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Kelly generationstarvation V Alice.


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generationcedar.com/main/2013/01/feminism-the-real-war-against-women.html#comments

In her second highly entertaining article on feminism *snort*

Kelly gets ripped a new one in her comments. Appears to me when she felt she was not going to 'win' she stopped Alice's comments.

Could not find the last thread to see if this was discussed. Apologies if it was.

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Her reply to one comment that prenatal care in the US isn't always free:

Lilah–prenatal care isn’t absolutely a must either. I hardly ever go for mine, my doctor laughs and teases me, and I tell him “prenatal care is overratedâ€. Unless there is a problem (which can rarely even be prevented with prenatal care, by the way), many women all over the world have had healthy babies with not one prenatal visit. That’s more of a US “luxury†we’ve been convinced is a necessity.

What a stupid, stupid, completely irresponsible, entitled comment.

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Guest Anonymous

You've got to keep in mind that 'Alice' had a few celebratory drinks with a friend that night. She was not functioning on top form. That's why her punctuation was so terrible.

:whistle:

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You've got to keep in mind that 'Alice' had a few celebratory drinks with a friend that night. She was not functioning on top form. That's why her punctuation was so terrible.

:whistle:

HAHAHA!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Kelly is full of pride in her own intellect, but never actually does much reasoning. Her comments rarely get more thoughtful than "Wow, you're so totally right Kelly! May God bless you!"

It's entertaining to see Kelly flounder when she actually has to argue something logically.

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Kelly is full of pride in her own intellect, but never actually does much reasoning. Her comments rarely get more thoughtful than "Wow, you're so totally right Kelly! May God bless you!"

It's entertaining to see Kelly flounder when she actually has to argue something logically.

I feel true schadenfreude that some of the dissenting comments are making Kelly get all uncomfortable. She truly is a smug little twatwaffle.

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She really is an arrogant prick.

From Jennifer:

Be careful about being a “sheep†and others being the “goat.†We have many sisters in Christ suffering because of the decision to abort a baby. Our culture is making abortion a cool fad, to wear like a badge of honor as if it is some sort of initiation into a cool woman’s club. But what that cool woman’s club doesn’t want you to see is the emotional suffering that these women feel after an abortion. I have traveled a long road to Christ. I have learned that there is joy in marriage and in loving your husband contrary to what our culture tries to tell us. There is joy in homeschooling my children and having them home with me everyday. My point is others are traveling that road right now, today, as they are reading your blog (and the comments). You are an online role model now whether you wanted to be or not! Don’t become the “other side,†the “us vs them.†Be careful. Stay an inspiration.

Kelly responds:

there are issues that ARE black and white, dark and light, us and them. Sin always brings pain, regardless of which sin it is. That constant must remain.

I love this comment from Kelly. :lol:

it doesn’t matter how you define “fetusâ€, or at what point you think a human being can feel pain. It doesn’t matter AT ALL.

We are talking about life. Life begins at conception. That’s a SCIENTIFIC fact. I could care less about your definition of terms. They are absurd and irrelevant to the question of whether it’s OK for us to take a life. I had already made this point when I pointed out that your logic infers that it is OK to take ANYONE’S life, at any time, given that the victim doesn’t feel pain. You are arguing that if no pain is involved, then the taking of that life is acceptable. Your logic has horrific conclusions and you are not thinking like a competent person.

END OF DISCUSSION.

Disagree with Kelly, you are not only not thinking clearly, but you are incompetent. What a fucking jerk.

From commenter, Joyce:

The Bible never forbids abortion, and it was practiced during Biblical times. Many Jewish scholars interpret a passage in the Old Testament as an abortion, in fact: the one where a woman suspected of adultery is required to go see the priest and drink “bitter water†which may cause her fruit to depart from her.

The claim of “brainwashing†is somewhat amusing, because if anything, I was brainwashed as a homeschooler into believing that the Bible was anti-abortion because embryos are human beings endowed with every right, and innocent until the day they sinned. If that’s true, why were there so many pregnant women who were killed in Israelite raids by the direct order of God?

Kelly's response:

The point that life begins at conception is to validate the fact that abortion takes a life. Most women don’t even know they are pregnant until around the 6th or 7th week of pregnancy. By that time, the zygote is a baby, fully human with DNA, a central nervous system, a beating heart and a brain. So based on that fact alone, there isn’t any point arguing whether “zygotes†can be aborted; babies are being aborted. And because life is on a continuum, even a zygote is a human life.

Arguing that abortion is acceptable because it isn’t forbidden in the Bible? Actually, yes it is. It’s one of the Ten Commandments. Furthermore, Scripture refers to “fetuses†as people numerous times. God refers to Jacob and Esau as “nations†and Levi was mentioned as a person before he was even conceived, “still contained in the loins of Abrahamâ€.

God’s acts of genocide (difficult for us to understand) isn’t a normative for killing people at our will. He’s God. We’re not. He takes the lives of children even now, sometimes prematurely. He can, because they are His lives, not ours. That’s the whole point.

Accepting that we are “allowed†to do anything not very specifically mentioned in the Bible is the worst kind of hermeneutics imaginable, especially when there is such clear principle as we are discussing now. With that approach, almost anything is acceptable.

I would strongly urge you to go back to your moorings with Scripture as your foundation and not be “tossed back and forth by every wind of doctrineâ€.

Commenter, Tonya:

February 1, 2013 at 1:33 pm

Personally I don’t like abortion and would never have one, but I have to say it’s not my place to decide that for anyone else. I don’t know that person’s situation and in my opinion if God is truly in control he can sort out the sinners without my meddling. If asked I would tell a friend my reasoning for not having an abortion, but I wouldn’t go so far as condemning them for considering it.

Personally while having been raised a Christian I grew up and decided Paganism suited my personal beliefs better. That being said I have still have morals and values, and try my best to live peacefully with others. My religion isn’t as immoral as some would assume. “Do what you will, and harm none.†instead of being looked at as free pass to do whatever you want could be looked at this way. Is murder, lying, stealing, gossiping, adultery ect harmful to anyone? If the answer is yes then doing it is wrong. My own religion puts a fairly high value on traditional gender roles and motherhood, but not to the point where all a woman is good for is marrying and having as many kids as possible. It does put a high value on hospitality and providing comfortable homelife for your family.

My problem with many of the Christians who are against abortion is that they don’t do enough practical things to stop it as they should. Blogging about it and going to protests aren’t going to do as much good as practical things like asking the pregnant woman how can we help you in a way that would allow you to keep your child? Would you homeschool a pregnant teen so that she could continue her education while keeping her baby? Would you help a single mom with daycare or help her cover an unforeseen exspense? Would you look at a pregnant sixteen year old whose boyfriend left her to deal with itby herself and say “So you made some poor choices, but your lifes not ruined and God loves you and so do I.†or would you condemn her and tell her how no decent man will ever want her now? Answer honestly and if you find yourself not willing to help then consider yourself part of the reason why abortions happen.

I know so many conservative Christians who put down single moms and gripe and complain about their tax dollars going to support the grand lifestyle of the much maligned “Welfare Queen†let me tell you from experience what life is really like for a single mom. I am the product of two teens who weren’t mature enough to have custody of a goldfish getting married and trying to raise a baby. By the time I was four my parents were divorced and my paternal grandparents were raising me. My grandparents were wonderful people they were devout Christians and I grew up in church. Sadly niether of them lived to see me turn eighteen. My dad who was on his third wife by the time my grandmother passed the summer before my seventeenth birthday wasn’t thrilled about having to finish raising me. My newest step-mom hated me from day one she had enough to deal with with her own daughter who was the poster child for teenage rebellion. Me I was hurt by my dad abandoning me as a kid and the fact that he had left me alone for the past three years to take care of my dying grandmother by myself. I had pretty much been taking care of myself for the last year or so and really didn’t feel like I needed him at that point. I was never a wild kid Ihad a few close friends and was an honor roll student. I didn’t party and had my very first job. At home though things were bad I was unwanted and they made sure I knew it. My step-mom was abusive she actualy tried to hit me with an iron skillet once because I had left a water spot on one of the dishes when it was my turn to do them. I got locked out of the house during a blizzard and had to sleep in the barn for no particular reason other than my dad worked for VDOT and was out plowing snow so she could get away withtrying to turn me into a popsicle. Long story short at seventeen four months before my high school graduation they kicked me out. I used the money my grandparents left me to buy a trailer and continued going to school, but I was an angry hurt and lonely kid. I graduated only to find out my dad had spent all themoney my grandparents had saved for me to go to college. So with no real prospects I let my high school sweetheart move in to help with the bills. We were supposed to get married and be together forever, but I got pregnant and then caught him with his best friend’s fourteen year old sister, so I kicked him out.

He pressured me to have an abortion, man did he ever, but I had my son. Soon I found out how hard single motherhood could be. I worked in fact I worked two jobs most of the time and couldn’t get by without meficaid and foodstamps I would work from 6 a.m. to sometimes midnight or later drag myself home catch a few hours sleep rinse and repeat. I did this for five years and I hated it I rarely got to spend time with my son my parents or sitters were raising him while I burned the candle at both ends trying to keep a roof over our heads. I was lucky though by pure accident oneday I met the man who is now my husband we’ve been together twelve years and have four kids together plus my son who he has raised as his own. Now I’m a stay at home mom and thankful that I have that option now. My point is I love all my kids and don’t regret having any of them, but looking back I shudder at all the times despite my best efforts my son and I were nearly out on the street. I can see how some women might look at that future and say no way I’am not doing that to myself and my child.

Today I’m not as quick to judge as I once was in my younger more idealistic days I know the road these young women face and I will niether condone nor condemn their choice because it’s theirs to make and any sin involved is between them and a higher power than little old me.

And Kelly's horrific response:

You have proven just how horrific paganism is and why, without a standard of right and wrong (which can only be ascribed by the Creator since we live in His universe), there is no end to the anarchy. Let me show you what I mean…this, given a different offense, is what you just said:

“Personally I don’t like raping children and would never do it, but I have to say it’s not my place to decide that for anyone else. I don’t know that person’s situation and in my opinion if God is truly in control he can sort out the sinners without my meddling. If asked I would tell a friend my reasoning for not having raping a child, but I wouldn’t go so far as condemning them for considering it.â€

And yes, I am (have been) willing to take practical measures to help a woman save her baby. I am not immune to the messes people get their lives into. My family spent my entire childhood (and still does) ministering to the children of such results. There are also Christians on every side of me taking VERY practical, hard, sacrificial measures to try to pick up the pieces of poor lifestyle choices.

I can't even, :angry-banghead: :angry-cussing: :angry-cussingblack: :angry-fire: :angry-screaming: :angry-steamingears: :obscene-birdiered:

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You've got to keep in mind that 'Alice' had a few celebratory drinks with a friend that night. She was not functioning on top form. That's why her punctuation was so terrible.

:whistle:

Bless her heart :dance:

I can barely read Kelly without dangerous spikes in my blood pressure, much less interact with her!

The thing that gets me is the unwillingness to support anything that might result in harm reduction and not complete eradication (if you see abortion as a harm). If abortion is the new Holocaust, how can you fail to support the measures that are proven to bring about a reduction in abortions? Financial help for struggling women and families. Truly comprehensive sex education. Free birth control and prenatal care.

IMO, assuming abortion is murder, Kelly is as complicit as anyone. She's not willing to do what it takes to end this ~horror~. She'll wring her hands about the fallen state of the world and blah blah feminist depravity, but she is the one against measures that would actually bring down the number of abortions. I mean, if we're supposed to believe that she genuinely believes abortion is equivalent to murder... but she won't do what it takes to save these lives? Filthy hypocrite, tbh.

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Kelly is a person who has been swallowed up by her own self-hatred and guilt.

I'd pity Kelly, if she hadn't completely fucked up her kids in the process. Poor Bria seems horribly undereducated.

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I left a comment. I doubt that it will be published though. Based on Kelly's comments regarding valuing life, I asked her what she thought about war, the death penalty, and people who choose to take their loved one off of life support. All of those things take life, which she says that she is against, but I have a feeling that she will come up with some explanation as to why it's okay to kill certain people, just as long as they aren't the size of pea.

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Am I missing something, or has she deleted a shit ton of comments?

I think it just seems like there are comments missing because Kelly & Co jump around a lot. There are a few more comments now than when I looked at the post earlier.

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(snip)

Kelly's snipped response

I can't even, :angry-banghead: :angry-cussing: :angry-cussingblack: :angry-fire: :angry-screaming: :angry-steamingears: :obscene-birdiered:

I was going to write a well-though out, calm response, but all I could come up with was: What the ever-loving fucking fuck?!? :angry-screaming: Aborting an embryo who can't feel anything is not the same as putting a child through a horrific crime, plus lifelong trauma! One is a non-sentinent accumulation of cells, the other is a an actual human being! :doh:

And I don't believe for one moment that she does take practical measures. What does "ministering to children of such results" even mean? And where are these other Christians that make those sacrifices? I bet they're too busy actually doing stuff, instead of blowing their own trumpets on the internet. And "poor lifestyle choices"? Kelly, you tell a 12 year old that got raped and pregnant that her "lifestyle choices" are poor, meanwhile, I'll do my best to make sure she gets real "choices about her life", instead of your fucking, condescending "lifestyle choices"! Feed your kids, before you start messing with strangers' lives! :angry-banghead:

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I'm Tonya and of course I knew she was going to pull the no morals card I've heard it all before more times than I can count. I was trying to make a point that she entirely missed. It's damned easy to sit on back and make judgements about someone's choices if you have no clue what brought them to this point. I told a glossed over version of my life, because I wanted her to realize she shouldn't pass judgement on women who find themselves pregnant in less than ideal situations. I know how little small-minded people like her think of people like me, but it won't stop me from forcing them to see a human being, and not just a sinner even if it's only for the time it takes her to read my post. I want them to at least have it occasionally rubbed in their face that for every unplanned pregnancy that doesn't end in abortion there is in all likelihood a one more single mom struggling to just get by, and that if they are the good Christians they say they are they need to STFU about her needing government assistance. I like like to rub it in their face that given their worldview the woman has the choice to either be a murderer or on government assistance.

My writing was bad, but my phone makes editing anything I type on it a pain. I was also trying to not say what I really think about her. I doubt posting I think you are a narrow-minded, hateful, ignorant, batshit crazy, bitch would have gotten past moderation.

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And I don't believe for one moment that she does take practical measures. What does "ministering to children of such results" even mean?

I would assume for Kelly it means making them feel guilty and exploiting said guilt to bring them to Jesus?

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I do plan on replying to Kelly with a few of the reasons I'm no longer a Christian one of them involves the story about a girl I grew up going to church with who did end up pregnant at 12 or 13 after her older brother's new friend from college slipped a roofie in her Dr. Pepper. I also would like to inform Kelly that if a friend of mine confided in me that they were contemplating child rape I'd suggest they seek out psychiatric help ASAP and that I would also as a decent human being feel compelled to make a phone call to my local police department. I would also argue the point that child rape breaks the "harm none" rule of my faith so not I would not just say do whatever you want. Another point I plan on making is abortion is legal there is not a damned thing I could legally to to stop a friend from having an abortion. Child rape however is illegal and as a law abiding citizen I would feel it my duty to at least give the police a heads up about what my friend deviant inclinations were. I would probably inform anyone close to them with children as well.

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I would assume for Kelly it means making them feel guilty and exploiting said guilt to bring them to Jesus?

You're probably right. :evil: Now I need a drink. And btw, Dear Jesus, your fundamentalist followers are driving me to drink, is that what happened to you, or did you really drink the grape-juice?

edited for a better choice of words

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So to recap Kelly's view points based on her posts. God hates sin, God hates sin so much he can whip up a super storm that will kill and cripple millions of people to prove how powerful he is. He is all powerful, all knowing and controls your life.

But taking a small pill will thwart him. Oh that makes perfect sense. Not :roll:

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After reading Kelly's answer to Tonya, I lost some hope in humanity. Tonya's story brought tears to my eyes, and I do not understand how it could have left anyone untouched/unmoved. I'm disgusted by all the hate that woman possesses. I don't understand how KelLy can even function. Being so hateful must leave her absolutely exhausted...

Kelly Crawford is evil.

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I'm not a huge fan of Kelly. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that her "human" credentials be rescinded. All there is, in my head, when I read her, is screaming.

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After reading Kelly's answer to Tonya, I lost some hope in humanity. Tonya's story brought tears to my eyes, and I do not understand how it could have left anyone untouched/unmoved. I'm disgusted by all the hate that woman possesses. I don't understand how KelLy can even function. Being so hateful must leave her absolutely exhausted...

QFT. That woman is so vile. Her response to Tonya just makes my blood boil.

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Is she a dementor? seems like she thrives on other people's pain and suffering and is actively working on increasing said pain and suffering.

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Tonya/Njoying,

I'm a Christian and was nodding my head while reading your post. You are absolutely right that we (all society regardless of faith) need to stand up and help the people who do choose to have their babies. And welfare queens don't exist anymore....I've never bought into that GOP hogwash.

I guess I just wanted you to know that we (Christians) are not all hateful monsters like Kelly.

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I'm not a huge fan of Kelly. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that her "human" credentials be rescinded. All there is, in my head, when I read her, is screaming.

YEP.

Kelly really blows my mind. I don't think I've ever encountered someone with less capacity for compassion/empathy/charity/kindness/insertgoodqualityhere. It bothers me? Like, I used to read Generation Cedar pretty faithfully, but it started actually messing with my mind. I just come on FJ for grins and usually I'm just like 'haha that's dumb' but it started really getting to me. Like... how can someone exist like that? Boggles the mind.

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