Driscoll On Abortion

[debrand]

Driscoll covered a lot of subjects in this transcript of his service. When I started reading, I assumed that there would be nothing particularly offensive in the subject matter but I was wrong.

The horror, the outrage, the grief for the twenty should be for all, all innocents who have been slaughtered. We live in a profoundly conflicted day. I was thinking about that recently, Prince William and his wife, Kate, are pregnant and Britain rejoices. I wonder if there would be a response if they now had an abortion because they’re young, or perhaps the child had Down Syndrome, or it wasn’t a good season for them. Children are not more valuable because they come from royal blood.

If the royal couple decided to abort their child, I doubt that we would know. It would be a private issue between the two of them. However, if they made such a decision, I would support them.

and

For those of you that have had an abortion, or those of you men who have encouraged an abortion, or driven a woman to an abortion, or funded an abortion, or impregnated a woman with no intention of raising that child and thereby contributing to abortion, you’re a Herod, you’re a murderer. You’ve murdered a child. You’ve murdered a child.

Whatever anger you have toward the events in Connecticut is, to be consistent and not hypocritical, the same kind of anger you should have for yourself. If you ask questions like, “How could he do that?†you need to also ask, “How could I do that?†If you ask questions like, “Why would he do that?†you’ve gotta ask, “Why did I do that?†If you ask a question like, “Who kills a child?†you have to also ask, “Why have I killed a child, my child?â€

and

Now for those of you who are murderers, don’t argue, don’t give excuses, don’t give reasons. See, that’s what Herod does.

and

And it’s just such an insane day that we live in. A deacon in the church, he and his wife are pregnant with a child. They have healthy children, praise God, and pregnant, very excited and go to the doctor. The doctor says, “There’s a possibility of some sort of birth defect, maybe Down Syndrome, so when would you like to abort the child?†This was very recent. They said, “What, abort the child? We’re not gonna abort the child. They have Down Syndrome, they don’t have Down Syndrome, they bear the image and likeness of God. We love them. We’ll welcome them into our family.â€

Doctor says, “Oh, there’s something wrong with your baby.†Oh, there’s something more wrong with the doctor. The couple loves Jesus and says, “No, no. Children are a blessing, even those that have special needs. Sometimes they’re a special blessing.†The doctor say, “Well, I’m gonna go ahead and schedule the abortion anyways, and I’m gonna encourage you to murder your child.†Didn’t use that language but that’s what he meant. They said, “There’s no way.â€

Of course they didn’t abort their child but they got a bill for an abortion because the doctor was so certain that they would kill their child that he scheduled it, and when they didn’t show up for the abortion they did not want, to the meeting they did not plan, they got the bill for the procedure that they did not do. Right now they’re fighting the insurance company saying, “We will not pay for the abortion that we did not show up for because we didn’t schedule it because we don’t agree with it.†The doctor hands them a form and says, “I want you to sign away your right to sue me, saying if the baby is born with a defect, you can’t come after me because I warned you.â€

I don't believe the abortion story actually happened.

Why can't people like Driscoll understand the difference between a mass of cells that can't form a thought or feel pain and a full term infant?

marshill.com/media/gods-work-our-witness-2012/why-life-is-hard-for-jesus-and-his-people#transcript

[debrand]

Because he is Driscoll, he has to throw in something about wifely submission.

And I love that his obedience was immediate. Careful reading in the text says that he went at night. You know what that meant? He had a dream, an angel showed up. He wakes up middle of the night, “Mary, grab Jesus, we’re leaving.†And I love the fact that Mary goes with him, okay? Ladies, ladies, you see that? She goes with him. She doesn’t, you know, jump on Facebook, “My husband got a dream from an angel that we’re supposed to walk to Canada right now. So pray for the drug test. The police are on the way.†You know, I mean it doesn’t—right?

He walks so closely with the Lord that the Lord can speak to him as head of household, and when he explains it to his wife she says, “Well, I trust you and I trust the Lord. Let me get Jesus. We’ll walk now.†What are they walking away from? Well, every time they move, they’re leaving his job, they’re leaving their possessions, family, friends, comfort, security. They don’t have time to pack. They don’t have time to move. They don’t have time to make a plan. They don’t know where they’re gonna live in the next country. For those of you who are organized, this is faith, right? This is faith. But they obey.

I’m glad that they didn’t stay and argue because Jesus might have died. Sometimes when the Lord says, “Do this, don’t do that,†it’s because he loves us and he knows what’s going to happen, and he’s trying to get us to move quickly for our safety.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I dont think that story happened.

Yes, if a woman was pregnant and the doctor found that the fetus had a disability, the doctor would talk to them about abortion and whether they wanted to carry on with the pregnancy, but of course they wouldnt arrange it already before they agreed to it, and they would accept that some people would choose not to abort and feel they could cope with a child with special needs. I know America doesnt have the best healthcare and its rediculous about how much people pay for medical procedures, surely they wouldnt bill someone for a medical procedure that they havent had? Also any health issues with the fetus would have to be confirmed-surely if they suspected a fetus would have down syndrome, they would do some tests to confirm it, so they dont end up aborting a healthy fetus, or so the parents have time to prepare for bringing a child with special needs into this world.

I wish people would stop comparing the murder of actual living human beings-like the Sandy Hook shooting, the holocaust, Herod killing all of those babies in the Bible, deaths from child abuse...its not the same thing. Fetuses dont have feelings, most abortions happen when its just a ball of cells that doesnt even resemble a human, that doesnt even have a brain developed enough to feel pain or fear...unlike actual people.

[Austin]

I think I'm going to volunteer to drive women with no transportation to and from the abortion clinic.

[JesusFightClub]

*head in hands* Where to start. Driscoll redefines "being an absolute bell-end" for a new generation.

Firstly, not all "Britain" is rejoicing at the thought of royal baybee. I for one couldn't give a fuck. I also agree that if she did abort, whether naturally or induced for whatever reason, no-one would know...officially. While there would probably be rumours in the higher echelons, the man in the street wouldn't know.

If you pay taxes, you're as bad as Herod, cause you've funded a few fucking abortions, mate. What does the Bible say about abortion? The answer may surprise you, again.

I believe the doctor story as much as I believe my fanny grows wings as I sleep and flies off to Narnia. A doctor says "No, I DEMAND you abort your child for no apparent reason! BECAUSE I AM AN ADHERENT OF THE CULTURE OF DEATH". Yeah, that seems likely.

As for Mary "jumping on Facebook" bizarrely she didn't have that option, on account of this being thousands of years ago :doh: We don't know that she didn't whinge about it to her mates. And God had a direct line to her, more than he did to Joseph. I'm sure he didn't go through teh headship to speak to her, if you accept the Bible account.

[Visionoyahweh]

†The doctor say, “Well, I’m gonna go ahead and schedule the abortion anyways, and I’m gonna encourage you to murder your child.â€

Oh, bullshit.

[Sobeknofret]

How can anyone continue to take this tool seriously? I'm baffled.

[treemom]

Herod had children under the age two killed out fear of his political poisition.

That seems different than my abortion. Or really any abortion.

I really hate him,

[Frumpalicious]

Bull. Fuckin'. Shit.

Pardon my French.

I think he's having delusions. Someone, please call the men in white coats.

[Anxious Girl]

If abortion is murder, then how come the "unborn" aren't counted in the population census? What about every time a woman has a period, and a man has a boner? Do ovaries and sperm count as babies too? (What about eggs? Those eggs that we eat are unborn babies too, aren't they? What, they're not because God told Adam that he's better than the animals? So if God told you to go kill people who aren't part of your religion, you would do it because it's considered the Godly thing to do and you would get to Heaven faster than people God you view as unGodly heathens?) Then aren't both men and women are "murderers" at least 1 point in their life? You're a class A+ hypocritical ignorant, uneducated asshole.

[Wandering]

I think I'm going to volunteer to drive women with no transportation to and from the abortion clinic.

This. I think a donation to Planned Parenthood is also in order.

[BoomerLynn]

*head in hands* Where to start. Driscoll redefines "being an absolute bell-end" for a new generation.

Firstly, not all "Britain" is rejoicing at the thought of royal baybee. I for one couldn't give a fuck. I also agree that if she did abort, whether naturally or induced for whatever reason, no-one would know...officially. While there would probably be rumours in the higher echelons, the man in the street wouldn't know.

If you pay taxes, you're as bad as Herod, cause you've funded a few fucking abortions, mate. What does the Bible say about abortion? The answer may surprise you, again.

I believe the doctor story as much as I believe my fanny grows wings as I sleep and flies off to Narnia. A doctor says "No, I DEMAND you abort your child for no apparent reason! BECAUSE I AM AN ADHERENT OF THE CULTURE OF DEATH". Yeah, that seems likely.

As for Mary "jumping on Facebook" bizarrely she didn't have that option, on account of this being thousands of years ago :doh: We don't know that she didn't whinge about it to her mates. And God had a direct line to her, more than he did to Joseph. I'm sure he didn't go through teh headship to speak to her, if you accept the Bible account.

This made me lol :lol:

And yeah that doctor story is bullshit.

[Closed Womb]

For those of you that have had an abortion, or those of you men who have encouraged an abortion, or driven a woman to an abortion, or funded an abortion, or impregnated a woman with no intention of raising that child and thereby contributing to abortion, you’re a Herod, you’re a murderer. You’ve murdered a child. You’ve murdered a child.

Kind of OT, but I am in shock about his lack of compassion here. I have heard pastors address people who have had abortions from a place of "forgive yourself if you feel guilty", God washes sins, etc. I have never, ever heard a pastor call out "murderers" in the congregation. I mean, granted, people are "supposed" to be pro-life from the moment they accept Jesus (or whatever brand their brand Christianity requires for conversion), so I guess there is some kind of assumption that if you are at church you have changed your views on the matter.

What a fuckwad thing to do. There isn't a hell too torturous for this asshole.

[wild little fox]

Kind of OT, but I am in shock about his lack of compassion here. I have heard pastors address people who have had abortions from a place of "forgive yourself if you feel guilty", God washes sins, etc. I have never, ever heard a pastor call out "murderers" in the congregation. I mean, granted, people are "supposed" to be pro-life from the moment they accept Jesus (or whatever brand their brand Christianity requires for conversion), so I guess there is some kind of assumption that if you are at church you have changed your views on the matter.

What a fuckwad thing to do. There isn't a hell too torturous for this asshole.

I find most of what he says to be horrible, but there is absolutely no excuse for what he said and how he said it. So much for loving the members of his church ... Oh, that's right, they are to be perpetually wounded so that they keep coming back and keep giving at the collection plate.

[Coconut Flan]

Guilt. It's the stock and trade of jerks like him.

[formergothardite]

I've been hearing that same abortion story for years. It didn't happen.

[Stickers]

If I rode in the car with someone who was driving to get an abortion am I an accessory because I didn't stop it?

And yeah, they story about the doctor is total and utter fiction :roll: doctors wouldn't seriously being up an abortion after a screening, much less schedule one. They'd recommend further testing.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

This. I think a donation to Planned Parenthood is also in order.

:clap:

I also highly recommend looking up your local abortion fund to see if you can volunteer. It's a little more time-intensive than other volunteer gigs, but it's incredibly important work. I've done it before and plan to do it again in the future when my school workload lessens. http://www.fundabortionnow.org/

(And of course you can donate to them too!)

And to Mark Driscoll types: I'm exceedingly proud of every woman whom I've helped to get an abortion, despite my disappointment with a lack of government insurance to cover it. Call me a murderer all you want - it won't reduce my conviction that my actions are the REAL definition of pro-life.

[mystweaver]

And I just—I would say, pray for me. Man, I get into some serious media firefights and sit in the hot seat under the lights. And they’re like push, push, push, “Can you please edit, change?†No, no. God needs messengers, not editors.

If this doesn't qualify as delusions of grandeur, maybe it's time for us to go home. :roll:

[Minerva]

Well he can go fuck himself. Hard, and with a cactus as far as I'm concerned. Killing or enabling the killing of an organism that does not have the neurology required to experience anything does not make one a murderer. However, thinking that it makes one a murderer makes Mr. Driscoll pretty damn delusional.

Really, though, Mr. Driscoll, you should try the fucking yourself thing. It's cheaper than therapy, and if you're lucky you'll be able to locate and remove the stick while you're at it, and then we'll all be happier. The cactus is optional.

[kiwimusume]

Did he/she/it just admit that sometimes the reason a woman can't raise a child is because the man knocked her up and then abandoned her, and CONDEMN THOSE MEN rather than just saying the woman shouldn't have been having teh secks out of wedlock? I...I feel a bit faint. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing his/her/its poisonous bullshit, but I am GOBSMACKED that for once it's not only the woman who's being condemned.)

[Austin]

If I rode in the car with someone who was driving to get an abortion am I an accessory because I didn't stop it?

And yeah, they story about the doctor is total and utter fiction :roll: doctors wouldn't seriously being up an abortion after a screening, much less schedule one. They'd recommend further testing.

Absolutely. It's called "acting in concert", I think - lol. You may not have been the wheelman or wielding the suction tube, but you ARE A MURDERER! Did you really believe that line about just picking up a pizza?

[notablesquid]

Kind of OT, but I am in shock about his lack of compassion here. I have heard pastors address people who have had abortions from a place of "forgive yourself if you feel guilty", God washes sins, etc. I have never, ever heard a pastor call out "murderers" in the congregation. I mean, granted, people are "supposed" to be pro-life from the moment they accept Jesus (or whatever brand their brand Christianity requires for conversion), so I guess there is some kind of assumption that if you are at church you have changed your views on the matter.

What a fuckwad thing to do. There isn't a hell too torturous for this asshole.

I grew up in the 80's in a church that was deep in the 'shepherding' movement and I remember pastors from my youth who would call an 'aborted woman' a murderer who deserved jail. Misogynists like them would LOVE for all the women to get locked up, or at least the ones who won't be quiet and get them a sammich on demand.

I don't doubt for one second that True Believers like Driscoll and the tool that is Doug Phillips would implement many Levitical laws for all of us if given the chance.

[Olive Plant]

I don't doubt for one second that True Believers like Driscoll and the tool that is Doug Phillips would implement many Levitical laws for all of us if given the chance.

Including the one about how if you are pregnant through adultery the priest gives you bitter water to drink and causes you to miscarry, right? God isn't anti-abortion, yo. At least not the Old Testament, Bible-writing God. Not that it matters to anyone like Driscoll.

Sort of on topic, I always wanted to know as a kid where the Bible verses about abortion were. It seemed like a total cop-out that the best people could come up with was "before I formed you in the womb I knew you." DUH! You're God! You know everything! That's not an anti-abortion verse! Meanwhile, babies were being killed in their mother's wombs all the time in the Old Testament, in the middle of actual genocides practiced by the Israelites. Confusing for a little kid who is told that the Bible is the word of God and also that God loves all unborn babies.

[BravaAmica]

Kind of OT, but I am in shock about his lack of compassion here. I have heard pastors address people who have had abortions from a place of "forgive yourself if you feel guilty", God washes sins, etc. I have never, ever heard a pastor call out "murderers" in the congregation. I mean, granted, people are "supposed" to be pro-life from the moment they accept Jesus (or whatever brand their brand Christianity requires for conversion), so I guess there is some kind of assumption that if you are at church you have changed your views on the matter.

What a fuckwad thing to do. There isn't a hell too torturous for this asshole.

Well, spank my arse and call me a murderer. I've had an abortion. I don't regret it. It was the best solution for a shitty, terrifying situation. And if I had a dick, I'd tell Mark Driscoll to suck it.