pregnant Catholics with health problems

[Boltingmadonna]

Okay, this isn't exactly snark, because I wish all the best to any woman who is pregnant and has a potentially life-threatening health problem. However. Jen Fulwiler, a Catholic convert and blogger at conversiondiary.com, already has five children under eight years old. She has been married for nine years. So, that's producing babies at a pretty good clip. In the last couple of days, she has been hospitalized because she has blood clots in both lungs. She is "homozygous for a Factor II clotting disorder." She first had a clotting problem with her second pregnancy. She rolled the dice three more times, and now, with five little kids already depending on her, she's pregnant again, and this time she's in the hospital. I sincerely hope she'll be okay and give birth to a healthy baby.

But jeez . . . I really don't get it. I don't understand how a mother of five can say to herself, "It's okay to risk my life again and take a chance on leaving the five I already have motherless." And I don't get how the father can tell her "Go you, let's have another baby no matter what the risk." (Or, worse yet, "I play by Catholic rules and I want to have sex, so you're just going to have to chance another high-risk pregnancy.")

My nephew's wife has a clotting disorder, and has had two children--carefully monitored all the way. Ms. Fulwiler mentions casually that she missed a couple of doses of her medication, but gee, nothing ever happened before. I'm pretty sure my niece-in-law never missed one single dose. She's careful that way. Also, I'm pretty sure she doesn't plan to have six or eight more kids.

Help me out here--I respect a woman's right to choose, but it seems like, with so many other lives at stake, this is wrong. Am I wrong? Is Factor II clotting disorder really not dangerous enough to worry about? Have I missed something, or is this more callous disregard for a woman's life and health?

[desertvixen]

I don't understand it either, but then again this person is friendly with Abigail (Our Lady of Insufficient Budgeting).

[Lillybee]

Quite frankly, many Catholic priests in the privacy of the confessional would tell women with conditions like that to use birth control.

[meda]

It's dangerous enough to cause bleeding in the brain. This woman is a selfish fool. Her husband is worse. They really do live up to the "converts are more Catholic than the Pope" thing. Does this one think Jesus is her boyfriend like St Abigail?

[YPestis]

I thought the Catholic church agrees it's ok to use birth control for medical reasons? Seems risky pregnancies are a good reason to stop getting pregnant. Some people either really love kids or think the more kids they have, the better Christians they are.....

[samithemage]

Nope, no chemical or barrier birth control is ever allowed, at least as far as I'm aware. NFP is the only thing Catholics are "allowed" to use.

[valsa]

I thought the Catholic church agrees it's ok to use birth control for medical reasons? Seems risky pregnancies are a good reason to stop getting pregnant. Some people either really love kids or think the more kids they have, the better Christians they are.....

I'd amend that to:

Some people either really love having kids or think the more kids they have, the better Christians they are

If these people loved actual kids, they wouldn't want to leave 5 of them motherless.

[Beeks]

Nope, no chemical or barrier birth control is ever allowed, at least as far as I'm aware. NFP is the only thing Catholics are "allowed" to use.

I have an aunt who is a catholic concert, super hardcore, so I asked her. She said no bc is allowed for the purpose of bc, but it is ok to take bc pills for medical reasons like ovarian cysts, etc. so I guess in the case of a clotting disorder it wouldn't fly...but it would be pretty easy to come up with a reason to take bc if you wanted to. It's even used to treat acne.

[tropaka]

no birth control is officially allowed, but I've known Priests and Catholic social workers to recommend bc on the dl.

[mockingbird]

Maybe your doctor thinks you shouldn't get pregnant again, so he/she recommends you use some type of protection. That's a good enough medical reason for me...

I mean, it's not like the priest is going to ask you in confession whether you are taking BC. Who is going to find out besides you/your husband if you don't share?

According to Catholic Answers, BC should be the absolute *last resort* of medical treatment and that even though it's approved to treat things like acne, cysts, endometriosis, heavy periods, etc. there are ALWAYS plenty of other, non-ebil treatments available. Who knew.

ETA: hahaha, I wasn't able to find that response, but I did find this gem. Birth Control=The Drug That Shall Not Be Named.

In that case, it should not even be referred to as the birth control pill but rather as drug X, basically whatever substance is needed for actual, medical reasons, in which case yes, it can be moral to take that substance. It is, however, wrong to say that in such cases "birth control" is permitted. What is permitted is, correctly, the same substance which is used for birth control but in that case, it is used for a different purpose, and birth control is not an intended purpose.

Also:

I just wish I understood why it was ok to flush babies down the toilet to treat a non life threatening condition that can probably be treated another way.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=630036

I love to hate them.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I'd amend that to:

If these people loved actual kids, they wouldn't want to leave 5 of them motherless.

^^^ THIS.

[Minerva]

Maybe your doctor thinks you shouldn't get pregnant again, so he/she recommends you use some type of protection. That's a good enough medical reason for me...

I mean, it's not like the priest is going to ask you in confession whether you are taking BC. Who is going to find out besides you/your husband if you don't share?

According to Catholic Answers, BC should be the absolute *last resort* of medical treatment and that even though it's approved to treat things like acne, cysts, endometriosis, heavy periods, etc. there are ALWAYS plenty of other, non-ebil treatments available. Who knew.

ETA: hahaha, I wasn't able to find that response, but I did find this gem. Birth Control=The Drug That Shall Not Be Named.

Also:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=630036

I love to hate them.

'Cause it only halts your ovulation if you call it birth control. Hey, last time I was at the dentist, I referred to my birth control by its brand name. D'you think that made it less effective?

[singsingsing]

I feel really bad for her. I don't agree with Jen Fulwiler on a lot of things, but she's not loopy like Abigail. Generally she's a smart, funny, down-to-earth woman, and I know she loves her children. Unfortunately like so many others (especially so many other Catholic converts) she believes that the commands of the Catholic church are essentially the commands of God. If this doesn't serve as a wake up call to her and others who believe birth control is always evil, I don't know what will. I was also shocked that she so flippantly mentioned missing doses of her medication. I understand making mistakes, but she makes it sound like it was happening on a fairly regular basis and not really a big deal. When you have a potentially fatal blood clotting disorder and 5 young children depending on you, you just don't do that.

I've heard all the Catholic arguments for this position, and they still make no sense to me. God is really going to command you to either abstain from sex altogether, practice NFP perfectly, or risk your life again and again because . . . why? It's not like we're talking about abortion, which Catholics believe = killing a baby. It's not like Catholics are Mormons who believe that there are souls waiting in some other realm for a body on earth, and they have to do their part to get them here. By this logic, I should be spending all my time and energy finding a husband ASAP so I can start reproducing as many babies as possible. Again, for what reason? I get the philosophy of being open to life. If that's part of your religious belief system, great. But is it so difficult to grasp that one can be open to life while still using birth control for very good reasons such as potentially fatal health concerns? NFP is basically another form of birth control, just a difficult and unpleasant one (in my opinion).

I wish the best for Jen. Like I said, she's a bright woman. She's also a person who really likes order and lists and systems, and I think that's what sucked her into hardcore Catholicism. Maybe this will show her that these things aren't just black and white. Whatever the case, I hope she gets better and has a healthy baby. :(

[RachelB]

Quite frankly, many Catholic priests in the privacy of the confessional would tell women with conditions like that to use birth control.

The Partner's grandmother was told that in the early 1960s, after her eighth pregnancy nearly killed her. And when the priest said it, she listened.

[Turtle]

Nope, no chemical or barrier birth control is ever allowed, at least as far as I'm aware. NFP is the only thing Catholics are "allowed" to use.

Catholics can use birth control to treat medical conditions, as long as contraception isn't the primary intention.

I think most priests would, at the very least, recommend that this woman use NFP to avoid pregnancy.

I personally can't understand her mentality. I love my kids and I'd do anything to ensure that I'm alive to take care of them. And honestly (this might be weird to say) but I don't think I could ever convince my husband to have unprotected sex with me if he knew full well that a pregnancy would be life threatening.

[desertvixen]

And honestly (this might be weird to say) but I don't think I could ever convince my husband to have unprotected sex with me if he knew full well that a pregnancy would be life threatening.

This.

[Jana814]

I just don't understand why this woman would put her life in danger to have another child. Most people who say "I have 5 kids and my life is more important then indangering my life to have more"

[pixydust]

This.

Me either! My husband would be all about "everything but", but not actual intercourse.

[StacyW]

I remember reading a few years ago that the pope relented on the use of condoms in Africa, to prevent AIDS, but when I googled it, I found an interview where he seemed to backtrack. But he did say it was okay to use condoms in some circumstances: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/21 ... s-20101121

[fundifugee]

Of course hormonal contraception would be contraindicated for the same reason that pregnancy is for this woman.

The husband should go get snipped unless he's keen on single parenting all those kids.

[crazyforkate]

A family friend died of a similar condition (blood clots in the lungs during pregnancy - with twins, to boot). They had no idea this would happen until it did, otherwise I am very certain she wouldn't have conceived again. She left two lovely little girls behind. This woman is absolutely playing with fire.

[sewingmom2]

The birth control pill is known for causing blood clots, so it wouldn't be an option. Used correctly, with conservative protocols, NFP has only a 1% failure rate, making it as reliable as the BCP in preventing pregnancy. There are lots of NFP methods, with the Creighton method being probably the most accurate. I personally used Billings. I nursed my children for around 4 years each, and Billings provided me a method of accurately judging fertility when my temps were wonky from nursing all night long. CCLI has good information on the sympto-thermal method, which cross checks temps/cervix/mucous.

Because of my history of cardiomyopathy and CHF related to pregnancy, I had to follow the most conservative rules. My husband and I managed to be intimate at least 7 or 8 times a month. It wasn't ideal, but it was manageable, though we both would have preferred "more!" :) I never had an unplanned pregnancy in 24 years of marriage (he died of an undiagnosed PE at age 51, post-surgery).

Just sharing info on NFP...

[France Nolan]

I live in an area that is predominantly Roman Catholic, however most people are 'cafeteria Catholics' and use birth control with no qualms.

I'm a social worker, and while I've never worked for a Catholic agency, I have friends who have and there was a don't ask, don't tell policy about birth control. The priests, sisters, and administrators would quietly look the other way if the social worker recommended that a client use birth control or any other family planning services.

[ADoyle90815]

Most Catholics I've known are the cafeteria types as plenty of them have used birth control, and often for other health reasons. In this case, I don't think this woman would be able to use pills since they have been known to cause blood clots, and she already has them.

[mockingbird]

Factor II is a deficiency in a clotting factor, so she has problems with being able to clot not too much clotting. I'm not sure that hormonal BC would be contraindicated for that condition as the drug and disease have opposite effects. It *would* be for someone with a thrombophilia which means your blood is prone to clotting, because it just adds to the risk.

In any case, there are obviously other methods of birth control!