Rape, Football, and Social Media

[happy atheist]

The idea of premeditated rape is repellent, but so is the idea of, what? Opportunistic rape? Is that what you would call it, doggie? Either you're the kind of person who will rape someone or you're not. This isn't something they accidentally did. They chose to sexually assault an unconscious girl. That's on them. Their victim will have to live with the consequences of their actions for the rest of her life. I don't have any problem at all if they do too.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Now the victim is getting death threats:

http://bustedbitchesandinternetstalkers ... ial-media/

This whole thing is sick. One of the rapists moms made a post on fb about what a whore she is (during the trial not after the verdict). The girl being drunk is irrelevant. What matters is you do not happen upon an unconscious person and then use her as your plaything.

The prosecutor is going after the witnesses now. The ones who stood around and live tweeted about it. Ugh I'm so disgusted.

[doggie]

The idea of premeditated rape is repellent, but so is the idea of, what? Opportunistic rape? Is that what you would call it, doggie? Either you're the kind of person who will rape someone or you're not. This isn't something they accidentally did. They chose to sexually assault an unconscious girl. That's on them. Their victim will have to live with the consequences of their actions for the rest of her life. I don't have any problem at all if they do too.

it's not the same thing I don't think. Well it would depend on the situation. in this case when alcohol is involved judgment is screwed up. that's not the same thing as stalking and planning something out. the law sees a big difference between someone that plans on killing someone then does it then someone that say committed a robbery and someone was killed in the process. I think there is a large difference in the morals between the two.

I am not saying any rape should be forgiven. but there is a difference between the two and the punishment needs to be right for both.

No they should never be able to forget what they did the same as we all should have to live with the bad things we do to others. so the question would be would they have done it if it was not for the alcohol? Would they do it again if they did not get caught? That's the difference I think between the two.

I am not saying the person should not be punished and not suffer the rest of their lives for it. but how they are punished should be different. I am not condoning rape in any form no matter what.

I would say in this case if they got away with it they may have done it again. they did not seem to feel any guilt till they were judged guilty. Though in this case I doubt they would ever do it again unlike a serial rapist.

[doggie]

Now the victim is getting death threats:

http://bustedbitchesandinternetstalkers ... ial-media/

This whole thing is sick. One of the rapists moms made a post on fb about what a whore she is (during the trial not after the verdict). The girl being drunk is irrelevant. What matters is you do not happen upon an unconscious person and then use her as your plaything.

The prosecutor is going after the witnesses now. The ones who stood around and live tweeted about it. Ugh I'm so disgusted.

that is so common the stupid death threats that happen with anything like this. it is getting pretty pathetic. The mother should be punished since the girls name was left out of it all.

[Librul]

Don't know where the "in jail until 21" is coming from. The one Ohio paper today said one gets 1 year, the other gets 2 in Juvie. Nothing at all about the "mom" prosecutor and the obstruction of justice. She should face criminal charges herself. The whole situation makes me sick. The town is sick. The parents are sick. Every child involved in that horror, whether as a rapist, druggist, bystander or social media user is sick.

[debrand]

Now the victim is getting death threats:

http://bustedbitchesandinternetstalkers ... ial-media/

This whole thing is sick. One of the rapists moms made a post on fb about what a whore she is (during the trial not after the verdict). The girl being drunk is irrelevant. What matters is you do not happen upon an unconscious person and then use her as your plaything.

The prosecutor is going after the witnesses now. The ones who stood around and live tweeted about it. Ugh I'm so disgusted.

That is sick. Instead of blaming her son for ruining his own life and hurting another human being, she blames the victim

[happy atheist]

it's not the same thing I don't think. Well it would depend on the situation. in this case when alcohol is involved judgment is screwed up. that's not the same thing as stalking and planning something out. the law sees a big difference between someone that plans on killing someone then does it then someone that say committed a robbery and someone was killed in the process. I think there is a large difference in the morals between the two.

I am not saying any rape should be forgiven. but there is a difference between the two and the punishment needs to be right for both.

No they should never be able to forget what they did the same as we all should have to live with the bad things we do to others. so the question would be would they have done it if it was not for the alcohol? Would they do it again if they did not get caught? That's the difference I think between the two.

I am not saying the person should not be punished and not suffer the rest of their lives for it. but how they are punished should be different. I am not condoning rape in any form no matter what.

I would say in this case if they got away with it they may have done it again. they did not seem to feel any guilt till they were judged guilty. Though in this case I doubt they would ever do it again unlike a serial rapist.

I'm sure alcohol played a part in their actions, but I don't believe that alcohol makes people into rapists. It might lower their inhibitions, but if that inclination wasn't there in the first place they would not have raped her. Plus they are underage and they were drunk, therefor they chose to break the law. Any outcomes resulting from that choice are on them.

As to the bolded, they don't feel guilty even now. The one asshole said it was wrong to post the pictures on the internet. That is his takeaway from this. Not that it was wrong to rape someone, just that he shouldn't post evidence of his actions all over the internet.

I would not be surprised in the least if they did this again. They don't think they did anything really wrong. I see a long future of date rapes ahead of them if they don't get intensive counseling. They may be unlikely to start wearing masks and hiding in bushes to ambush women, but they have been raised to think that because they are good at football they can do anything they want.

[slh12280]

I first saw this story on CNN. When I watching I was so horrified I couldn't look away. The amount of rape apology was such a shock to my system. This society needs a lot of help. After that I definitely had one of those moments where I felt more feminist. Rape culture :angry-cussingwhite: Poor girl. I just can't...

[doggie]

I agree it is not really guilt when it only happens after you are found guilty. People are noticing that CNN and the way they treated the boys. But will they do it again? not sure but they did not have sex with her they only put their fingers in her.

[happy atheist]

I agree it is not really guilt when it only happens after you are found guilty. People are noticing that CNN and the way they treated the boys. But will they do it again? not sure but they did not have sex with her they only put their fingers in her.

Well, the next time a couple of dudes "only" put their fingers inside you without your permission, you let me know how you feel.

[merrily]

I wished they'd taught what rapist behavior/apologist behavior is to both boys and girls. These boys are claiming they 'didn't' know it was rape. Jebus. Instead of skivving around abstinance/abortion is evil/ect. why not fundies teach what godly men should act around chaste women? (/snark)

I don't understand HOW they think that they're totally NOT being rapists.

[Buzzard]

Don't know where the "in jail until 21" is coming from. The one Ohio paper today said one gets 1 year, the other gets 2 in Juvie. Nothing at all about the "mom" prosecutor and the obstruction of justice. She should face criminal charges herself. The whole situation makes me sick. The town is sick. The parents are sick. Every child involved in that horror, whether as a rapist, druggist, bystander or social media user is sick.

Yeah, thats my understanding as well. They were sentenced to "juvenile supervision" until they're 21 but that doesnt necessarily mean they'll be in custody.

[doggie]

Well, the next time a couple of dudes "only" put their fingers inside you without your permission, you let me know how you feel.

I am saying I doubt they will repeat it as it did not get them off. they did it for the lark of it not because they wanted an orgasm. I am not condoning what they did was ok I am saying that I doubt they will repeat it as it was more of a thrill then a sexual satisfaction thing.

[Dark Matters]

I am saying I doubt they will repeat it as it did not get them off. they did it for the lark of it not because they wanted an orgasm. I am not condoning what they did was ok I am saying that I doubt they will repeat it as it was more of a thrill then a sexual satisfaction thing.

Rape has nothing to do with sex. Rape is a power thing - power over someone who can't fight back either physically or emotionally. They got off on using a girl who couldn't give consent. It was rape whether a penis was involved or a finger.

[BoomerLynn]

Rape has nothing to do with sex. Rape is a power thing - power over someone who can't fight back either physically or emotionally. They got off on using a girl who couldn't give consent. It was rape whether a penis was involved or a finger.

So much this. It doesn't matter what they "put in her" it only matters that they violated her, without her consent. They took an unconscious girl, and treated her as if she was their plaything. They did not see her as a human being, they saw her as a toy. She will have to live the rest of her life dealing with what happened to her (and thanks to the disgusting rape culture in this country, she will likely be stigmatized ). These boys deserve to be stigmatized for life as well.

[AnywhereButHere]

I am saying I doubt they will repeat it as it did not get them off. they did it for the lark of it not because they wanted an orgasm. I am not condoning what they did was ok I am saying that I doubt they will repeat it as it was more of a thrill then a sexual satisfaction thing.

They may not have "gotten off" in an orgasm/sexual way (and maybe they did) but they did "get off" in a power trip way. Either way, it's rape, and the perpetrators got a charge out of it, so I do think they may try it again and next time worse to up the thrill.

Hopefully, they do get help and the realization they did something wrong and feel genuine remorse someday. Given that they seemed only to be sorry for getting caught I'm not holding out hope.

[AnywhereButHere]

I don't think it's extreme because DS loves the sport and it's a positive team culture. I've told some RL friends about his team and training schedule (including that the entire team practices together, so there are 5YO kids training with adults, all doing the same workouts [the kids don't use weights, though]) and they were appalled. "Oh, its too hard for such a young kid." Um, if not now, when? Another thing I like about speed skating is that it does not coddle the athletes with bullshit awards you don't earn. And yes, I ruffled some feathers when I told some friends, "If I want my kid to get an award for just showing up, he'd still be in soccer. Any medals he's won he has earned and he knows that."

I remember the one soccer team DS was on, everyone got a trophy and they didn't keep score. These were 5YOs, not 3YOs. So, yeah, no more soccer.

Just wanted to comment on this...

My son plays soccer, and yes, the participation trophy thing went on for far too long. They now only get trophys/medals for winning, but it took them all a long time to get over the feeling they were owed for just showing up. It's detrimental in sports and life to have that sense of entitlement. Your son's coach seems to be doing it right.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Meanwhile, someone just told me that if the girl's parents were Christians, why didn't they supervise their daughter and make sure she wasn't at parties getting drunk?

(...because clearly, only Christian parents care about supervising their kids, and, because dontcha know, if you don't want to get raped, don't go to parties!)

....fuck.

[greek_chorus]

Ew I didn't know that about one of the mother's posting stuff on fb. This is a teenage girl, not a whore as she put it, but it leaves me wondering... When did it become okay to rape whores?

They.really.do.not.get.it.at.all.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Dave Zirin, sportswriter, has a really good piece about this case and the connection between rape culture and jock culture in "The Nation."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/173387/ve ... e-culture#

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Ew I didn't know that about one of the mother's posting stuff on fb. This is a teenage girl, not a whore as she put it, but it leaves me wondering... When did it become okay to rape whores?

They.really.do.not.get.it.at.all.

Since misogyny, which means pretty much forever.

Her son is a rapist. End. Of. Story. What, that feels bad? At least he earned the title, unlike the girl.

[doggie]

Dave Zirin, sportswriter, has a really good piece about this case and the connection between rape culture and jock culture in "The Nation."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/173387/ve ... e-culture#

that was good lets hope the the coach gets the boot. I know they need to hire tebow to teach them to be manly men.

[laura oz]

I saw a clip of the attack on this poor kid on Anderson Cooper. I was cleaning up baby vomit at the time, so can someone please clarify something for me? It sounded like a boy was telling them to stop and that she could be their daughter. Did I misunderstand? The whole damn thing just makes me sick. I would just never be able to look at my son the same way if he did something like that. I would still love him, but I could never uphold him in doing that and would obsess about what the hell I did wrong. That one young man's mom that posted the girl was a whore is just trying to justify -mainly to herself i think- the abominable thing her son did, but she can still go fuck herself. I get so discouraged and disgusted hearing women blame other women for being raped. That child was not to blame. At all.

[Jenny]

Meanwhile, someone just told me that if the girl's parents were Christians, why didn't they supervise their daughter and make sure she wasn't at parties getting drunk?

(...because clearly, only Christian parents care about supervising their kids, and, because dontcha know, if you don't want to get raped, don't go to parties!)

....fuck.

The victim's family priest spoke to the media after the verdict was given.

I used to live near Steubenville and have been following this story for months.

I believe parents are responsible (or at least somewhat responsible) for their minor children and and if the children are irresponsible or untrustworthy, the parents need to do something about it. Yet these parties were a houses where the parents were sleeping or out of town. If that is what happens when you leave your teen home alone maybe, they parents should have taken their child along or hired a babysitter?

And yes, the victim lied to her parents about her plans for the evening- however, that does not make the actions of the defendants any less wrong.

When discussing this with someone, the response I got was "I tell my children right from wrong, it's not my fault if they don't listen".

Do you think the parents are responsible (in part) for the actions and the circumstances?

[Guest]

I don't think we can make a judgement about the parents of the boys, since we don't know the situation. Apparently at least one of the mothers is making excuses for her son. I think the responsibility is widespread. It's all the people who didn't teach them right from wrong, it's all the parents who allowed teenagers to have wild, drunken parties at their houses, it's all the parents, administrators, and coaches who covered it up. Of course, the majority of the responsibility goes to the young men themselves, who despite all of this, should have known that taking advantage of a young woman in an altered state is WRONG.

Meanwhile, people who don't get a share of the responsibility are the victim and her parents.

Also, I posted earlier that I felt okay with the trial as juveniles and shorter sentences (I was hearing 4 years- until they are 21) because they are in fact children, but I'm hearing now that one might only get one year?! That is appalling.