Six Weeks in ATI Russia - merged

[VooDooChild]

They're not blessings, they're arrows.

Of course. Silly me. They are objects (pawns maybe?) not people.

[formergothardite]

I don't think that there was a big Russian following. It was more of an orphanage staffed by untrained teens.

[fakepigtails73]

A few weeks back I read in a magazine (was it in the New Yorker??) that one of the country that is converting "en masse" to fundie pentacostalism is Guatemala. This has been going on since the 80s. It might even become in a couple of years the first hispanic country with a protestant majority.

Granted, Guatemala is not a Eastern Euro. country, but I'm so not surprised that ATI and others rush into countries that are coming out of upheavals. They (not ATI per se, but similar-minded orgs.) tried to do the same thing in Haiti after the 2010 earthquake. Remember the fundie Baptist woman accused of kidnapping kids for American adoptions?

I really hate it when charity is conditionnal upon accepting a new religion, a radical lifestyle change or a political philosophy. No one should have to become "saved" if they don't want to change their faith (or lack of) when they're starving for a hot meal.

[formergothardite]

Russia is where Gothard got claims that if your children are raised in ATI, their eyes will shine so bright that people will notice. He claimed Russian officials stopped and told him that they could see such a huge difference in the ATI students and that their eyes shone.

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

Russia is where Gothard got claims that if your children are raised in ATI, their eyes will shine so bright that people will notice. He claimed Russian officials stopped and told him that they could see such a huge difference in the ATI students and that their eyes shone.

That is so weird. Do your eyes shine brightly, FG, due to ATI? If not, I think you're owed a refund. :D

[ILoveJellybeans]

Ive never seen shining eyes in kids raised in ATI. More often than not, the kids are smiling, but theres sadness in their eyes.

[formergothardite]

Sadly, they do not. And NO ONE came up and offered me a job based on my countenance. In fact, my countenance was never even brought up at any of the jobs I had.

[pamplemousse]

Russia is where Gothard got claims that if your children are raised in ATI, their eyes will shine so bright that people will notice. He claimed Russian officials stopped and told him that they could see such a huge difference in the ATI students and that their eyes shone.

Maybe their eyes were shining with tears of misery. Not that he'd have cared.

[SisiL78]

A few weeks back I read in a magazine (was it in the New Yorker??) that one of the country that is converting "en masse" to fundie pentacostalism is Guatemala. This has been going on since the 80s. It might even become in a couple of years the first hispanic country with a protestant majority.

Granted, Guatemala is not a Eastern Euro. country, but I'm so not surprised that ATI and others rush into countries that are coming out of upheavals. They (not ATI per se, but similar-minded orgs.) tried to do the same thing in Haiti after the 2010 earthquake. Remember the fundie Baptist woman accused of kidnapping kids for American adoptions?

I really hate it when charity is conditionnal upon accepting a new religion, a radical lifestyle change or a political philosophy. No one should have to become "saved" if they don't want to change their faith (or lack of) when they're starving for a hot meal.

To be fair Russia is a hotbed of cult recruitment. Mormons, seventh day Adventists, Jehovah's witnesses, and otters have been there for years too. My future SIL is a 7th day converted in Romania and her family are batshit crazy. Although I'd rather be 7th day or Mormon over ATI.... but that's no ringing endorsement. ATI wanted their share of souls and cash too.

[Maul the Koala]

Well, you do have a point about the clothes. :lol: If I were stealthy with a camera, I would totally start a Russian fashion blog next time I'm there. Two years ago, I saw a lady going to work in a sparkly ball gown. And the fishnets with sandals, ohgodohgodohgod. And I did get bitchfaced for wearing flats a few times. ;)

But that being said, conservative Protestantism has in fact gained ground in Russia in the past 30 years. I can dig up some articles from my files if people are interested. You're right that a lot of people have that "bitch, please" attitude towards foreigners peddling their religion, but there were also a lot of people who were "seeking" and did not have roots in the ROC in the post-Soviet years who found these sects very attractive. Part of it is, I think, the "American" allure for some people - especially with Mormonism and groups of that type. There was a sort of prosperity Gospel attraction about following an American religion - I guess that's the way I can best describe it.

I think it's also feasible that ATI might relax its standards at least for the first generation of Russian converts so that women can wear more of what they want. There is actually not much correlation drawn between what you wear and what your "reputation" is in Russian culture. Most Russian young people remain, IMO, downright archaic about gender norms (which another attraction of ATI), yet wearing a minidress or baring cleavage does not make you an automatic "slut". You should see what some of the girls wear to church - right along with a headscarf. All this to say that as much I would like to believe the latter, the idea of there developing an entrenched (albeit small) group of ATI families in Russia over is not totally improbable.There are many aspects of it that either reinforce the culture or can be adjusted until the next generation.

I remember talking to Mormon missionaries and a lot of the young girls/women that are baptized into the LDS Church in Russia don't exactly walk the talk.

We had the perceptions of North American and especially North American men rattled off many times. There is this huge ideal, at least there was when I was studying there, that surrounds North American culture. Men don't beat their wives in North America (this was a BIG one). Everyone has nice expensive cars. And so on and so forth.

While I don't think it's impossible that ATI could take foothold, I do think it would die out very fast just because I don't think the current economic conditions would permit things like leaving birth control up to 'God' and so on. I'm inclined to think it's more along the lines of the Duggars and their El Salvador trips. Come, take pictures with the poor little orphans, pretend you did something, go see Red Square, leave.

And YES. Oh my goodness. You win at the sparkly ballgown. One of the women at my university did her make up exactly like a matryoshka doll. I am not kidding. Some of the female profs wore clothing that was more appropriate for clubbing than for teaching and these were women in their 40s and 50s. Love it. I bought clothing there and still couldn't blend in because I couldn't walk in stilettos for long periods of time. Very few of the females I was with were people who wore make up on a daily basis. After a couple of days we were all trying to make sure we always had make up on wherever we went. Peer pressure for the win.

[gustava]

Does anyone know the street address for ATI/St. Petersburg?

[formergothardite]

Pretty sure it closed down a long time ago, he just keeps it up on his website so he will look more important than he is.

[kittypie]

http://www.recoveringgrace dot org/2013/01/potemkin-village-mtc/

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Witsec7]

Here in the PNW we have a huge Russian immigrant population. Most have moved to pentecostal in terms of faith, as opposed to our resident Old Believers. They are very political in terms of marriage equality and equal benefits for GLBTs in the workplace. I'll have to do some field research when the weather gets better and find out how deep they are in ATI.

[sassycupcake]

There is already a thread on this, it's just gotten bumped to the second page.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14776

[kittypie]

I would love to hear about your field research.

This just pisses me off so much. The exploitation, the lies. I will not be at all surprised when some sex scandal finally comes out about Gothard, because don't you just KNOW it will? :evil: :evil: :evil:

[kittypie]

There is already a thread on this, it's just gotten bumped to the second page.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14776

I'm sorry, I didn't look far enough or use the "search" function. My apologies. :oops: