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pregnant Catholics with health problems


Boltingmadonna

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I don't think I could ever convince my husband to have unprotected sex with me if he knew full well that a pregnancy would be life threatening.

this. She should be questioning how much her husband really cares for her.

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I remember reading a few years ago that the pope relented on the use of condoms in Africa, to prevent AIDS, but when I googled it, I found an interview where he seemed to backtrack. But he did say it was okay to use condoms in some circumstances: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/21 ... s-20101121

gay prostitutes can use condoms, but it is still sinful...just not as bad

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But the point of NFP is knowing that you are getting ready to ovulate, if you double ovulate it is obvious that something is "off" (i think when i did it was 3 days later....I never had an "all clear" sign between the 2 ovulations) and you continue to abstain (or in my hubbies and my case, do "other" stuff) until everything is all clear. Even if you ovulated, say, 2 weeks after the first there would still be signs that you are going to ovulate, so you abstain.

I'm not sure that I'm making myself clear...NFP is not for everyone, you have to be 100% diligent (I learned it doing the reverse, I was trying to get pregnant, so I learned all of the signs and how my body worked when I was trying for a baby....that is probably the best time to learn it IMO, there were no repercussions if I messed up one month) and I have no problems with other forms of BC (I'm on the pill now). However, NFP is a valid form of BC, and i would rather see fundie women using NFP than nothing at all.

Doing "Other stuff" is forbidden in a Catholic context. For Catholics (at least as I was taught through all my years of Catholic school) anything that involves non-P-V ejaculation is unacceptable.

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That's the thing. Everyone should be able to choose which method is best for them. For me it is using a barrier method along with NFP/FAM. I would NEVER say someone should do as I do.

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this. She should be questioning how much her husband really cares for her.

I totally agree. She should not be in this position to begin with. Christian men are told by Paul that they are supposed to love their wives like Christ loves the Church. This means that he sacrifices himself for her. It doesn't mean he puts her life on the line so that he can get off.

I'm just repeating what Paul says in the Bible, since they seem to turn to Paul for their reasoning to keep women in their place.

This husband is an abusive asshole. I have nothing but contempt for him. For crying out loud! Sneak out and get snipped!

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One would think using bc to prevent blood clots in the lungs should be enough.

And •Interestingly, I have been feeling rock-solid mentally and spiritually this week. In fact, I can’t remember a time I felt more peaceful or closer to God than I do now. I am positive that that is due to your prayers. I'm evil, but I think it may be lack of oxygen to the brain.

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I just had a thought: when I had my hysterectomy, I kept my ovaries. And I'll bet I had at least a few cycles before menopause arrived. So, does that mean that a potentially fertilized egg could have been washed away with nowhere to go? Does that mean that if a Catholic ever gets a hysterectomy, they have to remove the ovaries too, lest an egg fail to implant, thus--abortion?? This is the kind of thing the anxious folks on Catholic Answers could debate for hours if not weeks.

It might depend on the type of hysterectomy, but I'm pretty sure they always seal off the spot where the cervix was so that semen can't wander into your abdominal cavity. Otherwise there might be a teeny tiny chance that an egg could get fertilized, but that could lead to an abdominal pregnancy, which is why I doubt the doctors would leave your cervix open.

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That's how my step-sister got pregnant! Granted, this all happened over 20 years ago. My niece was a nice surprise. They had to go in and build a uterus around her. LOL!

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RE: what is natural or unnatural about NFP--I was able to space my babies by breastfeeding and cosleeping for the first 11 years of marriage. There's a book by Sheila Kippley titled "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing." It explains how, for at least some people, eco-breastfeeding suppresses ovulation for many months. I usually got a period back about 18 months after delivery. The soonest I got pregnant was 23 months post-delivery, making my closest two 32 months apart. Used in conjunction with fertility awareness, eco-breastfeeding lets a couple be pretty natural, imo. The only down side was that b'feeding tended to cut my libido, for at least the first year,probably directly related to hormones. Can't have everything, I guess. :) I had go get serious about NFP after my 3rd round of cardiac issues related to pregnancy. Like many posters have pointed out, being responsible for little ones and facing medical issues with another pregnancy should make one opt for being healthy for the children one has. I didn't have the courage to "go there" again.

Just wanted to comment about the "didn't have the courage" issue. How is it courageous, exactly, to get pregnant knowing your health is at serious risk? When a woman with a pretty much guaranteed potentially-fatal pregnancy complication gets pregnant, the people who would pay the price for her "courage" are her partner, children, parents and siblings. Of course, if she wins the roulette she will be touted as "amazing", "inspirational" and the such. It's a bit different than a fireman running into a burning building to save someone trapped in there - because if he doesn't, a life would actually be lost. All this is said as a very diligent BC user who is not keen on experiencing HELLP syndrome and possible stroke and kidney failure again. Does that make me not courageous?

I happened to read an article about a woman who insisted on getting pregnant despite having pulmonary hypertension. She won the lottery, or she wouldn't have an article written about her. Again, if she failed, she would have left behind a grieving family and no medals for bravery. (Needless to say, the entire pregnancy issue is a huge sore spot for me so I apologize if I came across as snooty. It took me ages to come to terms with the fact that I really do suck at being pregnant and should not attempt this again).

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Just to clarify--I ended up using NFP for personal, not religious, reasons. I could not take the pill as it caused toxic hypertension (220/120) by week three. I also developed optic neuritis and lost some vision in one eye. The IUD was out because, with a leaking heart valve, it was considered a conduit for infection. I'm allergic to latex and also to spermicidal foams, etc. A non-latex diaphragm was an option, but without the spermicidal stuff. Believe me, when my firstborn was a year old, my gyn offered NFP--and I leaped at it.

I chose not to sterilize for religious/emotional/personal reasons, though. And NFP was working so well that I felt safe with it. Had it not worked well, I probably would have opted for sterilization after my third live birth.

I'm menopausal now, but I still cannot take HRT. I'm a DES daughter and that, coupled with the hypertension and reaction to BCP hormones, means I'm a no-go. So, I'm "naturally" turning into an aging hag. Ah, well, as friend once told me--before 40, I worried what it looked like. After 40, I only worry whether it works right!!!!

Thank you for sharing - does that mean that someone who did not take well to BCP (ahem - the same person whose body went berserk while pregnant) should probably consider natural aging and not supplement with HRT? It will be interesting to see if there has been any research on this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Meanwhile, over at Conversion Diary since this thread originally went up, Jennifer Fulwiler seems to have been discharged from the hospital back to her home. She's been put on an anticoagulant dose that is more than $4000 per month with their health insurance.*

Aaand one of her bloggy friends begged for money on the internet to help them pay for it. I hope that none of the people who are sending in money are skimping on their own children so Ms. Fulwiler can avoid death due to a known preexisting condition that was entirely preventable. :( I don't think that any medication for anyone should morally come with that kind of price tag, but since she lives in the U.S. and knew she was predisposed to blood clots and didn't take firmer measures to prevent pregnancy - well, she wouldn't be zooming to the top of my charitable donation list any time soon even if I were inclined to her belief system.

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  • 3 weeks later...

She mentioned in another recent blog entry that after the baby was born there would be "tricky long-term health management issues" to address with her doctors. I really, really hope that means her doctors will put their foot down about long-term birth control.

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That's how my step-sister got pregnant! Granted, this all happened over 20 years ago. My niece was a nice surprise. They had to go in and build a uterus around her. LOL!

20 years ago the doctors had the ability to build a womb out of nothing to help a woman with no womb carry a child to term? :think:

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20 years ago the doctors had the ability to build a womb out of nothing to help a woman with no womb carry a child to term? :think:

And where was the zygote implanted prior to building a womb? How did they unimplant it and reimplant it 20 years ago if we don't have the technology to do that now?

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I'm seeing Build-a-Bear ads at the top of the page, so naturally I am now wondering what "Build-A-Womb" stores would look like. :shifty:

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  • 1 month later...

conversiondiary.com/2013/03/to-the-ladies-who-sent-me-that-quilt.html

New post on her blog, outlining her average day. There are quite a few snarkworthy things in there, but this is what really jumped out at me:

2:45 – 3:45 PM: See OB (the high-risk specialist I’ve been seeing for years, not Dr. K whom you met in Minor Revisions). Visit is nice, though the contraception / NFP issue is becoming an increasing source of tension as this epic pregnancy nears the end. We’ve been dancing around the details, but I have the sneaking suspicion that at least one of my doctors’ heads may explode when the cards are all on the table. Once again, I boldly defend my principles by…making a few vague statements and asking if we can talk about it at the next appointment. Leave office feeling stressed.

So, it sounds like after multiple pulmonary embolisms and a lengthy hospitalization to treat them, and the knowledge that future pregnancies will involve a serious and expensive medication regimen that by her own admission she is not able to fully comply with, she is STILL not going to use birth control after this baby is born. I am both absolutely gobsmacked and not at all surprised.

edit: I fail at breaking links, sorry

As foolish as I find her choices, I desperately hope she pulls through this all okay. The thought of all those children being without their mother breaks my heart.

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I am a fellow practising Catholic and mom of a big family who shares this woman's views on contraception. But I do not share her willingness to get pregnant again, no matter how carefully she plans on using NFP. I think she is being irresponsible and confusing it with being faithful.

There is only one solution for women with her and my belief system... complete and total abstinence. I wouldn't expect that she would ever agree to contraception and more power to her. But that doesn't mean that she needs to take even the slightest risk of getting pregnant again.

Abstinence is hard but entirely doable. It's no more stressful than worrying if it's truly a "safe" time, if the pill/condom/iud will fail or going through a potentially deadly pregnancy.

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conversiondiary.com/2013/03/to-the-ladies-who-sent-me-that-quilt.html

New post on her blog, outlining her average day. There are quite a few snarkworthy things in there, but this is what really jumped out at me:

So, it sounds like after multiple pulmonary embolisms and a lengthy hospitalization to treat them, and the knowledge that future pregnancies will involve a serious and expensive medication regimen that by her own admission she is not able to fully comply with, she is STILL not going to use birth control after this baby is born. I am both absolutely gobsmacked and not at all surprised.

edit: I fail at breaking links, sorry

As foolish as I find her choices, I desperately hope she pulls through this all okay. The thought of all those children being without their mother breaks my heart.

Am I the only one who worries about how light-heartedly she seems to express her decision to risk getting pregnant again? I get that people often filter the emotions they express on their blogs, and I get that she expresses feeling stressed out by the doctors' expectations, but I would be writing very differently if I fully understood that I was likely to die in the next few years and leave a huge family behind.

I know someone has probably already said this, but what the hell is wrong with her husband? If one misplaced ejaculation could kill me, Mr. Minerva would never be able to get it up.

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Am I the only one who worries about how light-heartedly she seems to express her decision to risk getting pregnant again? I get that people often filter the emotions they express on their blogs, and I get that she expresses feeling stressed out by the doctors' expectations, but I would be writing very differently if I fully understood that I was likely to die in the next few years and leave a huge family behind.

I know someone has probably already said this, but what the hell is wrong with her husband? If one misplaced ejaculation could kill me, Mr. Minerva would never be able to get it up.

I know, right? Someone who values his own right to Sanctified Boners over his wife's well-being has messed-up priorities. That they are messed up in accordance with church doctrine does not make him any less of a heartless fool.

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Am I the only one who worries about how light-heartedly she seems to express her decision to risk getting pregnant again? I get that people often filter the emotions they express on their blogs, and I get that she expresses feeling stressed out by the doctors' expectations, but I would be writing very differently if I fully understood that I was likely to die in the next few years and leave a huge family behind.

I know someone has probably already said this, but what the hell is wrong with her husband? If one misplaced ejaculation could kill me, Mr. Minerva would never be able to get it up.

I totally agree. The other thing that shocked me about her "day in the life" entry was how incredibly flippant she seemed about finding time to do her Lovenox shots - like, "oh, if I'm late or if I miss a dose of this LIFE AND PREGNANCY PRESERVING DRUG it's no big thing." (which is also part of what landed her in the hospital in the first place) If it were me, nothing in my day would be a higher priority than making sure I got my doses, and my family would just have to help me to work around that. (I have a feeling my husband would insist on nothing less...)

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To add to the NFP discussion...we've used it for both 'trying for kids' and 'trying to avoid (but it would be OK if we got PG)' and one of the things I became hyper aware of is that if you're 'trying to avoid', it SUCKS.

I'm sure it doesn't for all people but my sex drive is incredibly tied to my ovulation/hormones. If I have to avoid sex on the days when I"m fertile, basically the window fo time when I most want sex, it's always forbidden.

Hated.

Yeah, me, too. I don't need to chart temperature or look at mucus. I know I'm ovulating when I wake up horny and spend the next three days fantasizing about pretty much every man I see. The rest of the month, blah, I'm tired and in pain, go away.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bump because someone just linked me Jennifer's article about "talking to her gay friends about gay marriage" and my head exploded.

From the article:

I told him about all the priests and nuns and monks who are some of the most joyful people I’ve ever met, pointing out that for thousands of years there have been large segments of society that live awesome lives without sex. I described some of the chaste single people I know who do more good for the world in a day than I do in a year. “Our society has forgotten entirely that it is perfectly possible not to have sex. Not only possible, but can even be a great thing.â€

I see. So abstinence is perfectly possible and a good thing. Well, we already know you can take a vow of abstinence while still married, Margaret Beaufort did.

But...

Since it’s an abstinence-based method, there’s sacrifice involved with avoiding pregnancy. Every month couples are highly motivated to ask themselves, “Is it really that important that we not have another kid right now?â€

YES. YES IT IS. BY DEFINITION. You keep getting pregnant at huge risk to your own life, despite having (nearly six) living children, and then need medication you both cannot afford and cannot be bothered to take as prescribed.

I want to trust God and the Church and shun contraception, but there are a few different ways I could do that:

1. Take the Coumadin and have an intimacy-free marriage, practicing abstinence indefinitely (I don’t think this is really a serious option).

Whyever not? It's so joyful, great, and awesome, isn't it? That's what you told your gay "friends".

Also she's on a teratogenic blood thinner when she breastfeeds (Warfarin), but won't stop having sex, because:

2. Take the Coumadin and trust that God will take care of any unexpected children that may come along and that the drug wouldn’t harm them.

She won't bottle feed because who fucking knows. The icing on this shit cake is that she took a bunch of donations from strangers for medication for a completely preventable condition she only gets by being a selfish hypocrite... but her husband is still buying expensive wine. What did Joe "give up for Lent"?

I thought Joe’s idea was particularly good. It would be no big deal to those of us who usually choose our wines based on the picture on the box and could barely tell the difference between a 1950 Bordeaux and a grape wine cooler, but it’s a surprisingly significant penance for oenophiles. Evidently, for people who are into wine, sipping your favorite cab out of a worn, dishwasher-battered plastic Dora the Explorer cup is just not the same as having it from a smooth, wide-mouthed Riedel glass.

Oh fuck you.

I hate her so much.

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Plenty of crazy going on at Conversion Diaries today...Ms. Fulwiler was supposed to have a mesh screen inserted today to filter possible blood clots because she has to go off blood thinners before she's induced on Mon. According to her Twitter feed, they weren't able to place it (no reason given as of now). Of course, she has to post a picture on Instagram of the bandage on her neck so we can all see how she suffers so...This woman is a narcissist of the first order!!

So she's about to have baby #6 after an ill advised pregnancy (that could have killed her...and still could). And she won't use birth control or do anything permanent to ensure she never gets pregnant again. She can't afford the drug she needed during this pregnancy and depended on donations to pay for it. Even at that she was often not compliant with dosing. WTF?? I am a Catholic who knows all the "rules" and the reasons behind them. I have a graduate degree in Theology. Does she really believe that she would be going against God, her faith, or whatever the hell she's thinking of if she were to make sure she never got pregnant again???? What sort of monster God does she believe in?? She is so narcissistic I could almost believe she would willingly martyr herself for a pregnancy, and that's just wrong. She has children she's responsible for that need their mother. She's an idiot, but I hope nothing happens to her for the sake of those kids.

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I had a life-threatening complication with baby #3. I felt devastated when my ob-gyn recommended I have a tubal ligation after the baby was born.

What I remember most was her saying, "It's more important for you to be here for the three children you have, then to risk your life trying to have another one."

I'm glad I'm not Catholic. My church was supportive and my female pastor came to the hospital to pray with me. There was no guilt, just sadness about not really having a choice in the matter.

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