Gothard's health claims and cure stories

[skinch]

From the David and Priscilla thread:

 

Visionoyahweh said:

I wonder how they can make health claims without running afoul of the law. I admit I don't have any idea how far they can go, but claiming you super Jesus seminar will 'resolve heath issues' is dicey. Will it cure cancer? Gayness? Blindness?

 

The health claims of IBLP bother me; I wish they could be called out on it.

lifepurposeheath is full of dangerous nonsense.

There is a disclaimer at the foot of the site that (unfortunately) probably saves them from ever being pursued legally for publishing such dreadful twaddle.

 

there's a testimony about the link between envy and osteoporosis

lifepurposehealth.com/index.php

 

they cite a doctor who links his own cancer with the unresolved grief for his son's death (apparently the doctor has now been struck off for malpractice, but Bill doesn't mention that)

lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/purpose/mystery_of_disease/

 

they link the suicide of a heart transplant recipient to the fact that the donor had also committed suicide and the recipient inherited the donor's emotions with the transplanted heart

lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/memories/power_of_memories/

 

a teenage abuse victim is persuaded that the abuse to her body was worth it because God compensated by giving her the "potential for a more powerful spirit". She is thus healed of her depression. The character qualities that her abusers were lacking are listed and the girl prayed that the abusers develop these qualities; this 'neutralized' the 'negative influence' of the abuse.

lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/memories/case_study_overcoming_abuse/

 

Mr Gothard and 'entire staff at the IBLP headquarters' prayed away a young woman's angina and asthma.

lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/memories/overcoming_fear_and_asthma/

 

Interestingly, although the woman describes her illness using the words 'angina' and 'arrhythmia', Dr Paine (soon to be Princess Erin's father-in-law) manages to provide a medical opinion of her healing that side-steps some of the nonsense. He notes only that the patient managed to remove 'hypersensitivities' that caused her blocked airways. He should have come down more honestly and said that she had panic attacks and that the prayer relieved her anxiety. He ought to have made clear that prayer is unlikely to resolve the atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) that leads to a diagnosis of angina. Shame on you Dr Paine. If your medical opinion is that this woman had angina and was cured, then say so after all, that's what the design of the webpage encourages readers to 'see'. If, however, your medical opinion is that she did not have coronary heart disease at all, and that she was cured of breathlessness associated with panic and anxiety, then don't you think you should make that transparent?

 

If I knew how I'd archive or screencap some of the wackier claims, because I'm sure they'll get edited away if IBLP gets publicly embarrassed by them.

As it is, the lifepurposecrazynonsensehealth site isn't obviously linkable from the IBLP homepage. Perhaps Bill's changed his mind and it's a fad that he's about ready to disown. From what formergotharite and others have said I get the feeling that a significant proportion of IBLP teaching is based on Gothard's passing whims.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Gothard should stick to things he knows about. Hes not a doctor so shouldnt make health claims. Hes not married and has no kids, so he shouldnt talk about how to have the perfect marriage and raise well behaved children.

OK, all he does know about is cult leadership and molesting naive SAHD's.

He should just STFU then.

[Ex 2x2]

This makes me so angry. What this basically communicates to people is, "If you are sick, it is your fault! You have sin in your life. You didn't pray hard enough. Love God more and your sickness will go away!" Which is pure BS. His stuff on adoption is just as sickening. And on infertility. :roll: He used to teach that if you were infertile, it could be b/c you played with Cabbage Patch Dolls. (Hmm, Maybe he's onto something...I'm infertile and I played with cabbage patch dolls! wow, he's a genius! :roll: )

Eta: HOW does this nut get people to follow him?? For those who have seen him or seen his videos, is he the kind of person who you can see attracting people? He certainly doesn't look like it...he looks creepy as all get out. What is it about him??

[doggie]

people like him pray in ignorance and gullibility. Religion brings that out in spade.

the best thing he could do is check himself in at the nearest mental health facility.

[NurseNell]

there's a testimony about the link between envy and osteoporosis

lifepurposehealth.com/index.php

"I had so much pain in my shoulders that I could not lift my arms above my head. Often, my wife had to help me get dressed.

When I learned the relationship between musculoskeletal diseases and envy, I cleared up the envy. Nine days later, the pain was completely gone; I even threw overhand passes with my sons without pain!"

Musculoskeletal diseases affect the body's muscles, joints, tendons, ligaments and/or nerves. That is not what osteoporosis is. Osteoporosis involves bone density, with the bones being less dense due to deficiencies in calcium and minerals.

[formergothardite]

My favorite one was in the now deleted(I think) blog about their last trip to Peru where Gothard claims he goes and talks to neurologists, shares about the stomach/brain connection and they heal a child by by putting part of his stomach into his brain.

And then there is his claim that a Jewish doctor proved that all mental illnesses come from being selfish. He, of course, provided no proof of who this doctor is or how he conducted his studies.

[MamaJunebug]

So, srsly --how do we screen cap these outrageous claims? This guy has got to be exposed for the loose-skinned flimflammer that he is!

[docmom]

This makes me so angry. What this basically communicates to people is, "If you are sick, it is your fault! You have sin in your life. You didn't pray hard enough. Love God more and your sickness will go away!" Which is pure BS.

Quite. As any person in the medical field will tell you, the nastier you are, the better you do. All the really nice patients have horrible diseases and die. Oh wait, maybe these guys are right after all...

[argypargy]

people like him pray in ignorance and gullibility. Religion brings that out in spade.

the best thing he could do is check himself in at the nearest mental health facility.

This. I would also add that people with a lot of insecurities will sometimes turn to religion like this. Almost like co-dependent behavior.

[freealljs]

So if Bill Gothard has a heart attack, does that mean he will stave off all forms of modern medical care and pray to God to stop the heart attack?

[doggie]

So if Bill Gothard has a heart attack, does that mean he will stave off all forms of modern medical care and pray to God to stop the heart attack?

no this is a case of do as I say not as I do.

[zoestercoaster]

I think I've mentioned it before, but I remember going to Basic Life Principles seminar and looking at all the fliers and booklets they had for sale. I picked up booklet about approaching cancer. No joke, they had a "testimonial" of a guy who ~*cured*~ his cancer by eating veggies and jumping on a trampoline. No shit.

My ex-fiance was raised ATI/IBLP and his parents took his natural cures thing hook, line, and sinker. Until that is, he got a life-threatening MRSA infection and nearly lost his leg because they spent too long trying to treat it with "natural cures."

[lilith]

If osteoporosis is caused by envy Michelle Duggar must have some serious envy issues. Maybe she's envying those women who didn't have 19 kids and who still have a purpose in their life once their child bearing years are over.....

[Visionoyahweh]

If osteoporosis is caused by envy Michelle Duggar must have some serious envy issues. Maybe she's envying those women who didn't have 19 kids and who still have a purpose in their life once their child bearing years are over.....

Not to mention the Jubilee miscarriage.

[Three and Done]

Gee, who knew I could cure my demyelinating disease, cervical and lumbar herniated discs, depression, etc. by being "Godly" enough! :roll:

I sure could save a TON of money on surgeries, prescription drugs, and doctor visits if I just learn how to pray it all away!

[Kitty]

Since I already have anxiety issues thanks to genetic predisposition being an atheist, I guess the mild asthma I was diagnosed with at age five is really panic attacks. Funny how smoke, cold air and illness just make me randomly have 'panic attacks' :roll:

Oh, and since I was born female a horrible, lowly worthless sinner, there must be some sin in my life to explain the asthma. Maybe I managed to defraud someone as a five-year-old girl. Seems to be the root of any Gothardite woman's problem.

I'd love to see them explain my other physical and mental maladies. Especially this awful cold I have right now.

[formergothardite]

Since I already have anxiety issues thanks to genetic predisposition being an atheist, I guess the mild asthma I was diagnosed with at age five is really panic attacks. Funny how smoke, cold air and illness just make me randomly have 'panic attacks' :roll:

Oh, and since I was born female a horrible, lowly worthless sinner, there must be some sin in my life to explain the asthma. Maybe I managed to defraud someone as a five-year-old girl. Seems to be the root of any Gothardite woman's problem.

I'd love to see them explain my other physical and mental maladies. Especially this awful cold I have right now.

It was the sins of your father being passed down to you. So you didn't actually have to do anything as a child to have bad things happen to you, you father can pass his sins to you. That is why Gothard used to be against adoption so much because you were bringing unknown sins into your house since this child would be inheriting their father's sins.

[heidi]

It was the sins of your father being passed down to you. So you didn't actually have to do anything as a child to have bad things happen to you, you father can pass his sins to you. That is why Gothard used to be against adoption so much because you were bringing unknown sins into your house since this child would be inheriting their father's sins.

The "inheriting the sins of the father" thing is what really gets me. I've read through the Bible a few times and the new testament several times, and I don't remember anything like that in the Bible at all. That idea strips grace right out of the picture. The premise of grace is an interesting one, that sins don't matter, once grace is received a person is right with God. From my reading, that's pretty central to the whole Jesus thing. How can Gothard just chuck it out like this? And how can his followers believe him when they've probably got Bibles of their own up the wazoo and can flip one open and fact check him?

[formergothardite]

Here is a site that explains his teachings a little more:

In one of his alumni booklets, Gothard states, “We were in Adam and a part of his sin.â€9 The imputation of Adam’s sin to the human race is stated somewhat differently in Romans 5. That this has anything to do with the D.N.A. ladder, as Gothard goes on to state, is debatable. But Gothard’s point is the extension of our solidarity with Adam. This, he believes, indicates that we and our physical children are under some kind of direct consequence, not just the social or environmental consequences, of our forefathers’ acts of sinning. That being so, according to Gothard, we must agree with God about their sin and ask Him “to remove its consequences from us and from our children.â€

To enforce this view, Gothard cites the story of a 3-year-old girl who “did not want to believe in Jesus†until the parents realized their need to confess their sins and the sins of their forefathers. His use of

Gothard emphasizes sins visited “upon the children unto the third and fourth generation†and neither emphasizes nor explains the pregnant phrase, “of them that hate me.â€

Here he teaches that the new parents of an adopted child must research the sins of the “biological parents,†confessing them and casting the consequences off the child. He says:

“Causes of Conflicts — Adopted children are affected by the sins of their natural parents, and these sins are usually very severe.â€

Then he goes on to say that if the adopted child is old enough, “Explain that just as physical weaknesses are passed down through parents, so are spiritual weaknesses such as pride, lust and rejection

http://www.pfo.org/evol-fad.htm

And since pride, envy, and lust causes health problems, well, if a small child has these health problems it could be from the father. That makes total sense. :roll: :lol:

[heidi]

That's just ass backwards.

[gibbsgirls]

The "inheriting the sins of the father" thing is what really gets me. I've read through the Bible a few times and the new testament several times, and I don't remember anything like that in the Bible at all. That idea strips grace right out of the picture. The premise of grace is an interesting one, that sins don't matter, once grace is received a person is right with God. From my reading, that's pretty central to the whole Jesus thing. How can Gothard just chuck it out like this? And how can his followers believe him when they've probably got Bibles of their own up the wazoo and can flip one open and fact check him?

[Jessica]

Don't forget! Removing Cabbage Patch Dolls from your home will cure you of any fertility issues!

[Trynn]

I've run into this before, in conservative Seventh Day Adventism. Apparently Ellen White (who they believe is a prophet) says that it is a sin to get sick. I think the reasoning was something like, "if you follow the health laws, you won't get sick. Not following the health laws is a sin, therefore it is a sin to let yourself get sick."

I tried to reason with the guy by saying that some people's immune systems just don't work that way, and he argued with me saying that if they follow the health laws (proper nutrition, sufficient sleep, not being stressed) even people with weak immune systems won't get sick, and that people only get sick from being around other sick people if they're not following the health laws.

He was very stubborn about it, and I have trouble articulating things. I ended up storming away in tears.

[skinch]

Musculoskeletal diseases affect the body's muscles, joints, tendons, ligaments and/or nerves. That is not what osteoporosis is. Osteoporosis involves bone density, with the bones being less dense due to deficiencies in calcium and minerals.

Exactly.

It's semi-plausible that muscle tension and pain could be affected by improving one's emotional health - I'm sure prayer does improve some people's levels of tension - but the bolded heading "Envy and Osteoporosis" totally misleads the reader into thinking that the Gothard-approved prayer will cure osteoporosis. Another misleading bolded headline on the same site is "Warts and Guilt".

Anyone know who Mr Maddox is? In the video of the young woman who says prayer cured her ("since I was 6 years old I was often sick with angina"), she mentions (via the translator) that Mr Gothard and Mr Maddox prayed with her. I think the video is a few years old, so Maddox may no longer be around.