For Those Who Used To Be Fundie. Did You Like Yourself?

[Anne Tudor]

Is this sort of a chicken and the egg thing? I am honestly asking. Does fundamentalism leads to low self esteem, or does low self esteem lead to fundamentalism?

[debrand]

Is this sort of a chicken and the egg thing? I am honestly asking. Does fundamentalism leads to low self esteem, or does low self esteem lead to fundamentalism?

I think both. If you are child that was brought up as a fundamentalist, there is a good chance that your self esteem will be low. However, fundamentalism probably draws adults with low self esteem and then reinforces their self doubt.

Not only was my self esteem low but I wanted the stability that my childhood lacked. The idea that I could follow certain rules and everything would be happy and beautiful really appealed to me. It didn't work out that way because life isn't so neat and tidy. Plus, I couldn't turn my brain off.

[Olive Plant]

I like myself more than I liked most other people. It's true that I felt guilty for everything I did wrong, but I was such a goody-two-shoes that it was pretty easy to be self-righteous about it. When at 19 a guy held my hand I just about died of guilt. I became less fundie as I got a little older, more fundie-lite Southern Baptist, so that probably helped my self-esteem, at least until I kissed a guy I barely knew. I think one of the reasons I married the guy I married was because I felt unworthy of anyone better, which clearly is problematic. Marriage was definitely the low point. The whole reason I got out was because I thought what everyone was telling me, that I just needed to grin and bear what was my cross to bear, was utter crap. I took full responsibility for my own humanity and my own needs and I got the fuck out. Not that it was easy. Sometimes I still struggle with depression and feeling like nobody will love a sinner like me, no matter how many times I try to un-brainwash myself.

[AlexIsAwake]

I agree that it's both. Fundamentalism breeds low self esteem in those caught within its trap, but it's also appealing to those who have low self esteem to start with. Though I was raised in it, my parents were not. They were attracted to it as adults exactly because it promises a simple formula of following the rules and reaping God's blessings and favor. Never seemed to work that way for them though, especially my father, who is one of the most unhappy people I've ever seen. And he's rarely ever missed a Sunday of church in my 30-odd years on this planet.

[Jana814]

However, fundamentalism probably draws adults with low self esteem and then reinforces their self doubt.

I agree with your statment when in terms of fundamentalism drawing adults w/ low self esteem. I think is might be true w/ other religions. I have a EX-friend from High School that is now a Jevorah Witness, and I am confinced that she has low self esteem, so I think that is why she changed her religion.

[Anise]

Back when I was fundie-lite, it never occurred to me that I was insensitive, judgmental, and an all around asshole. I was homeschooled, so the only beliefs I was really exposed to were those of my parents and their friends. The first time I met a Catholic girl was when I was 13, and I told her that I thought anyone who believed in Jesus was a Christian- and I thought I was making a generous concession and being nice! Yet, sometimes I did see myself as a bad person because of unwanted thoughts- so in a way, I feared myself. But at the same time, there were a lot of dreams and desires I kept to myself for fear of them being crushed, especially as a teenager. I used to fear losing my personality and sense of self under all the pressures and rules.

Now, when I look back at certain instances, I cringe. I tell myself that I was living under the influence of religiosity and try to do better now.

[RachelB]

Is this sort of a chicken and the egg thing? I am honestly asking. Does fundamentalism leads to low self esteem, or does low self esteem lead to fundamentalism?

I'm not fundamentalist, but I would say that my (preacher) father's belief in total human depravity and his moodiness (which I have thought for a long time might be undiagnosed depression) have mutually reinforced each other. That's a powerful and disempowering narrative to hear from the pulpit over a long stretch of time (and from someone entrusted in part with your upbringing). Calvinism certainly doesn't hold out much hope that people can improve their lives. In fact, it would be arrogant to try.

Calvinism furnished both the vocabulary and the philosophical/religious justification for my negative self-talk. And, whether genetically or via socialization, I'm a lot more apt to notice evidence that people are shitty to each other than evidence that they are capable of great kindness (and more apt to ascribe the kindness to God, the cruelty to human nature). I'm working on it, but it has been really hard going: it took me years of stewing, and realizing that my own thinking and behavioral patterns were hard on my partner, to stop thinking of therapy as (1) self-indulgent and (2) extremely unlikely to work.

And as I said, I'm not fundie-- I grew up in a liberal denomination (UCC), albeit one with a wide range of theological influences and practices. I can't even imagine how much harder it must be to learn to nurture your own mental health if you grew up in a religion that treats normal human emotions (let alone mental illness) as signs that you are not relying on Jesus enough.

[Almost]

Is this sort of a chicken and the egg thing? I am honestly asking. Does fundamentalism leads to low self esteem, or does low self esteem lead to fundamentalism?

I agree with the poster who stated it's a combination of both. Once I started to really pay attention to what was going on around me, I realized that 90% of the people in my cult were either raised in it and never bothered to question otherwise, lest they be cast out(because they were raised with the low self esteem) or ones that had "strayed" from the fold at one time or even found it on their own and were now clinging to it in hopes that it would prevent them from ever doing "sinful" things again(here's the low self esteem leading to fundie town. Own your actions, people). I have no respect for either party. Those few that truly chose it for themselves and are happy in it, eh. I don't get it because I still have such a bitter bias, but I suppose they're out there. And if they are, well, good for them.

[gilamomster]

If I'd had any self esteem, I'd never have gone the fundie route. I look back now and still ask myself what on earth were you thinking??? A divorce made life better...not being part of a controlling patriarchal group.

This is me except change a move away for divorce. Leaving the area really helped me and mine fall out of fundiedom. That and the fact that they tried to pray the demon of autism out of my son. :x :naughty:

[TMS]

I felt like a loser because no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't give up birth control, couldn't become completely submissive to my husband, and couldn't convince myself to be dresses only. I also couldn't get my husband on board at all, heathen that he is. I couldn't bring myself to identify with Republicans, and although I homeschooled during that time, I never minded reporting to our state or having my kids tested yearly. I prayed and attended Bible studies but I knew my heart was "wrong" and constantly felt like a bad Christian. I wondered if I was truly was on the highway to hell.

So, thinking back to those days, I'd have to say, no, I didn't like myself much. But it is a part of my life and my growth into the person I have become today.

[ADoyle90815]

I think both. If you are child that was brought up as a fundamentalist, there is a good chance that your self esteem will be low. However, fundamentalism probably draws adults with low self esteem and then reinforces their self doubt.

Not only was my self esteem low but I wanted the stability that my childhood lacked. The idea that I could follow certain rules and everything would be happy and beautiful really appealed to me. It didn't work out that way because life isn't so neat and tidy. Plus, I couldn't turn my brain off.

I also think it's both, as people brought up in fundie or fundie lite churches develop low self esteem, and often, churches like the Mormon church actively prey on those with low self esteem, especially if their childhood wasn't stable. I do think That Wife had such low self esteem being raised Mormon that not only did she manipulate someone who wasn't even attracted to her into marrying him through a religious Power Point presentation, but by having not just one child, but is about to have a second child. She even stays with an asshole husband because she knows that even if she got a civil divorce, getting a "sealing" canceled is a rare thing so she's stuck being married to That Asshole.

[Ramona]

I started going to church at a relatively "light" church and moved over the span of a few years to more and more conservative ones. I actually wanted to be a part of the dresses only, head covering, etc type groups.. I sought out that type of church. I don't know why, I just did. The weird thing about it all is that I never really did believe what they believed.. I was trying to, I figured if I just lived as if I believed it all - and I really did live totally like that, I even became a church member at one place and gave a "testimony" - that someday it would 'stick'. That some day I would actually BELIEVE it all.

[rollmeover]

I think I am an outlier because my faith was a help and a comfort to me. I was definitely not perfectly happy, confident and successful (still am not) but it was not religion that caused me the issues - it was medical problems, financial issues, trauma, sexual assualt etc etc. My faith was a great comfort because I believed that God loved me and that I had the eternal bliss of heaven to look forward to. I'm not sure I would have survived without that. I think if you really believed a lot of the teachings (I was a calvinist fundie) it would be very depressing to certain personality types - I tend to just think "Oh well, we all fall short. I'll try again but Jesus loves me anyway", and all the guilty worm and deserving hell part was just something I never took personally - it was just something I read or heard. But I didn't feel the pews were packed with high achieving, optimistic, sunny-natured people - maybe it attracts a certain type of person? I went to a charismatic, "happy clappy" church at one point and the people there were definitely more cheerful, more extroverted and more the type of people who would see a problem as a challenge.

[TinyDancer87]

I was angry at myself for not being good enough while at the same time knowing it was bullshit on some level. I hated that I didn't fit in in the fundie world or the real world.

I was born into it, so that may be why I was never as convinced as someone who becomes fundie later.

This sums up my sentiments exactly.

They always drill into your head that you're never good enough for God, so you need Jesus/grace. I get that. But it was like, if you didn't find all the sins in your life, how would you ever become perfect? And perfection is a BIG deal in the fundie world. So this whole time, you're finding everything wrong about yourself, focusing more on the bad instead of the good. Your energies turn sour and your personality turns bitter. It's a horrible situation.

Now that my husband and I are that way, I've asked him if he's happier now. He said that he didn't like that he used to be judgemental and hypocritical, but now-looking-back it was a process he needed to go through to see the obsurdity of it all. I think we are better people now because we've been so low.

[nolongerIFBx]

My natural inclination to have low self esteem was reinforced by fundamentalism

QFT- I wouldn't blame my low self-esteem completely on fundamentalism, but it sure didnt' help. I was a happy and outgoing child, even in fundamentalism. It was once I became a teen and was constantly told how rebellious and bad teenagers were along with how gossipy and nagging women are that I became the person who just tried not to stand out as either bad or excessively good.

I think both. If you are child that was brought up as a fundamentalist, there is a good chance that your self esteem will be low. However, fundamentalism probably draws adults with low self esteem and then reinforces their self doubt.

Not only was my self esteem low but I wanted the stability that my childhood lacked. The idea that I could follow certain rules and everything would be happy and beautiful really appealed to me. It didn't work out that way because life isn't so neat and tidy. Plus, I couldn't turn my brain off.

Absolutely. I've said before that fundamentalism attracts those who need rules in order to function and those who need to rule over someone in order to feel good about themselves. Then these people produce children. Recovering Grace brought up this topic recently. Our parents were able to balance what they were being told with real world experience but we swallowed it all. What may have actually been a stabilizing influence on their lives totally unbalanced ours.

[Coconut Flan]

Absolutely. I've said before that fundamentalism attracts those who need rules in order to function and those who need to rule over someone in order to feel good about themselves. Then these people produce children. Recovering Grace brought up this topic recently. Our parents were able to balance what they were being told with real world experience but we swallowed it all. What may have actually been a stabilizing influence on their lives totally unbalanced ours.

I think that's an excellent point. It has a different impact on people due to the different backgrounds and the parents seldom, if ever, acknowledge that.