Six Weeks in ATI Russia - merged

[formergothardite]

Recovering Grace has a story from a woman who went to live in Russia, her parents, sensing something was wrong went over there. Her mother first, then her dad and they stayed six weeks, despite ATI not being really happy about that. I really, really wanted to go to Russia when I was in ATI because they made it sound so cool and amazing. We saw videos and it seemed like the most awesome place ever and on top of getting to go to Russia you would get to help make the life of an orphan better.

 

But this interview shows what it was really like and I am so glad I didn't go. The dad in this interview does seem a tad of a jerk, with him telling the mom that she had to stay even after she said she was scared and wanted to come home right away. But it gives an idea of what a scary, controlling cult ATI really is and the Gothard defenders can't dismiss this as just being rebellious, bitter teens.

 

At these training centers, all communications are heavily monitored. And, in my experience, they would also withhold being able to contact parents as a punishment. That happened when I was in the Dallas training center.

 

Not only did I have no idea how to tell my parents what was happening, but also much of my communication with them was monitored. Regular mail came and went through ATI/IBLP Headquarters and was all opened. Faxes and e-mails were to be given to someone else to send. However, since I worked in the office, I found ways to send faxes to my parents at night. A person known to monitor and report the contents of calls would always just happen to be the phone room while I was making a call.

 

From the mother on when they started to suspect something was very wrong:

 

Something else that tipped me off was when I started raving about the wonderful story in the [ATI] newsletter I had just received, and you tersely responded that this was not at all what had happened.

 

Gothard flat out lies in these newsletters.

 

As I look back, there were things that should have tipped me off. For one, they [iBLP/ATI Headquarters staff] didn't want to let me purchase my own ticket, because they wanted the frequent flyer miles. They didn't know they were dealing the original Mrs. Scrooge, and I insisted, and I ended up purchasing my own ticket. They also wanted to limit the length of my stay. They informed me that "most parents stayed only  for a short amount of time. I ended up staying for six weeks in spite of their 'encouragement' otherwise. In order to fit in, I got a perm so I would have curls.

 

My greeting at the MTC was being pulled aside by a very "concerned" staff mother who informed me, "Mrs. Hall, I can tell that Diana came from a good home, but she's fallen in with the wrong crowd."

 

I have no idea how many times I have heard this being done to make the parents not want to believe what the teen/adult child says.

 

Totally controlling, everyone living in fear, super amount of kissing up. Then Bill Gothard showed up traveling with a young lady he would walk around alone with, and I thought, "This is highly inappropriate!" Then I began to notice that her clothes and makeup were not held to the same strict standard as the rest of the girls.

 

Gothard, totally not able to travel without a teen girl to keep him company.

 

On how students there were punished:

 

young man forced to repeatedly sweep a not-really-dirty sidewalk to keep him down and break his spirit,

 

the case of a girl who was treated as "almost an LIT" [Leader in Training] having to get up to clean toilets at 4 a.m. as punishment for one candy wrapper someone else threw in her garbage can between the time she cleaned and the time of room check,

 

One of the final blows was a situation that happened while we were visiting St. Petersburg. One of the students did something that was against the rules. It was not a horrible or evil thing, but it was against the rules. This student's parents were about to come visit, as already arranged, and in spite of their begging to be allowed to arrive before he made a final decision, Bill sent the student home immediately. He then proceeded to lie about the student's past in front of a general meeting at the training center, and defamed this student's character. Any respect we might have still had for Bill at this point was totally gone

 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/01/ ... llage-mtc/

 

All the Duggar/Bates fans who think that ATI is just a innocent homeschool group needs to read this and see what it is really like. It is a cult, a dangerous cult.

[Emme]

This reminds me of the doc that came out on those poor gay kids whose parents sent them to another country for a similar program. Ugh. Controlling, terrifying, and just plain WRONG. What the FUCK.

I bet part of the reason they choose Russia is because you do NOT interfere with other peoples business there. If you see someone smack their kid, you don't do anything. Here, people are far more nosy.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Ive been reading about the conditions in these ATI training places on Recovering Grace...stories of kids being paddled and locked in the prayer closet for days at a time. Its terrible.

Gothard is a total creep, he should never be allowed around children.

[snarkyjan]

Ive been reading about the conditions in these ATI training places on Recovering Grace...stories of kids being paddled and locked in the prayer closet for days at a time. Its terrible.

Gothard is a total creep, he should never be allowed around children.

Not just children. He should not be trusted around anything with a pulse.

[VooDooChild]

Totally disgusting! It's sad that the leg humpers are too blind to see this.

[NjoyingNsanity]

I'm really curious about Gothard traveling alone with some young girl as his "assistant" and why aren't more ATI parents aware of asking the same questions and having the same "something's rotten in Denmark" reaction?

[SisiL78]

Totally disgusting! It's sad that the leg humpers are too blind to see this.

And if they see this they will say that its an isolated case, or that the people have an ax to grind for other reasons and are making this up and/or exaggerating it. They will say that the Duggars are not part of this or that. They will justify their leghumping and idolization no matter what comes out to dispute it.

In fact I think that if one of the Duggar kids themselves came out and spoke of abuses at home and via ATI the leghumpers would just say that there's always a rotten apple in the bunch and dismiss that kid completely.

[formergothardite]

I'm really curious about Gothard traveling alone with some young girl as his "assistant" and why aren't more ATI parents aware of asking the same questions and having the same "something's rotten in Denmark" reaction?

I'm not sure why they are not asking about this NOW, but at the time, people just didn't know. Parents were really kept in the dark and the students were too afraid to say anything. And the ones who did say things had already been labled as trouble makers who were filled with bitterness and trying to destroy Gothard so the chances of being believes were lower. Gothard is many things, but dumb is not one of them. Everything he did/does can usually be explained away as just being innocent and there is something wrong with people who think otherwise. He is a master manipulator.

[GeoBQn]

This is making me think of a part of "America After Meritocracy" in which a survivor of sexual abuse from a priest was talking with other survivors. She told them that as a teenager, when she went to the head of her Toledo parish, the guy responded, "You're the first person who has ever brought this up." A 2nd person said, "That's what they told me at my parish in Oakland, that I was the first person who ever brought it up." A 3rd person said, "Don't you see what's happening? We couldn't ALL be the first person!" If Gothard hire-ups just keep telling kids and their parents that nobody has ever complained about this before, then that's enough to make victims question the validity of their complaints.

[hope kelly]

Totally disgusting!

[formergothardite]

And these are also often very sheltered 14/15 year olds who were told it was such a privilage to be sent to work for Gothard. So there they were, young, away from home for the first time, pretty much cut off from communicating with their family, having their "spirit broken", all with Gothard sending out these newsletters to the parents lying about what is going on, so it is easy to see how they could question that maybe there really wasn't anything wrong, maybe this was all normal.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Not just children. He should not be trusted around anything with a pulse.

True, even without the accusations of sexual abuse, his teachings are still evil and dangerous, and a bad influence on people.

And if they see this they will say that its an isolated case, or that the people have an ax to grind for other reasons and are making this up and/or exaggerating it. They will say that the Duggars are not part of this or that. They will justify their leghumping and idolization no matter what comes out to dispute it.

In fact I think that if one of the Duggar kids themselves came out and spoke of abuses at home and via ATI the leghumpers would just say that there's always a rotten apple in the bunch and dismiss that kid completely.

I think thats why the abuses arent reported, because his target audience dont take children seriously and see them as evil. Abuse is seen as normal, so if a kid reported being beaten or locked in the prayer closet, the parents would just think they did something wrong, got punished, and are exaggerating the awfulness of it. Gothard is God to them, so they would just dismiss it. Also the majority of ATI families do the same to their kids at home, and the kids only ever get to talk to other fundies, so they dont know that in the real world beating a child with plumbing line is abusive.

If a girl reported getting molested by Gothard on a visit to ATI headquarters, they wouldnt take it seriously, as Gothard is meant to be a godly man, and theyd blame the girl for defrauding him (even if she was wearing a frumper), as they tend to be big on victim blaming and say it was because she is slutty and asking for it. He also seems to do it in a way that seems innocent, all of the reports dont involve him touching them anywhere private, so he could just say he was being friendly.

The children sent there are also usually sent there for being troublesome or rebellious, so that would make people accuse them of lying even more.

[argypargy]

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I got to this and it struck me as odd. As a father (or mother) I think I would have had more than a slight indication my daughter was under stress.

Dad: Then we had a slight indication that you were under stress when you would call home just to cry on the phone.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Two things two say with my Russian/Slavist cap on, one serious and one not so much:

1. There is a deeply ingrained culture of child abuse in Russia. I shudder to think of a system like ATI taking root to just further institutionalize and "sacralize" this abuse. The combination of that and the general cultural tendency towards a binary system of values does, unfortunately, make Russia quite fertile ground for Gothardism.

2. The mom got a PERM to "fit in" in Russia? WTF? Because while I'm a big-haired Russian girl, we do not all look like that, nor will anyone be able to tell you are not Russian if you have straight hair. (There are many better ways to pick out an American. ;) )

[formergothardite]

I think the perm was to fit in with ATI, that was a big thing at the time.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I think the perm was to fit in with ATI, that was a big thing at the time.

:lol: That makes much more sense.

[MarthaMarcyMayMarlen]

I'm really curious about Gothard traveling alone with some young girl as his "assistant" and why aren't more ATI parents aware of asking the same questions and having the same "something's rotten in Denmark" reaction?

This! A grown man should not be left alone with a teen girl all the time.

[fakepigtails73]

I'm not gonna quote your original post formergothardite, but it is scary that ATI has some "nests" (weird choice of word I know, but I can't think of anthing else) in Russia. I imagine that it's not very popular in a country where the population is either staunch atheists or agnostics, or staunch Russian Orthodox. Add some Muslim communities in the interior Caucasus and I wonder which part of the Russian population does Gothard target. :think:

And what's the deal with the perms? Bill G. seems to have a major curly hair fetish, doesn't he??

[Irishy]

I don't know if ATI are in Romania, but I have a Romanian friend. She told me, once ceaucescu (sp) was dead, the evangelicals and Pentecostals flooded in. I just wonder if people released from dictatorship are somehow more vulnerable to joining a religious group like this. Which would have been banned under communism. Are these Eastern European countries easy pickings?

[GeoBQn]

ATI is in Romania. Some of the Bates girls went on a "mission trip" there.

[Maul the Koala]

I don't know if ATI are in Romania, but I have a Romanian friend. She told me, once ceaucescu (sp) was dead, the evangelicals and Pentecostals flooded in. I just wonder if people released from dictatorship are somehow more vulnerable to joining a religious group like this. Which would have been banned under communism. Are these Eastern European countries easy pickings?

They 'think' it is easy pickings but I've found most Russians are suspicious of the new religions flooding in. Having an ATI centre there seems almost futile. Most Russian girls and women would refuse to wear frumpers or that supposedly stylish modest wear the Duggar slaves peddle. :lol:

[thekate]

I don't know if ATI are in Romania, but I have a Romanian friend. She told me, once ceaucescu (sp) was dead, the evangelicals and Pentecostals flooded in. I just wonder if people released from dictatorship are somehow more vulnerable to joining a religious group like this. Which would have been banned under communism. Are these Eastern European countries easy pickings?

I went to Romania on a mission/community service trip* about 10 years ago (so about 10 years after Ceacescu? fell) and my personal observations there would support this. We were supposed to be preparing a site for the construction of a youth center, but the "pastor" would take us away from the site most days so that he could talk about was how he wanted us Americans to have all our friends and family send money. He lived in a huge, fancy house in a gated community with multiple expensive cars, servants, etc. He was basically stepping into the role of the former ruling class.

My friend and I stayed with one family in the church who were very poor--no car, run down apartment, 2 small bedrooms for 7 people, etc., but very kind and generous and looking for something meaningful that they had been denied under communist rule. I think they and some of the rest of the congregation were also looking for rules and structure in their lives because that is what they were used to.

Halfway through the trip, the group was so thoroughly disgusted with the hypocrisy and entitlement of the pastor we had a vote on whether or not to continue. We decided we would finish clearing the site, since that was our stated goal/promise, but no more being taken away from the site by the "pastor" and cutting all ties once we left.

I hope things have improved in both the country and that congregation since then. I still worry about that family.

*Obviously not ATI, but a liberal Christian group at college that my best friend was a member of. I was the token atheist. When not hanging out with my friend, I mostly hung out with the token Jew.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

They 'think' it is easy pickings but I've found most Russians are suspicious of the new religions flooding in. Having an ATI centre there seems almost futile. Most Russian girls and women would refuse to wear frumpers or that supposedly stylish modest wear the Duggar slaves peddle. :lol:

Well, you do have a point about the clothes. :lol: If I were stealthy with a camera, I would totally start a Russian fashion blog next time I'm there. Two years ago, I saw a lady going to work in a sparkly ball gown. And the fishnets with sandals, ohgodohgodohgod. And I did get bitchfaced for wearing flats a few times. ;)

But that being said, conservative Protestantism has in fact gained ground in Russia in the past 30 years. I can dig up some articles from my files if people are interested. You're right that a lot of people have that "bitch, please" attitude towards foreigners peddling their religion, but there were also a lot of people who were "seeking" and did not have roots in the ROC in the post-Soviet years who found these sects very attractive. Part of it is, I think, the "American" allure for some people - especially with Mormonism and groups of that type. There was a sort of prosperity Gospel attraction about following an American religion - I guess that's the way I can best describe it.

I think it's also feasible that ATI might relax its standards at least for the first generation of Russian converts so that women can wear more of what they want. There is actually not much correlation drawn between what you wear and what your "reputation" is in Russian culture. Most Russian young people remain, IMO, downright archaic about gender norms (which another attraction of ATI), yet wearing a minidress or baring cleavage does not make you an automatic "slut". You should see what some of the girls wear to church - right along with a headscarf. All this to say that as much I would like to believe the latter, the idea of there developing an entrenched (albeit small) group of ATI families in Russia over is not totally improbable.There are many aspects of it that either reinforce the culture or can be adjusted until the next generation.

[VooDooChild]

And if they see this they will say that its an isolated case, or that the people have an ax to grind for other reasons and are making this up and/or exaggerating it. They will say that the Duggars are not part of this or that. They will justify their leghumping and idolization no matter what comes out to dispute it.

In fact I think that if one of the Duggar kids themselves came out and spoke of abuses at home and via ATI the leghumpers would just say that there's always a rotten apple in the bunch and dismiss that kid completely.

They do have the astonishing ability to not see what is directly in front of them. If children are such a blessing, as fundies insist they are, then you would think they would be pouncing all over even the slightest suggestion that one their blessings was being harmed.

[thekate]

They do have the astonishing ability to not see what is directly in front of them. If children are such a blessing, as fundies insist they are, then you would think they would be pouncing all over even the slightest suggestion that one their blessings was being harmed.

They're not blessings, they're arrows.