WTF Daddy Arndt

[B5SnowDog]

They don't look malnourished to me....the guys are pretty broad shouldered, and if you look at the most recent Christmas card picture, Wizzy looks age appropriate (she will be 16 this month, I believe). I don't think that it is food deprivation, I think that there might be some issues with the older guys (speech impediments, etc) that the younger ones have learned (similar to that movie "Nell" with Jodie Foster).

I'm not sure about the malnourished thing ... they have lots of "episodes" that center around food (pizza from Costco, cheesecakes on Thanksgiving, etc. etc.). There's definitely something going on, though!!

I thought honeyinthesunshine meant they were emotionally/socially malnourished, not physically malnourished. They're so deprived of normal social interactions, it's like they've been starved.

[Black Aliss]

I wonder if the Arndts are affected by some kind of genetic condition and/or learning disability. The fact that none of the adult children have ever left home, seem childlike to the point of sexual latency, and communicate in such a simple and limited way makes me think that there's something more going on there than parental manipulation. I don't think Mom and Dad Arndts' SOTDRT and self-imposed isolation benefit their children in any way, but it wouldn't be surprising if there are inborn factors affecting normal development.

The Arndts aren't the only fundy family where I see behavior that's in line with some kind of autism spectrum disorder. The need to organize one's life according to a rigid set of rules, the fear of social situations that are unpredictable and uncontrollable, and the belief that by sheltering their children they can protect them from the harmful situations that kids on "the spectrum" face when they're in schools and social groups (starting, but not ending with bullying) makes these families perfect candidates for the fundy Christianist lifestyle. I think neuropsych evals of these sheltered children would frequently result in an ASD diagnosis like Pervasive Development Disorder-Not Otherwise Specified.

[JenniferJuniper]

Is there such a thing as group autism?

I have wondered if Mark's alopecia was a possible catalyst for the homeschooling and the beginning of the social isolation of the kids. He and his two older brothers did attend school (which means Paul probably went until at least the second or third grade) and from the old videos, we know Mark’s hair was completely gone by the time he was of school age, making him a possible if not likely target of bullies. Rick and Cathy have always been completely obsessed with their kids and something like that may have caused them to begin to close ranks.

But I think it is worth noting that they have never been completely isolated. Most of the kids grew up in an older house on a busy street with neighbors close by. They do host those softball events and other parties that are attended by people outside the family. All of the kids, Wizzie included, go to a local Y and they've gone to places like museums (even a real science one) and historical landmarks all across the country. They watch sporting events on TV so they see the commercials, and they frequent ice cream parlors and fast food joints. The sons that do the court reporting travel into the big city where they hear all sorts of things at depositions and trials and interact with attorneys, judges, doctors, plaintiffs and defendants. And the ones who do the wedding photography must see all sorts of people in all manner of dress at the non-fundie weddings they shoot. One of them even filmed a pre-wedding video of some clients essentially making out all over the place.

If they were truly isolated they'd make more sense to me. But although they are a disturbingly insular family, they are not completely sheltered from the outside world (especially the older ones) which makes their behavior all the more bizarre.

[MamaJunebug]

Now, this is startling:

They apparently aren't accepting more members/website subscribers?

famteam.com/webcasts/

I remember long ago reading how they have a church but don't want anybody there other than those invited, but you could pay money to get special privileges to the website. The page above indicates that there is a way to join the website and then watch the Sunday and Wednesday services online -- but the link to join is not there, AFAI can determine.

Weirder and weirder.

[pixydust]

Is there such a thing as group autism?

I have wondered if Mark's alopecia was a possible catalyst for the homeschooling and the beginning of the social isolation of the kids. He and his two older brothers did attend school (which means Paul probably went until at least the second or third grade) and from the old videos, we know Mark’s hair was completely gone by the time he was of school age, making him a possible if not likely target of bullies. Rick and Cathy have always been completely obsessed with their kids and something like that may have caused them to begin to close ranks.

But I think it is worth noting that they have never been completely isolated. Most of the kids grew up in an older house on a busy street with neighbors close by. They do host those softball events and other parties that are attended by people outside the family. All of the kids, Wizzie included, go to a local Y and they've gone to places like museums (even a real science one) and historical landmarks all across the country. They watch sporting events on TV so they see the commercials, and they frequent ice cream parlors and fast food joints. The sons that do the court reporting travel into the big city where they hear all sorts of things at depositions and trials and interact with attorneys, judges, doctors, plaintiffs and defendants. And the ones who do the wedding photography must see all sorts of people in all manner of dress at the non-fundie weddings they shoot. One of them even filmed a pre-wedding video of some clients essentially making out all over the place.

If they were truly isolated they'd make more sense to me. But although they are a disturbingly insular family, they are not completely sheltered from the outside world (especially the older ones) which makes their behavior all the more bizarre.

Being near, but separate, from other people can actually make them even more insular. When I was 12 we moved from New England to Virginia, and our next door neighbours had a daughter a little younger than me. They were Baptists, we were Pentacostals, so I wasn't encouraged to hang out with her and we really didn't have anything in common. Over the 3 years that we lived there, I was informed of every negative thing that this girl did....smoking, losing her virginity, having an abortion (her mom told my mom), getting suspended from school, wearing "slutty" clothes, etc....it was all put out there as "you don't want to be like her", "see how bad she is" etc. If the Arndt parents did that enough, it might stick and when they see people out and about they see them as "those that they don't want to be like", not as examples of "normal" people.

[truthteller]

Rick desperately wants them to stay. This is his long-time dream being fulfilled. They support the family, while he spends his time running the website and TV shows.

A while back I sent an email over to Rick Arndt to get his opinion of freejinger and this is what he sent me.

[JenniferJuniper]

Being near, but separate, from other people can actually make them even more insular. When I was 12 we moved from New England to Virginia, and our next door neighbours had a daughter a little younger than me. They were Baptists, we were Pentacostals, so I wasn't encouraged to hang out with her and we really didn't have anything in common. Over the 3 years that we lived there, I was informed of every negative thing that this girl did....smoking, losing her virginity, having an abortion (her mom told my mom), getting suspended from school, wearing "slutty" clothes, etc....it was all put out there as "you don't want to be like her", "see how bad she is" etc. If the Arndt parents did that enough, it might stick and when they see people out and about they see them as "those that they don't want to be like", not as examples of "normal" people.

Interesting insight and a good point.

Still, you'd think at least one of the 10 adult males in that household would have at some point invited a cute (modestly dressed, of course) girl he met on their travels to join him for an ice cream soda and then nature would slowly take its course. Testosterone is a tough thing to keep under control, but Rick and Cathy seem to have mastered the art of it. Heck, if they could market their technique to the world (minus the fundie/no sex stuff) we could end up on the path to world peace.

[pixydust]

Interesting insight and a good point.

Still, you'd think at least one of the 10 adult males in that household would have at some point invited a cute (modestly dressed, of course) girl he met on their travels to join him for an ice cream soda and then nature would slowly take its course. Testosterone is a tough thing to keep under control, but Rick and Cathy seem to have mastered the art of it. Heck, if they could market their technique to the world (minus the fundie/no sex stuff) we could end up on the path to world peace.

They might have asked a girl to join them for ice cream or coffee.....but what girl would go more than once? What are they going to talk about? Jesus? Not having sex? Penguins? Wizzy? I would last maybe 10 minutes with one of those guys and would "remember" a meeting/class/have to take grandma to the Dr!

[JenniferJuniper]

They might have asked a girl to join them for ice cream or coffee.....but what girl would go more than once? What are they going to talk about? Jesus? Not having sex? Penguins? Wizzy? I would last maybe 10 minutes with one of those guys and would "remember" a meeting/class/have to take grandma to the Dr!

True, she'd have to be a bit slow. Or a big fan of tinker toys and Pixar movies.

Daddy Arndt has 13 sons and runs the risk of not having a single grandchild to carry on the family name. That would have to be some sort of modern day record.

Oh, and regarding the post above. Hi-ya, Daddy Arndt! I've always pegged you for a lurker out here. What are the big plans for Wizzie's Sweet 16? Will a game of Old Maid break out in the living room? Pick-up sticks in the family room? Will she be treated to a special screening of a "new" Shirley Temple movie?

Stop destroying your kids' lives, you selfish asshole.

[honeyinthesunshine]

I thought honeyinthesunshine meant they were emotionally/socially malnourished, not physically malnourished. They're so deprived of normal social interactions, it's like they've been starved.

That is what I was thinking, though I don't think I supported it fully in that post. Those kids look ill to me, and although it may be a product purely of the family's complete isolation, I think that there's definitely some physiological stuff (whether it presents outwardly in physical appearance or mentally) going on with these folks. I could totally be off base about the malnutrition thing, but then you've got the Maxwell's (who I believe totally do this) who post about food all the time. So who knows. I totally agree that some of it is learned behavior, I have a regional accent because I'm from New York, they have an Arndt accent because they're from Arndt-land. (Or whatever)

As far as the 16 year old with the stuffed animal, some kids mature at different rates, and some take longer to grow up and out of certain behaviors, but as a parent I'd like to assume that when you've got a teenager toting around a fucking stuffed penguin, you'd step in and put the kibosh on that shizz. If my (hypothetical) 6 year old just didn't want to use silverware, he wouldn't be allowed to just continue eating with his hands. Wouldn't you at least attempt to introduce something age-appropriate? At the least it would be a red flag, for most people. Of course, this whole family dynamic would be a red flag for most of us.

Also disturbing was the thing about Wizzy and possible sexual abuse from earlier in the thread. The whole situation sends my spidey-sense into overdrive. I'm a childhood sexual abuse survivor myself, and I totally agree with OnceModestTwiceShy on this. Who would she tell? When your whole family functions as a hive and the party line is happy happy happy all of the time, how would you even process this? How would you be able to identify abuse if you've never been taught that it's a possibility? Even small children who are abused know that the abuse is wrong, but the whole family situation complicates matters immensely. And what would Daddy Arndt's response even be? Pray about it? Make a "very special episode" about it? I'd hope it'd be handled properly, and I'm not saying that I know that it wouldn't, but with the lack of judgement that these people exhibit in other areas of child-rearing, as well as an almost gleeful willingness to redefine normal and healthy boundaries within their own family doesn't imbue me with confidence.

[lilith]

The backwardness and immaturity of the Ardnts can't all come from social isolation. There has to be something more contributing to it.

As noted, the older "boys" (some of whom are close to my age) work in the courts where they would encounter a wide range of people and have to deal with them as professionals in a very professional environment.

The photographer brothers don't seem to have the restrictions Christopher Maxwell does, so they would also encounter a wide range of people and behaviours at weddings, including drunken bridesmaids in defrauding outfits.

Then there's softball and the gym, both environments where they would see and hear men acting like men, not overgrown boys.

The Maxwells are far more isolated - the brothers who work try to limit themselves to working with other conservative Christians and the others only get to go to the church of the holy nursing home and to conferences full of fundies (Apart from the occasional FJ observer).

Yet the oldest two Maxwells are married and living adult lives and none of the children seem overly immature. Sheltered, yes, but within Steve's restrictions they all seem to act in an age appropriate manner.

There is an extra odd dynamic going on with the Ardnts. I was reading an article written by one of the grown boys about why he doesn't date and what he is seeking in a wife, and I couldn't imagine any woman being interested in any of them - nobody wants to marry a child in an adults body. I can't imagine a fundie father being comfortable with an Ardnt son either - their dynamic is odd and creepy even within the fundie world.

[kiwimusume]

Also disturbing was the thing about Wizzy and possible sexual abuse from earlier in the thread. The whole situation sends my spidey-sense into overdrive. I'm a childhood sexual abuse survivor myself, and I totally agree with OnceModestTwiceShy on this. Who would she tell? When your whole family functions as a hive and the party line is happy happy happy all of the time, how would you even process this? How would you be able to identify abuse if you've never been taught that it's a possibility? Even small children who are abused know that the abuse is wrong, but the whole family situation complicates matters immensely. And what would Daddy Arndt's response even be? Pray about it? Make a "very special episode" about it? I'd hope it'd be handled properly, and I'm not saying that I know that it wouldn't, but with the lack of judgement that these people exhibit in other areas of child-rearing, as well as an almost gleeful willingness to redefine normal and healthy boundaries within their own family doesn't imbue me with confidence.

Between the bowling pin episode and fundies' usual habit of blaming the woman for rape, I don't have a lot of confidence either. :evil:

[Sinister Rouge]

"bowling pin episode"?

[kiwimusume]

"bowling pin episode"?

One of the boys was going around hitting the others with a bowling pin, someone on here mentioned several videos where he was doing it. Instead of telling him to stop or taking the pin away, the dad gave the other kids a quarter every time they didn't hit him back, not because hitting back is the wrong way to deal with conflict or anything but because the kid who was doing the hitting was a "cute little marshmallow" or something. I realise that sexual abuse is a shitton more serious than that, but that's not a very healthy precedent, especially combined with fundies' usual attitude that rape is always the woman's fault.

[Sinister Rouge]

Thanks for the recap. That's... I don't even know what that is, but it's certainly not conducive to raising functional adults with clear concepts of right/wrong, natural consequences, or conflict management. Just when I think the Arndts have reached the limit of odd-ness, something even more bizarre comes up. Those poor adultkids.

[adayinthelife]

One of the boys was going around hitting the others with a bowling pin, someone on here mentioned several videos where he was doing it. Instead of telling him to stop or taking the pin away, the dad gave the other kids a quarter every time they didn't hit him back, not because hitting back is the wrong way to deal with conflict or anything but because the kid who was doing the hitting was a "cute little marshmallow" or something. I realise that sexual abuse is a shitton more serious than that, but that's not a very healthy precedent, especially combined with fundies' usual attitude that rape is always the woman's fault.

Dad Arndt is giving me a weird vibe from this story.

Gah...this family. Please just let there be one who escapes. I would give my left arm for a tell all.

[formergothardite]

One of the boys was going around hitting the others with a bowling pin, someone on here mentioned several videos where he was doing it. Instead of telling him to stop or taking the pin away, the dad gave the other kids a quarter every time they didn't hit him back, not because hitting back is the wrong way to deal with conflict or anything but because the kid who was doing the hitting was a "cute little marshmallow" or something. I realise that sexual abuse is a shitton more serious than that, but that's not a very healthy precedent, especially combined with fundies' usual attitude that rape is always the woman's fault.

Since I think Daddy Arndt lurks here, I would just like to tell him that that is some really fucked up parenting right there. "You're cute so you get to beat up people!" "You're less cute so your brother gets to hit you. Here is some money go let your cute sibling hit you some more".

No wonder the whole family is screwed up.

[Minerva]

A while back I sent an email over to Rick Arndt to get his opinion of freejinger and this is what he sent me.

That's...cute. He must not know many normal people if he thinks we're the isolated ones. My goodness...

[Coconut Flan]

Poor, pitiful deluded man.

[JenniferJuniper]

Wizzie is turning 16 today!

Mommy and the Manboys must be busy as bees in a hive whipping up super-duper special cheesecakes and dressing the penguins in their finest to ensure a fine time will be had by all.

But come to think of it, I'm not really sure what it is Daddy Arndt does. The Manboys seem to do all the court reporting and repairs around the property. Mommy shops, does laundry, and keeps a spotless (if aesthetically cold) house. You never see Daddy do much of anything except post Bible verses, link to anti-abortion articles, and ramble endlessly about absolutely nothing while one of the boys films him.

Daddy Arndt, methinks thou doth project too much. Why not come out of lurking and join the rest of us who "have a good deal of extra time" on our hands? It will be fun, and you can see how many of us you can save!

[johnhugh]

Wizzie is turning 16 today!

Mommy and the Manboys must be busy as bees in a hive whipping up super-duper special cheesecakes and dressing the penguins in their finest to ensure a fine time will be had by all.

But come to think of it, I'm not really sure what it is Daddy Arndt does. The Manboys seem to do all the court reporting and repairs around the property. Mommy shops, does laundry, and keeps a spotless (if aesthetically cold) house. You never see Daddy do much of anything except post Bible verses, link to anti-abortion articles, and ramble endlessly about absolutely nothing while one of the boys films him.

Daddy Arndt, methinks thou doth project too much. Why not come out of lurking and join the rest of us who "have a good deal of extra time" on our hands? It will be fun, and you can see how many of us you can save!

Poker and Porn.

[gustava]

What puzzles me is Mama's clothing. Those short shorts revealing so much leg are pretty sexy. That must drive those manchildren wild, without even knowing why.

And in a photo of her welcoming the photographer child at the airport, her hand is in the middle of his chest -- very, very possessive and not at all maternal. Icky on a grand scale.

[merrily]

Maybe I've been watching too much criminal minds and csi, but all these fundies and their controlling behavior just screams for an episode featuring a repressed son of a quiverfull family. They've done an episode with fundies before on special victims unit.

[StacyW]

Wizzie is turning 16 today!

Mommy and the Manboys must be busy as bees in a hive whipping up super-duper special cheesecakes and dressing the penguins in their finest to ensure a fine time will be had by all.

How could you improve on penguins' built-in tux?

[GeoBQn]

Maybe I've been watching too much criminal minds and csi, but all these fundies and their controlling behavior just screams for an episode featuring a repressed son of a quiverfull family. They've done an episode with fundies before on special victims unit.

There was an episode of SVU about a Quiverful family, with the mom played by Kathy Baker. They used the term "Renewal Movement" instead of "Quiverful," and the family allowed their sons to join the military, but the language was the same. The episode involved a closeted son. It came on when every Law & Order show was doing a Ted Haggard episode, and this was the one in which the Haggard figure was NOT the perp.