Rape, Football, and Social Media

[Peas n carrots]

I've been so bothered by this story, I'm glad someone posted it on here. I keep thinking of all the "legitimate rape" comments that were made this last election cycle and the kowtowing and pedestal that "elite athletes" are placed on. We continually see professional athletes like Ben Roethlisberger get away with rape so why shouldn't these boys think that they will also get away with it. And as much as I love Anonymous, I'm more than a little troubled at the thought of them doxxing people who haven't been convicted of a crime. I just foresee this dystopic future of Anonymous justice, where they play prosecutor, judge and jury. So I am torn, the outraged citizen in me is glad someone wants some semblance of justice for this poor girl but the other part of me is worried about feeding an untamed beast that will later destroy us all. But for today, I'm mostly glad Anonymous decided to get involved.

I hear what you say about Anonymous. However, if the justice system was working here Anonymous wouldn't have gone to the trouble of hacking and releasing information. I think what they have done so far is good, but with all vigalante groups there is always that fear that someday they will take it too far.

[BravaAmica]

LaureElle, that does not sound extreme at all. It sounds like your son has a fantastic coach that expects his athletes to be decent human beings. I hope that if either of my sons join a team, they have coaches like your son's. I also agree completely about the culture of athletics. People in this country seem to worship sports teams and athletes, as well as celebrities. I would much rather see people admired for what they do for others, their community, etc. than for athletic ability.

I don't think it's extreme because DS loves the sport and it's a positive team culture. I've told some RL friends about his team and training schedule (including that the entire team practices together, so there are 5YO kids training with adults, all doing the same workouts [the kids don't use weights, though]) and they were appalled. "Oh, its too hard for such a young kid." Um, if not now, when? Another thing I like about speed skating is that it does not coddle the athletes with bullshit awards you don't earn. And yes, I ruffled some feathers when I told some friends, "If I want my kid to get an award for just showing up, he'd still be in soccer. Any medals he's won he has earned and he knows that."

I remember the one soccer team DS was on, everyone got a trophy and they didn't keep score. These were 5YOs, not 3YOs. So, yeah, no more soccer.

[Artemis]

This is getting a lot more coverage now. Apparently the guy on the video has now retained council, and his uni, Ohio State University, has issued a statement condemning rape, after getting a lot of flak on its Facebook page for continuing to have him as a student. If all the allegations are true, including the ones about Jim Parks, there's going to be shitloads of trouble.

I don't agree with vigilante groups, but if there was a cover up, i hope they bust it wide open, especially as it looks like the County Prosecutors have been involved. There's also a White house petition for it to be tried at national level.

[BravaAmica]

This is getting a lot more coverage now. Apparently the guy on the video has now retained council, and his uni, Ohio State University, has issued a statement condemning rape, after getting a lot of flak on its Facebook page for continuing to have him as a student. If all the allegations are true, including the ones about Jim Parks, there's going to be shitloads of trouble.

I don't agree with vigilante groups, but if there was a cover up, i hope they bust it wide open, especially as it looks like the County Prosecutors have been involved. There's also a White house petition for it to be tried at national level.

If that particular student is the one with the county prosecutor for a mom, it's probable the investigation was glossed over. Even if she didn't ask for such consideration, sometimes such considerations just happen without the other person's knowledge. I know this because my birth father was a judge- now retired. He was well known as a judge in my home county. In high school, I'd get out of speeding tickets and drinking underaged, once even breaking and entering, simply because of my last name. The police would see my last name, ask if he was my father, I'd say yes, and I'd get away with whatever. My birth father wasn't involved with me while I was growing up and he certainly wouldn't ever ask the police to let me get away with breaking the law. (My half-brother got busted drinking underaged. The cops brought him home. My birth father told them to take my half-brother to the station and book him for the offense. So, yeah, if he'd known what I had gotten up to, he would have insisted I pay the legal price for my actions.)

I don't know what it would take for this case to be tried in federal court. There would have to be zero chance of a fair trial anywhere in Ohio, perhaps.

I am glad for Anonymous' work in this particular case. They're blowing the doors wide open on corruption, abuse and cover ups. I hope those criminals do serious time.

[RosyDaisy]

The beauty part is that these miscreants documented everything on tape. Let's see how they try to get it suppressed as evidence.

I just hope the evidence doesn't doesn't get thrown out. These boys are indeed sexual predators, and I wouldn't be shocked if they have raped other girls/women. They belong in prison far, far away from the rest of society.

[BravaAmica]

I just hope the evidence doesn't doesn't get thrown out. These boys are indeed sexual predators, and I wouldn't be shocked if they have raped other girls/women. They belong in prison far, far away from the rest of society.

I can see a sleezy defense lawyer getting the tape supressed but that doesn't worry me. The jury pool is tainted, everyone in the county has seen or heard about this video.

[nataliemn]

Someone posted this link on this thread a bit ago but I don't see it now. It's worth reading (though sickening).

http://prospect.org/article/purity-culture-rape-culture

This part is the mindset I dealt with in varying forms for years:

Any woman who ever wanted sex—yes, that includes married women who unconditionally give permission when they put on that ring—deserves what she gets. Valenti’s piece is a brilliant and absolutely essential manifesto on what still has to change to get from “What about 'no' don’t you understand?†to the more advanced concept that women have a right to enjoy and control our own bodies. In this "traditional" vision of sexuality, it's not rape if you've already had sex, ever—except if you're married and another man violates his property. Your only role is to protect your purity for its future owner. If you don't do, you're fair game.

[BravaAmica]

Yahoo gets its slut shaming on

Oh, noes! The real tragedy here, according to the Yahoo article, is that the perps won't get to play football if they're convicted!!!

[Petal]

Who is raising such vile creatures???!!! I would be hoping that if my son saw a girl that drunk, he'd call her parents and drive her home safely! Why did nobody do this? I would be terrified and horrified if this was one of my children involved.

[Petal]

Many yes ago my sibling did an armed holdup. My uncle asked "so are u going to hire a QC and get him off the charges?". My parents' reply was no, that he'd have to use free legal aid and go to court. He got 6 mths.

The assumption that my parents would use their savings to get him off charges for a crime he DID commit shocked us all.

[Lillybee]

The defense is claiming that it wasn't rape because the girl didn't say no. They didn't mention that she was so drunk and/or drugged to say anything.

This reminds me of the nursing home rape where a woman who was mute and could only move her finger got pregnant and the court said it wasn't rape because she didn't resist.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The defense is claiming that it wasn't rape because the girl didn't say no. They didn't mention that she was so drunk and/or drugged to say anything.

This reminds me of the nursing home rape where a woman who was mute and could only move her finger got pregnant and the court said it wasn't rape because she didn't resist.

Because the default for women is to be available for sex at any time, by right.

THAT is the horrifying thing, just exposed once again by this terrible case and all the defense arguments surrounding it. It's the same exact mentality that leads to the concept of "legitimate rape" even being a THING to be discussed at all.

Furthermore, if you DO resist someone successfully and it doesn't end up in rape, we get to talk about how you're "frigid" and "broken" and something is wrong with you because you don't appreciate some "nice guy's" advances.

Rape culture. It exists.

Edit to add: I can't help but wonder. Imagine this same exact scenario, except it's not a girl being raped, it's a guy who gets drunk at the party and someone ends up sodomizing him on video after he passes out (which would, yes, 100%, also be rape, lest anyone here wonder) - would the same defense team say it's not rape, because he didn't "resist enough?"

[greek_chorus]

The verdict is in and the two boys were found guilty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 95541.html

They were being tried as juveniles so they'll serve in a juvenile detention center until they're 21 and will have to register as sex offenders.

[AtroposHeart]

The verdict is in and the two boys were found guilty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 95541.html

They were being tried as juveniles so they'll serve in a juvenile detention center until they're 21 and will have to register as sex offenders.

Good, but the punishment almost feels like a slap on the wrist

[MissBeaufort]

The verdict is in and the two boys were found guilty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 95541.html

They were being tried as juveniles so they'll serve in a juvenile detention center until they're 21 and will have to register as sex offenders.

GOOD.

[TheSassyOne]

I just read about the verdicts an hour ago. So the 17 year old may be in Juvenile Detention until 21, the 16 year old for at least one year [if not more]. I have to shake my head, because this hardly seems like justice for what this young woman went through and is probably still enduring from the community that supports the rapists.

I wonder how much one of the boy's ties to the DA office along with the "football is king" attitude in that town had to do with charging them as juveniles and not as adults, at least the 17 year old? Even when one is apologizing after the verdict, he said something like "he was sorry and nothing should have ever been posted to social media". :o Duh Doofus, how about you two never should have abused this girl that night, that's what you should have said never should have happened. For some reason, I don't think they "get it" and sadly I think the tears were because they realized their dreams are shattered, momentarily. I really have a hard time believing any of those tears were for the young lady or for their crimes. Probably crying because they filmed and posted their crimes online.

[Guest]

I just read about the verdicts an hour ago. So the 17 year old may be in Juvenile Detention until 21, the 16 year old for at least one year [if not more]. I have to shake my head, because this hardly seems like justice for what this young woman went through and is probably still enduring from the community that supports the rapists.

I wonder how much one of the boy's ties to the DA office along with the "football is king" attitude in that town had to do with charging them as juveniles and not as adults, at least the 17 year old? Even when one is apologizing after the verdict, he said something like "he was sorry and nothing should have ever been posted to social media". :o Duh Doofus, how about you two never should have abused this girl that night, that's what you should have said never should have happened. For some reason, I don't think they "get it" and sadly I think the tears were because they realized their dreams are shattered, momentarily. I really have a hard time believing any of those tears were for the young lady or for their crimes. Probably crying because they filmed and posted their crimes online.

I'm so happy that they were found guilty- their crimes were horrendous and sickening and they have put this poor girl through so much.

But I think what you said about them not "getting it" is important. When I saw the footage of them crying, I had the same thought. They just seemed lost. While I don't sympathize with them in any way, I think that this lack of "getting it" is due to their age. While they did commit terrible crimes, the juvenile courts are there for a reason. These boys are young and hopefully they can get the counseling they need while they're in juvenile detention that can help them to "get it."

I know it's not a good answer, and may not seem like justice, but it's something to keep in mind.

[Claddagh]

Any sympathy and compassion I have is for that poor girl.

There's already been a few comments here and there wondering if the boys are only crying because they got caught and punished.

[Guest]

I should clarify- I have no sympathy for them. They may not be adults, but they knew that what they did was wrong. Every time they talk about the crime on the news it makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. And they don't seem very convincing in their remorse.

But they are still so young and malleable. Maybe if they get some help, they can begin to see how wrong they were.

I've been going back and forth all day between thinking that they should have been tried as adults and been put away for 20 years and thinking that, as juveniles, their sentence should be different.

[LJD]

I have a hard, hard time feeling any pity for them and I agree with the previous poster - I couldn't believe that Trent's apology had only to do with the pictures and posting them on social media. My God.

[jebandpunky]

I lived a little ways down the road in Massillon,Oh for long time.Anything near these areas that has to do with football is blown up big time.The fact that this has to do with football players it doesn't surprise me as they are treated like kings in these little towns and its probably more likely people were worried about messing up their seasons then what happened to her.Not that it an excuse as nothing should excuse these players from punishment .I just have seen it all players being excused many different kinds of things just cause the town they live values football over anything else.Our town had 20,000 seat stadium and almost 8,000 season ticket holders so most of the school money is coming from football.And has over sold college stadiums during playoff games.

A lot of these kids think they are the most powerful thing in these towns .They feel they do no wrong or the town will die off without them.I am glad the courts punished these kids for what they did as it horrible thing.I wish parents would have more control over these parties so that kids wouldn't feel they had so much room to get away with this kind of thing.

[Shoobydoo]

I will be blunt. I hope these sick fucks suffer for this every day for the rest of their lives. They don't deserve any kind of redemption.

[notablesquid]

Oh, those poor, poor rapists who've had their lives interrupted...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/17/c ... e-rapists/

Did some alien invasion result in half the damned planet getting Rape Apology brains while I was out? WTF is wrong with people these days? Now (some of) the perpetrators are victims too?

[doggie]

I will be blunt. I hope these sick fucks suffer for this every day for the rest of their lives. They don't deserve any kind of redemption.

So we should just shoot them so its over? These are kids that did a horrible thing. But they are not adults and need a chance to change.

I don't think it is quite the same as a premeditated rape. Those are the real dick fucks that can never live in society.

[Shoobydoo]

So we should just shoot them so its over? These are kids that did a horrible thing. But they are not adults and need a chance to change.

I don't think it is quite the same as a premeditated rape. Those are the real dick fucks that can never live in society.

Not kill them, no. I don't think any criminal should be killed by the state. But it is a stigma they deserve to carry for the rest of their lives. 16 and 17 is damn well old enough to have known what they did was wrong. They deserve to be punished, and the system they grew up in that allowed them to reach that age without knowing better needs to be harshly examined.

They are old enough that being a rapist isn't something you can recover from. Either you are, or you aren't.