Girl or woman?

[fundies_like_zombies]

Tough to pick one that would suit all situations. All the connotations!!

[salex]

I think any term (girl, women, ladies) can be tinged by context and by tone of user.

That said--I attend a "girls night out" with a group of women once a month. We are not girls age wise, we are all professionals, and if there is a fundie in the bunch, I've never noticed it What I see is that many of the terms used for women (girl, women, ladies, even gals or bitches) may be used by a group of women about themselves in playful ways but if an outsider (male or female) use some of the terms about the same group, it would not fly.

[StacyW]

I think when I was in my 20s or 30s I consciously started using "woman" for all adult females. I don't like the sound of the word, and I don't know if it's just because of the combination of consonants or vowels, or some subconscious association. I wish that "gal" hadn't gone out of style in the 60s.

[Lostie]

I'm 21 and I have no idea where that puts me on anyone's version of the girl--->woman scale, but I always call myself a girl. I also refer to males as boys. A mixed group used to be 'guys' but has recently morphed into y'all. I can't even think of a time I've used man/woman...

[Seal]

Honestly to me it depends on the context, the tone of voice of whoever is addressing me or the group, etc. Ladies and gentlemen= respectful (to me at least) and "Hey, Lady!" (trying to address someone you don't know, etc)= rude. I still get pissed at my father who says things like "the girls down at the accounting office are doing a terrific job", because he is someone in a leadership position, I feel his words should not sound belittling to those working under him, etc. He'll also socially use girl as in "that Susie is a great, fun, whatever girl/gal" no matter if Susie is 21 or 61. It's interesting to hear everyone's opinions though!

[Maggie Mae]

Hen, yup or even better Quinie :lol:

Another female told her child to 'mind the lady' today in the supermarket. I looked behind me for my Mother. I don't really mind any term it is the inference in which it is used. If I feel a particular word is being used as an agenda or patronising in any way I would take issue. Most times just harmless.

(I will admit to love being called Ma'am when in the USA PURELY because it is a novelty to me culturally. The 'Have a nice day,' not so much. Again culturally I feel like saying 'Let's face it you ACTUALLY don't give a flying shit about my day really, do you?' I promise I'm well behaved and don't say it. :lol: )

When I say "have a nice day," I mean it. Otherwise, I'll just say "thank you." And leave it at that.

I hate it when men call me ma'am. It seems so rude and condescending.

[bionicmlle]

Oh my... My mother taught me to NEVER use the term "woman" because it was a synonym with "loose." She thought it was derogatory.

I often call my girlfriends Lady as in "hey lady what's going on?" Or "hello pretty lady!"

[Just_Jane]

This thread made me think of the song "Girl, You'll be a Woman Soon". I hate that song.

[darkplumaged]

I wish that "gal" hadn't gone out of style in the 60s.

I've started saying "gal" semi-jokingly when talking about women around my age (35) with my headship, because he occasionally says it. He got it from his mom. It's a useful word: I feel silly calling a 30-something woman a girl, but sometimes "woman" feels too formal.

I considered myself and called myself a girl until I was about 25, maybe older. I've looked and felt younger than my age for most of my life (I was regularly mistaken for a high schooler or college freshman through my early 20s), so "woman" really didn't fit me until I felt more like an adult.

This thread made me think of the song "Girl, You'll be a Woman Soon". I hate that song.

I know. Gross.

[fundyfunland]

I take issue with being called a girl if it's not in a friendly or fun way. I've never heard that 'woman' was used for those who are 'loose,' regardless it's kind of annoys me because it has the word 'man' in it.

Fundie-wise, I think most of the ones we snark on here about anyway, use the term girl until marriage (ahem... Sarah Maxwell, I'm looking at you!)

[Yo Nurse]

To me, a girl is a female person who is under the age of 18. A woman or a lady is a female person who is over 18. I have heard the term "lady" used in the pejorative sense, such as when a man addresses an all-male or mostly male group as "ladies". That makes my blood run cold. I've had the misfortune of having a profile on a couple of online dating sites. I realize how superficial this sounds, but if a man uses the word "girl" to refer to women, I will not date him.

As for fundies, damned if I know.

[yewchapel]

I am 24 and still think of myself instinctively as a girl, then correct myself to call myself a woman ;) When growing up I was always taught to call other people ladies and gentleman (eg 'mind the lady', 'give the gentleman the bus fare' etc). I still look perplexed if a mother tells her child to mind the lady (meaning me) in a supermarket! :lol: I don't mind people calling themselves girls or boys in a casual setting - and I certainly do know grown men (middle aged even) who refer to themselves as 'the boys'.

[Spider Burps]

I am 24 and still think of myself instinctively as a girl, then correct myself to call myself a woman ;) When growing up I was always taught to call other people ladies and gentleman (eg 'mind the lady', 'give the gentleman the bus fare' etc). I still look perplexed if a mother tells her child to mind the lady (meaning me) in a supermarket! :lol: I don't mind people calling themselves girls or boys in a casual setting - and I certainly do know grown men (middle aged even) who refer to themselves as 'the boys'.

We're in the same boat, age and all! I feel a fool correcting myself to "woman," though, so if I slip and call myself a girl I stick with it.

I call females "ladies" or "girls" and males "gentlemen" or "boys". I call teenagers "teenage girls" or "teenage boys." Like Penny Sycamore, it annoys me when teenage girls are called women. (I also sir and ma'am everyone from children to adults because why not be polite?) But the only thing that reeeeally bothers me is being called "miss" or "missy." Ugh. I'd honestly rather be called "Mrs Myhusband's Name" than "miss!"

[kpmom]

I don't know any grown men who think of themselves as "boys". I think it's one of those insidious patriarchal cultural things we don't often think about because it's so ingrained in us.

.

ITA

I find it a little sad that so many FJers find the word "woman" sexual, slutty, or otherwise uncomfortable.

The term "man" is often used as a compliment ("You da man" "I became a man that day"), and it's so sad that we women, many of us who identify as feminists, can't do the same.

Get comfortable with the word "woman" and use it proudly. Think of women in history you are proud of. It's a wonderful thing to be a woman and don't let this insidious patriarchal culture (as Valsa so beautifully put it) let you think any different.

Oh, and p.s., I hate when I hear a woman who is fearless described as "having balls". I just heard it in an audiobook I listened to. Let's come up with something else. "She's got ovaries" Does that work?

[salex]

Yeah, we've used "brass ovaries" for a while around my circle of friends...

[kpmom]

Yeah, we've used "brass ovaries" for a while around my circle of friends...

Oh, "brass ovaries"! I like that a lot! Thanks, salex.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Its ironic really that people say that when someone is strong and fearless, yet balls are squishy and weak, and easily damaged.

[rward]

I HATEHATEHATEHATE being called "girl". I'm 37. Unless you're my mother, I'm not anyone's child. It's especially enraging when the associate attorneys younger than me refer to the secretaries (most of whom are over 50) as "the girls", as in "ask the girls to hold my calls". Once, I said, "Huh, I was unaware it was legal to hire children." I got looked at funny.

As for "lady", the only time I ever use/hear that in my area is in "look, lady" which is immediately followed by something rude, so I see "lady" as being the polite version of "bitch".

"Ma'am" makes me sad. I'm too old for people to call me "miss" anymore. *sigh*

[yewchapel]

ITA

I find it a little sad that so many FJers find the word "woman" sexual, slutty, or otherwise uncomfortable.

The term "man" is often used as a compliment ("You da man" "I became a man that day"), and it's so sad that we women, many of us who identify as feminists, can't do the same.

Get comfortable with the word "woman" and use it proudly. Think of women in history you are proud of. It's a wonderful thing to be a woman and don't let this insidious patriarchal culture (as Valsa so beautifully put it) let you think any different.

Oh, and p.s., I hate when I hear a woman who is fearless described as "having balls". I just heard it in an audiobook I listened to. Let's come up with something else. "She's got ovaries" Does that work?

I only feel weird about describing myself as a woman because I don't feel like an adult in general. If I was male I'd probably refer to myself as a boy rather than a man. And I know many men who refer to themselves as boys. I am 100% OK with and proud of being female, I just don't quite feel mature/old enough inside to be a woman.

[JenniferJuniper]

I only feel weird about describing myself as a woman because I don't feel like an adult in general. If I was male I'd probably refer to myself as a boy rather than a man. And I know many men who refer to themselves as boys. I am 100% OK with and proud of being female, I just don't quite feel mature/old enough inside to be a woman.

It must be cultural to some extent. I don't know any grown men who think of themselves as children, and boys are children. Just as girls are children, with "woman" being the adult equivalent to "man".

Curious, assuming you are legally old enough to vote, drink, sign a legally binding contract or serve your country, why don't you feel mature enough to be considered an adult?

[yewchapel]

It must be cultural to some extent. I don't know any grown men who think of themselves as children, and boys are children. Just as girls are children, with "woman" being the adult equivalent to "man".

Curious, assuming you are legally old enough to vote, drink, sign a legally binding contract or serve your country, why don't you feel mature enough to be considered an adult?

Well, I know middle-aged men who talk about going for drinks with 'the boys' and my grandma talks about going to the garden centre with 'the girls'. Maybe it is cultural, but in my experience it's meant affectionately, usually at least.

And yes, I am over the age of majority - I'm 24. I just feel like a teenager though. I don't think people suddenly gain Mature Adult Personalities the moment they turn 18, it varies for a lot of people. Legally being an adult isn't the same as feeling like an adult.

[crazyforkate]

My rules:

Up until early teenhood, you're a girl.

At that point, it's your choice and I'll respect it. (Same with Miss vs Ms)

At 18, you're a woman.

"Lady" is only as a title (like Lady Edith Crawley).

"Girl" should only be directed in a silly way to adults you know are comfortable with it, like close friends.