway you would expect him to be old fashioned and a conservative catholic. But, he said I am glad this pope resigns, because what he said about gay people is so wrong, to speak like that about a fellow human being is a disgrace!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.