Why the Bates Kids Haven't Shown Signs of Rebellion

[roddma]

Why haven't any of the Bates kids showed a rebellious side or indicate they disagree with the parents? This is something that strikes me odd given Jinger has rolled her eyes and Joy Anna seems depressed/ dissatisfied sometimes. At least it showed a little with the Duggars kids and of course the Kellers.

[FloraDoraDolly]

We don't see as much of the Bates family, so it's hard to say. But if I had to guess, I think it's because the Bates kids are given a wee bit more space to be individuals and pursue their own interests. Many of them are involved with music or other art forms (filmmaking, crafts), which gives them an outlet to express themselves. Yet at the same time, the kids are still sheltered enough that they aren't widely exposed to other lifestyles/worldviews.

[roddma]

The Bates kids are still limted. They don't have a tv or computer and play classical music. I do believe the Bateses are more musically talented than the Duggars.

[lilith]

I think we just haven't seen it. One of the girls, Tori I think, had a bit if an attitude in the Duggar episodes where they were building their house.

[Sola]

Because what we see is only a small snippet of their real lives. I don't think the Duggar kids truly rebel. Jinger might roll her eyes and Joy might be rather Joy-less, but that isn't rebellion as such. Any true rebellious tendencies have been beaten out of them with the plumbing line. Same with the Bateses.

[johnhugh]

Didn't Smugger rebel by touching a girl and was sent of to a Gothard boot camp and there was a situation when Jim-Boob yanked Josiahout of a live interview when J'chelle announced she had been knocked up again?

As other posters have stated, we only see a small snap shot of their lives and I'm sure if there were any issues when filming they would be edited out.

With the bloggers, Stevie Maxwell is not going to blog that he caught Jessie stealing an Animal cracker out the box...

We will only know if any of them rebel if they escape, i.e. the three Keller escapees.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think its because the Duggar kids have had it rubbed in their faces that there are normal lives outside of Gothardland. Theyve seen so much of the world and met so many different people, so surely they are more aware of the world than normal fundie kids. They see people doing loads of things on their trips that they will never be allowed to do.

[debrand]

These kids have been taught since birth not to act on their own desires or needs. Every part of their lives have been built around ignoring their own instincts. Blanket training breaks a child's autonomy. The extreme modesty or fear of even noticing the opposite sex doesn't just impede their sexuality but also destroys their ability to have their own private thoughts or feelings.

Also, the families do express love for their kids. In order to rebel the kids would not only have to step outside of their training but also give up the only source of support that they know. They aren't just abandoning parents but siblings also.

[redhotmess]

I agree that the Bates' children all seem to have a bit more freedom with their choices. Though they all seem to want to continue drinking the kool-aid. I think Josh has shown the most rebellion, but towards society. He is rebelling against us. I think his horrible, ignorant and insensitive instagram images are rebellious and are directed at liberal society and also mainstream society. It is his way of actually believing he is thinking an original idea and thought since he was so suprressed in his life.

[Stephers831]

I honestly think that the Bates kids haven't had as much exposure to the outside world as the Duggars have. They live in a pretty isolated place, don't associate with mainstream people, and until recently lived very much hand to mouth. I get the feeling that Gil and Kelly would be the type to beat any rebellion out of their children.

[Dev83]

I get the feeling that the Bates actually like each other. I mean they are off their rockers, but I think there is a genuine fondness there that I don't see with the Duggars. Kelly seems to, you know, parent. I wonder if that has more to do with the kids being more satisfied in their lives.

And I agree that there seems to be the tiniest bit of freedom there - I mean, so small you almost miss it. But going to college - even a fundy college - is something the Duggar girls could never dream of.

[Coconut Flan]

Kelly and Gil both finished college and Gil's parents and other family seem relatively normal or at least not Gothardized. Their kids appear to get to be around quite a few aunts, uncles, and cousins who aren't followers of Gothard somewhat regularly. Gil doesn't appear to me to be the politician and image fanatic that Jim Bob is either. I think they are more relaxed and accepting of the children having some choice in life. They also seem to know their children as actual people.

[silverspoons]

Up until recently the Bates went to a normal church weekly and for activites so they have friends or peers to talk to that are non ATI/gothard/quiverfull. The older Bates kids were also not raised in ATI until a certain age so they lived in a normal pants wearing cu-de-sac house in the burbs. I also agree it seems like they have more time with extended non ATI family. Even though we do not see this on the show, if you look at the cousins blogs they do seem to meet up at grandparents house alot.

Maybe it is just me but if I think Gil and Kelly would allow fundie-lite over Jim Bob & Michelle.

[lilith]

Really? When did the Bates family start ATI? I thought Zack and Michaela had been raised in it from day one too.

[Guest Anonymous]

...and there was a situation when Jim-Boob yanked Josiahout of a live interview when J'chelle announced she had been knocked up again?

I've not heard about this one... What happened?

[Ellimenopy]

I've not heard about this one... What happened?

If you notice when Michelle announces to her children that she's pregnant again, the cinematography switches suddenly to a weird, snapshot-style motion. Putting all the pictures together and looking closely shows that Josiah - well, he had a bad reaction. He ran out of the frame, and Jim Bob followed him. When he shows back up in later pictures, his face is red, he's holding his arm, and almost hiding behind his mother. It's clear that the weird film style is covering up Josiah's outburst.

[singsingsing]

I always got the impression that Gil and Kelly became fundamentalists because they thought the system was a nice way to live, whereas Michelle became a fundie because she felt overwhelming guilt for her 'poor' choices and terror of going to hell. It makes a big difference. Kelly always seems a lot more relaxed than Michelle.

[Guest Anonymous]

If you notice when Michelle announces to her children that she's pregnant again, the cinematography switches suddenly to a weird, snapshot-style motion. Putting all the pictures together and looking closely shows that Josiah - well, he had a bad reaction. He ran out of the frame, and Jim Bob followed him. When he shows back up in later pictures, his face is red, he's holding his arm, and almost hiding behind his mother. It's clear that the weird film style is covering up Josiah's outburst.

Yikes. A little sinister... Can you imagine having to find out information like this that affects your life and family at the same time as the entire nation? I want to go look for this video now.

[silverspoons]

Really? When did the Bates family start ATI? I thought Zack and Michaela had been raised in it from day one too.

No they became ATI 10-12 years ago? Gil and Kelly were fundie-lite. They both went to college and graduated. Kelly said early on she wanted a career and maybe only 1-2 kids. Gil got a corporate job for Nabisco and they had a middle class life. She talked about the 2 story house on the cu-de-sac, normal clothes life. So Zac would have been 12-13ish when they switched. Gil decided he needed more time with the kids and left corporate world. I think he did odd jobs until he finally found the calling to be the tree man.

I believe the switch was more because of Gil, he got roped into the quiverful/ATI stuff after some "studying".

[mockingbird]

Kelly and Gil both finished college and Gil's parents and other family seem relatively normal or at least not Gothardized. Their kids appear to get to be around quite a few aunts, uncles, and cousins who aren't followers of Gothard somewhat regularly. Gil doesn't appear to me to be the politician and image fanatic that Jim Bob is either. I think they are more relaxed and accepting of the children having some choice in life. They also seem to know their children as actual people.

Yeah, this. I was also impressed by how they changed their perspective on courtship after Zach's failed courtship. Yes, they are still fundies and still courting, but I liked that they were willing to learn from their mistakes and reconsider their position. Plenty of people don't do that, fundy or not. So maybe that says Zach felt like he could talk to his parents and they would listen to him.

Overall... not trying to make pet fundies, but if I had to live with either the Bateses or the Duggars I'd pick the Bateses.

[lilith]

No they became ATI 10-12 years ago? Gil and Kelly were fundie-lite. They both went to college and graduated. Kelly said early on she wanted a career and maybe only 1-2 kids. Gil got a corporate job for Nabisco and they had a middle class life. She talked about the 2 story house on the cu-de-sac, normal clothes life. So Zac would have been 12-13ish when they switched. Gil decided he needed more time with the kids and left corporate world. I think he did odd jobs until he finally found the calling to be the tree man.

I believe the switch was more because of Gil, he got roped into the quiverful/ATI stuff after some "studying".

That's very interesting.

But they never used contraception, so they must have always had some extremist tendencies.

It makes me curious about Michaela and Zack. They must be aware that they have options for a different life and family who would support them in exploring those options. I wonder what is keeping them from seeking some freedom?

[miffy]

Everything the Duggars pretend to be, the Bates actually are.

[Kitty]

Everything the Duggars pretend to be, the Bates actually are.

Yeah, this. I think the Bates are a lot more hands-on and let their kids be themselves. Kelly and Gil don't seem to have utterly enslaved their eldest daughters. They seem to value education (as much as ATI allows, anyway) and the arts. They haven't totally whored themselves out to television networks at the expense of their children's educations, privacy, or well-being.

The Duggars? Their kids aren't well-educated, their appearance has changed a lot over the years from '90s prairiemuffin to fairly trendy, and they're constantly treated as a singular unit rather than 19 individuals.

[Patsy]

Yikes. A little sinister... Can you imagine having to find out information like this that affects your life and family at the same time as the entire nation? I want to go look for this video now.

GryffindorFTW's awesome break-down of frames here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4645&start=760

[RosyDaisy]

This makes no sense, who in their right mind would deliberately give up a good middle class lifestyle, especially with kids to raise. That takes some serious brainwashing. I don't agree that their children have more freedom that the Duggars. They just aren't in our faces like the Duggars. What perceived freedoms we are seeing are nothing more that fuck you internet moments. I have absolutely no doubt that if one of the Bates kids stepped out of line they would be shunned. Also, it was pretty evident when they visited grandma and grandpa that they were more than ready for the grandkids to leave.