Boy Scouts to lift ban on gays?

[thekate]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01 ... aders?lite

It would still be up to local control whether or not to ban gays, but it's mostly the swift (potential) reversal that surprised me. How will the fundies react, since they were so proud of the Boy Scouts staying true to early 20th century ideas of (lost) manliness?

[doggie]

I wonder as I just read a story where the heads cracked down on one Boy Scout group that changed their pledge to remove sexual orientation.

[Anxious Girl]

Woo-hoo! These strong alpha patriarchal men are loosing to "us spineless liberals". Look, they're hurt because they have to share a privilege that they take for granted. Aw, how sad for them. :auto-ambulance: :auto-ambulance: :auto-ambulance:

[mebeforee]

I really hope they will lift the ban. I've been a lifelong member of the Girl Scouts, starting when I was 6 years old as a Brownie, becoming an adult member when I started working at a GS summer camp after graduating high school, and again registering a couple of years ago after I finished my undergraduate degree and moved back home, and started a Daisy troop with my mother (who was my GS troop leader growing up). One of the reasons I have no problem staying involved in the group is that they have been completely open about NOT discriminating against people for any reason, including allowing transgendered children to join the group (to much scandal, apparently). And their main goal is empowering children, which I think is really important.

Every time I hear about the Boy Scouts being so vehemently anti-gay it bothers me. I know they're different organizations entirely, but I don't understand why any children's organization should discriminate for any reason. It's ridiculous. And in spite of being independent of each other, they're associated strongly with one another. The standpoint of the Boy Scouts has been so prevalent that it makes me wonder if it's one of the reasons my eldest brother didn't stick with it... he's gay and knew from a young age (my mom has told me that she first had the sex talk with him when he was 5 or 6 years old, on a school trip she chaperoned he came up to her on the bus and asked what the other children were talking about when discussing 'doing it'... she explained it to him in terms of 'if a boy and a girl like each other...' and his first question was 'what if a boy and a boy like each other?'), and he dropped out of the group when he was about 9 or 10, old enough to recognize those kind of attitudes. He's always been someone who knew what he wanted and would immediately take action to do what was necessary to accomplish it. I don't think he would have stayed in any discriminatory group after realizing how they felt about it. I just think it's sad, because he is an active and athletic guy, and our family always went camping and canoeing growing up. And I got so much out of being in Girl Scouts! I don't know, I just really hope this takes hold in a real way, because I'm sure there are a lot of families and children missing out on some great experiences because of this prejudicial and antiquated mindset.

While it would still depend on the particular troop, as someone involved in a leadership role in Girl Scouts I can say that there are dozens of troops for a particular age range in any school district, and at least in GS anyone who registers can start their own troop. Also relevant, children and parents who like what a particular troop is doing are often willing to drive up to half an hour to take their kid to scouts (my troop does a LOT of camping, badge work, and takes the girls' interests into account when deciding activities, as well as making it clear we will lead the troop through every level rather than foisting them off on a strange new leader when they bridge. we have over 20 kids now, and two children who have moved to different towns are still in the group). If this is accomplished by the boy scouts, families that would otherwise keep their sons out of the group might well start their own troops that DO allow gay parents/kids/leaders, and people might well drive out of town to involve their kids in an open-minded troop.

[Izzybee]

Best news ever, if it's true. Not only that, as a girl scout leader (I agree with everything mebeforee says), I'll stop hearing from one of my Fundie moms that Boy Scouts is sooooo much better. Apparently we're evil because we don't let her hover over her daughter constantly and we're teaching independence and critical thinking skills.

[GeoBQn]

I'm scared this is going to be like when Chik-fil-a said they were going to stop donating to anti-gay organizations, everybody was happy, then CFA was like, "What? We never said that . . ."

[Abi]

Finally. Hope something comes of this.

[wildcatgrrl]

If this is accomplished by the boy scouts, families that would otherwise keep their sons out of the group might well start their own troops that DO allow gay parents/kids/leaders, and people might well drive out of town to involve their kids in an open-minded troop.

We have at least one alternative to Boy Scouts here that I know of, a group started by a mom because BS wasn't right for her family. She and her wife are wonderful ladies who have been together longer than many heterosexual couples that I've known have lasted. If they had a daughter rather than a son, it wouldn't even have been an issue with Girl Scouts. BS lost a really involved parent in her, that's for sure. She would've been an asset to them if she could've.

[Bloo]

I'll believe it when I see them openly touting openly gay scout masters and older scouts.

[YPestis]

Am I the only one who sees this as the result of the Mormon Church's influence? I remember this facinating New York Times article entitled "As Partners, Mormons and Scouts Act Turn Boys into Men".

...in an unusual partnership dating to 1913, the Mormon Church has embraced scouting wholesale, giving it a central role in preparing male youths for their two-year missionary stints and adulthood as lay priests.

Virtually every Mormon church, or ward, has a scout troop. Every Mormon boy is automatically enrolled, and the vast majority participate

....

In 2011, Mormon-sponsored packs and troops accounted for more than one-third of the country’s scout units, and the 421,000 boys they enrolled, from ages 8 to 18, made up 15 percent of the country’s 2.7 million registered scouts.

Considering they are 2% US population, that's a pretty disproportionate representation.

Recently, the LDS church have softened their stance on gays and extended an olive branch to the LGBT community. Prop 8 backlash seem to be a watershed moment for them. In recent state ballots on gay marriage, the LDS church has stayed in the background. I wonder if this turning point in the church also made it possible for the BSA to finally allow openly gays to lead their units?

Re: Girl Scouts.

Another interesting article on scouting entitled "Boy Scouts Are From Mars, Girl Scouts Are From Venus".

This notes that while the girl scouts is now considered left leaning due to their focus on social justice and open tolerance of spiritual beliefs, boy scouts has become more right leaning. It's also one reason some church denominations such as the LDS and Catholic churches have encouraged families to send daughters to church created girl groups. I hate to sound anti-religious, but it seems like religious organizations still struggle with female empowerment today. The Girl Scouts of America are teaching similar values to what the BSA teaches, stressing good citizenship and empowerment, but what's good for the goose.....

Anyway, this is great news for the BSA. I know it won't mean gays are welcomed in every scouting unit, but it will allow inclusiveness to some, and that's a good place to start.

[mebeforee]

Sadly, some parents are looking for Girl Scouts/Boy Scouts to be the same as a church youth group. They're not, and if you're looking for a religious focus in the group, you should stick with church stuff. Both technically have references to Christianity in their pledges (and it seems to be the reason Boy Scouts has had this stance for so long), but the organizations themselves have different goals. They're about giving kids useful skills and helping them understand the world, how to be independent, and how to take care of themselves. Yeah, that stuff CAN be taught through religion, but religion isn't a necessary part of it.

In my area, I don't know of any real alternatives to Boy Scouts. Unfortunately, I do think that in terms of later life application, putting 'Eagle Scout' on a college application is going to get you farther than a group that is relatively unknown. It might not seem like much in that context, but the school district I grew up in recently had a horrifying vote that cut basically all its extracurricular funding. No clubs, or sports, or music groups with the school. Sports still exist, but as a highly expensive pay-to-play option. So until the taxpayers realize what the fuck they just did to themselves and their kids, the community teams and groups like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are getting a lot more interest from kids and parents. The thing is, if any child has to deny their own identity, or their parents' identity, or their moral beliefs in order to get into one of these groups just because they're afraid they won't get into college without the extra stuff... that's society and education failing them. I was able to put Gay Straight Alliance and Girl Scouts and all the school bands I was in on my college applications, but the students now can't and that's bullshit. I feel it's a nationwide trend that people are becoming misers toward taxes, even though other people's taxes paid for all THEIR school stuff, which means this move on the Boy Scouts could make a difference to millions of kids in America...

[Grace]

I hope so and I hope it sticks. I remember going to cub scouts meetings when a friend of the family would watch me. She was the Den Mother of her boy's troupe (?) and I have always wanted to have my boys in scouts & to be their Den Mother if I have any boys but I couldn't get past the gay ban.

[doggie]

Just popped into my head That these Special snowflake Christians think people choose to be gay. But I think god put gay people on this earth to test Christians to see how christian they really are. So hate gays piss god off. there you go in a nutshell.

[micatite]

Does anyone know if Campfire USA is an option for those who can't support the BSA's anti-gay policies? I know Girl Scouts don't discriminate, but would Campfire be an option for boys (and girls...since they're open to both sexes.)

[Conuly]

Does anyone know if Campfire USA is an option for those who can't support the BSA's anti-gay policies? I know Girl Scouts don't discriminate, but would Campfire be an option for boys (and girls...since they're open to both sexes.)

Campfire does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, gender, or religion. However, although they are a venerable organization, it can be hard to find them near you.

[Ruby Slippers]

It probably won't happen. The BSA are in bed with the Mormon church and has a lot of Mormon heavy-hitting donors. Blah.

[Hane]

Am I the only one who sees this as the result of the Mormon Church's influence?

No--I thought of this immediately. At my UU church, two families I know have sons in Boy Scouts. They object to the anti-gay rule, and have been waiting out its end. On separate occasions, a parent from each of those families has mentioned that they have no doubt that the big anti-gay push comes in large part from the Mormon Church.

[DistantStar]

If they do overturn this, there are people in Salt Lake who are going to be pissed. And that makes me happy. Perhaps that makes me an awful person, but there it is.

I wonder if this isn't part of a "we Mormons don't actually hate gay people" push - I know there's something like that afoot, though from what I know said efforts are pretty weak, the Mormon equivalent of "love the sinner but hate the sin." The church has taken some pretty big PR hits in the last few years concerning gays and it's probably hurting their pocketbooks. I know people who left over Prop 8.

[lilwriter85]

I have two relatives who work for BSA. One is full time employee and the other is part time. The relative who works full time was a scout as a child and teen. He didn't know about a lot of issues that went on in administration until he started working for BSA. He is trying to find another job right now. He doesn't completely hate his job and he said most of the secular troops and their leaders are cool. The LDS troops and their leaders are difficult to deal with. They have violated BSA policies in the past. I think in the future, the LDS church will have their own scouting program and will drop affiliations with BSA. Assemblies of God has the Royal Rangers program which is similar to Boy Scouts. My cousin has said that LDS troops are pretty much devoted to LDS wards and communities. Those troops mostly focus their service/volunteer work on Mormons.

[cindyluvs24]

When the ban first came out, people in my liberal over-educated area pulled their kids. ( I need to point out that I am also liberal and over-educated. At least when compared to my paycheck) My feeling was that it was a good program aside from this temporary madness. Besides, bigotry was never fought by running away. We made sure that our local council knew our views, and also knew that we wouldn't support the National office financially via popcorn sales or the Friends of Scouting Campaign. I got into a lot of discussions with other parents who felt that we needed to send a message to national by leaving. That seemed stupid to me. Well, my son is almost an Eagle now and National is reversing their policy. Scouting is as American as apple pie and I don't see why any piece of that should be denied to any boy for reasons that have nothing to do with his ability to be truthful, kind, brave, thrifty, etc. (I can't remember the 12 points of the Scout Law) so take that National.

[fundielicious]

I'm so happy to hear this news. It looks like it came about because BSA lost a lot of funding from groups that felt they were discriminatory. Hopefully by the time my son is old enough for scouts, BSA will be an option for him.

For those looking for an option now, 4H is another good group. It's not all farming related, and the boys and girls can choose what activities they want to focus on based on the adults who are around to lead things.

[michelle_notduggar]

I can only hope that by the time I have kids, this becomes a thing of the past so my children can have the "scout" experience without the homophobia or bigotry.

[cindyluvs24]

A lot of it depends on the adults who are running the troop. Some troops are really gung-ho whereas my son's pack and troop are more mellow. I've been involved with scouting for ten years, gone on a lot of camping trips, and a merit badge counselor for several badges. My son had a lot of fun which, when you get down to it, is the most important thing. Childhood is too short.

[Lynn18]

This is the one thing about Scouts that I've always disliked. Luckily, the Dens/Troops my boys have been in were "liberal" about those views.

[atheistjd]

Hey All, they are polling and you can call and say that you are "for" the change in policy - it takes like 30 seconds (see George Takei's FB page for additional info, but the number to call is: (972) 580-2330). Just say "for"!