Why the Bates Kids Haven't Shown Signs of Rebellion

[Sky_Diamond]

Maybe they are internally rebellious and have repressed it to the point that they have turned into a fundie robot to survive!

[MamaJunebug]

GryffindorFTW's awesome break-down of frames here: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... &start=760

Aaaurgh! I can't open this for anything! Help?? Please.

[Abi]

GryffindorFTW's awesome break-down of frames here: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... &start=760

Just checked this out.. very sinister. He's clearly been whacked on the arm to shut him up.

[Seven Severn]

In the second to the last picture, Mary seems to be giving Boob a bit of a stink eye.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Thats just terrible. Poor Josiah :( Some of the other kids dont look too happy either.

Im guessing he was probably either scared because he could guess that the pregnancy wasnt going to end well or was worried about something happening to Michelle, which is totally normal considering her and Josie nearly died last time, and shouldnt be a reason for Jimbob to probably take him aside and beat him. Or he could be aware of how messed up their family situation is (he definetly seems like one of the more brighter Duggars) and not want another child born into this mess to be neglected, or think that the more kids means the more neglect for the rest of them, which is a legitimate concern and should have made them think about how they treat their kids.

I think its obvious that Jimbob hurt him in some way. I wonder how often that happens in their house when the cameras are off.

[Patsy]

Aaaurgh! I can't open this for anything! Help?? Please.

Try pasting this: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4645 after the /forums/ that appears in your URL bar now, then go to page 39? I don't know why it's not showing for you so I don't know if that'll fix it.

[jaynie]

That's very interesting.

But they never used contraception, so they must have always had some extremist tendencies.

It makes me curious about Michaela and Zack. They must be aware that they have options for a different life and family who would support them in exploring those options. I wonder what is keeping them from seeking some freedom?

I wonder if there is some of that convert effect where people who come to a belief later in life stick with it harder than those born into it? I mean, I know they were still young, but still, it might feel more like they chose it, and now have to keep choosing it. Kind of an ultra-religious foot-in-the-door effect.

I have to say, though -- with the Duggar kids that FJ has pegged as rebellious, it's not just because of one sign. It's usually like "Joy is a tomboy AND looks thoroughly miserable AND rolls her eyes at courtship stuff AND hangs out with less-fundie Amy" etc. Lots of things that check the "potential rebel" boxes, and most of them we only catch little glimpses of, even with the TV show. On the other hand, the Bates Kids don't have as much TV history, and we can probably assume the blog is idealized. So maybe one of them said something a bit snarky once on their show, but it doesn't fit into a noticeable pattern, and hence goes (largely) unnoticed. I figure there probably are black sheep Bateses -- it's just the power FJ has to identify them is less.

[lilith]

I wonder if there is some of that convert effect where people who come to a belief later in life stick with it harder than those born into it? I mean, I know they were still young, but still, it might feel more like they chose it, and now have to keep choosing it. Kind of an ultra-religious foot-in-the-door effect.

I think what you say about converts is very true. Their faith is a conscious choice, not a cultural inheritance, and they have personally chosen how to practice it.

They are also so invested in it - 19 kids, fundie celebrities, financially dependent on fees for speaking at fundie events and now on Gil's church- that even if they started to question the extremism they committed to with the zeal of youth actually examining those questions more deeply and acting on them would be far too costly, spiritually, emotionally and financially.

[roddma]

The Duggars weren't Fundie either until Michelle miscarried the first time. I was under the impression Gil and Kelly were Fundie after college. I would say that was a hard transition for the older Bates kids

[roddma]

And as far as Bates vs Duggars remember the Duggars were liked more at first. The longer they stayed on tv, you started to notice things. I agree there are things more likeable about the Bateses. But Erin almost turned down a scholarship and one of the boys commented a used car looked like a drug dealer's car. And let's not forget the green hair. Though a Quiverfull/ATI family may be likeable in their own way, lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

[Abi]

And as far as Bates vs Duggars remember the Duggars were liked more at first. The longer they stayed on tv, you started to notice things. I agree there are things more likeable about the Bateses. But Erin almost turned down a scholarship and one of the boys commented a used car looked like a drug dealer's car. And let's not forget the green hair. Though a Quiverfull/ATI family may be likeable in their own way, lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

:clap:

You can dress it up as much as you like, but facts are facts.

[nokidsmom]

While the Bates do seem more likeable to me in some ways, I do think the considerably less amount of tv exposure, as compared to the Duggars, makes it harder to see signs of rebellion. With a family that size there is bound to be some rebellion going on, even if they weren't ATI. You have a bunch of kids with different personalities and rebellion of some kind would be a given. Just as with the Duggars, ultimately I expect will be escapees from the family lifestyle, just maybe we won't get the tell-all book or interview like I see happening with one or more of the Duggar kids. I can't imagine that all their kids are thrilled with that lifestyle but might manage to quietly leave if they get the chance.

[Running1985]

I don't really follow the Bates and only know what I see on TV but, I think a big differences is the Bates kids can say "this lifestyle is crazy but I know my parents love me and I don't want to hurt them" whereas I can see the duggars saying "my parents are crazy and couldn't care less about me. I am just a number" I just recall from various bates episodes genuine concern and empathy when speaking to and about their kids. I don't think they a born actors and can fake that. Michelle does try and fake that she cares about her kids by saying that she doesn't but, you can see it in her face and manurisms with them. When they show scenes like joy anna teaching her violin it might as well have been "hey joy meet Michelle and do a scene with the violin" there isn't motherly interaction with any of them.

[Lovebug]

It's funny because when I decided I needed to watch their show, I thought to myself - wow, they're the same as the Duggars, but different. Of course, it was only through seeing what TLC wanted to show within a 30 minute show, but I felt like Gil and Kelly were way more loving and cared for their children FAR more than the Duggars, who I feel like threat their children as more of a workforce. I was shocked to see Gil and Kelly NOT giving side hugs to their children (full frontal!), and the older ones NOT playing sister-moms and constant go-fors. They seemed to really love and appreciate their children, and most importantly ENJOY being around them. Although I still think they're extreme, there's such a different feel about this family, IMO. Does that make sense?

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Some women can handle a large family with ease- my grandmother had 11 children and somehow managed to treat them as individuals. My mom and aunt say how she was never frazzled and never yelled or really got upset. She did send her kids to public school, so that probably helped. She always kept a clean house- the kids were expected to each spend 30 minutes a day on assigned chores. I kind of see Kelly as being this type of person- a mother who enjoys being a homemaker and truly enjoys her children.

My mom and my aunt were like Michelle. My aunt she had 10 little heathens who just ran wild in her very messy house. She constantly complained about how stressed she was doing it all on her own while a small army of family and friends did everything they could to help out. I was sent on a road trip with her family to help when her first 6 kids were still pretty small. She and her husband would go for long walks in the morning to spend quality time together and leave me and their oldest daughter (9) to make breakfast and pack up everything to move on. When we got back my mom went on and on how nice my aunt was to take me on a "vacation" and if looks could kill.....

I often wonder why JB's parents only had two children and why they were so poor. It seems strange that a couple with only two children to support couldn't maintain some sort of financial stability. I wonder if that is one reason why JB is so imaged obsessed, he knows that if their cover is blown the $$$ will walk.

[sockinshoe]

Kelly also seems a lot more content and genuine than Michelle. Yeah, she's nuts, but you get the feeling that she genuinely wants to have all those kids and values their individual personalities and watching them grow through "seasons of life". With Michelle, it all seems very wooden by now. I think the Duggar kids, too, realize that their parents don't really care all that much (well at least their mother). That might prompt them to leave, while the Bateses might think "Well, they are my parents, and they do love me, so I'll stay, because if I leave, I'll break their hearts and never see them again".

[RosyDaisy]

While the Bates do seem more likeable to me in some ways, I do think the considerably less amount of tv exposure, as compared to the Duggars, makes it harder to see signs of rebellion..

This! We've only seen them a few times on 19 KAC and their own 8-episode. The very fact that they have a lot of the same "rules" convinces me they are just as bad as the Dggars. That shit eatin' grin on Kelly's face is very telling to me. Oh, and Gil's grifting for Jesus is worse than JB since he admitted on camera that they borrow money from Lawson.

[pineapple450]

Don't forget that the Bates girls all had/have jobs. Erin teaches piano, Michaela is a full-nanny and Alyssa worked in a flower shop. Not exactly academic pursuit, but its something.

At the same time, however, Gil is on the ATI board, so...

[CorruptionInc.]

I also think that Kelly and Gil are not spending every waking moments of their lives trying to get child number 20 either. I think they are actually trying to be good parents in a way...

...Michelle is always on about number 20. I think she might want to get into the Guiness Book of Records...?! :?

[RosyDaisy]

If their new show on Up (premieres in January, I think) lasts longer than it did on TLC, we might see hints of rebellion and other things.

Speaking of the working women...Jana Duggar is a doula and first responder, Jill is/was a midwife and first responder, and Jessa was a photographer. So, I have to wonder exactly how legit the Bates girls' "jobs" are or if they are exaggerated. If they are actually working, they must have a chaperone. Even Erin needed one while attending college.

Alyssa may not be working at all or working for John's company. Michaela probably babysits only for like-minded people. The same could be said of Erin ad piano lessons.

The key to understanding the Bates family is not in what she posts on her blog but what she doesn't say or is vague about. I have to give them credit for one thing. They really know how to work the southern charm. That is one of main reason they appear more likeable than the Duggars. And let's not forget these are the same people who had pictures of Nathan Bedford Forrest and Stonewall Jackson hanging on their wall. So, no, the Bateses are not more likeable or care more about their kids than the Duggars.

With there new show coming up, the blog and social media sites will go on lock down because of a nondisclosure clause from the network. So, any more blog posts from Kelly will be fewer than before.

[whoviana]

I also think that Kelly and Gil are not spending every waking moments of their lives trying to get child number 20 either. I think they are actually trying to be good parents in a way...

...Michelle is always on about number 20. I think she might want to get into the Guiness Book of Records...?! :?

Nah, she can't. There was a lady who only had multiples (ranging from twins to quadruplets) and she managed to pop out 68 children.

Michelle's tired and bruised uterus has thrown in the towel around the Josie pregnancy. That was a very clear sign, Uterus begging "no mo'".

[whoviana]

Oh, and Gil's grifting for Jesus is worse than JB since he admitted on camera that they borrow money from Lawson.

He isn't borrowing money from his son (ever since he was a mere teenager). He relies on his young son's regular salary. He never ever repays the money to him. Suggesting Lawson that he owes his parents to feed and school and clothe himself, alongside with the rest of the unmarried brood is mightily Christian and traditional.

A kid supporting a 19-member family, that's just... :evil:

Lawson is a multi-talent (in fundieworld) and a hard and smart worker.

With the money he has made so far, and spent feeding his parents kids... he probably could have bought his own house, paid for a decent education and could have saved up for emergency. And, gotten married or just enjoy his life and his earnings. Making your kid feed 21 mouths. Unbelievable.

[delightfullyduggar]

He isn't borrowing money from his son (ever since he was a mere teenager). He relies on his young son's regular salary. He never ever repays the money to him. Suggesting Lawson that he owes his parents to feed and school and clothe himself, alongside with the rest of the unmarried brood is mightily Christian and traditional.

A kid supporting a 19-member family, that's just... :evil:

Lawson is a multi-talent (in fundieworld) and a hard and smart worker.

With the money he has made so far, and spent feeding his parents kids... he probably could have bought his own house, paid for a decent education and could have saved up for emergency. And, gotten married or just enjoy his life and his earnings. Making your kid feed 21 mouths. Unbelievable.

Where can I find a video or article of Gil saying this??

[3 ring circus]

It's about 3/4 of the way through this video

http://www.hulu.com/watch/271402#s-p1-so-i0

[CorruptionInc.]

He isn't borrowing money from his son (ever since he was a mere teenager). He relies on his young son's regular salary. He never ever repays the money to him. Suggesting Lawson that he owes his parents to feed and school and clothe himself, alongside with the rest of the unmarried brood is mightily Christian and traditional.

A kid supporting a 19-member family, that's just... :evil:

Lawson is a multi-talent (in fundieworld) and a hard and smart worker.

With the money he has made so far, and spent feeding his parents kids... he probably could have bought his own house, paid for a decent education and could have saved up for emergency. And, gotten married or just enjoy his life and his earnings. Making your kid feed 21 mouths. Unbelievable.

Even though we knew being a "tree surgeon" wouldn't feed 19 kids, it is NOT up to your son to feed them. NOT. COOL. :angry-banghead: