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WTF Daddy Arndt


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They make me think of 2 movies that they probably aren't allowed to watch. One is Elf. The other is Tom Hanks...I think it's called Big? They are boys in men's bodies. Very sad.

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The more I think about it, the more I realize well of course they are like this. You have to be exposed to things in order to question them. They have gone their whole lives and never had to think for themselves about anything. We (FJ) all have opinions (a lot of them) because we have dealt with things and have experiences to draw from. These MEN would be lost on their own. Like the ex FLDS or Amish who end up on drugs.

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If there is a faint ping going on, even Luke himself sadly wouldn't be aware of it. Speaking of "pings" though, I definitely detect one from Seth. In the few videos I've seen w/ him, he has just a horrible speech affect (worse then the other boys) and just a "quality" that is noticeable.

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I just spent some time looking through their FAM today part.... These guys are older than I am, and yet you can't tell at all. It's like reading the blog of a 14 year old. They read garfield cartoons, play spoons, and really have NO interaction with people outside the family. This is so sad. WTF! They have contact info on one of the pages and I feel like emailing these guys and being like "RUN!"

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I just spent some time looking through their FAM today part.... These guys are older than I am, and yet you can't tell at all. It's like reading the blog of a 14 year old. They read garfield cartoons, play spoons, and really have NO interaction with people outside the family. This is so sad. WTF! They have contact info on one of the pages and I feel like emailing these guys and being like "RUN!"

I had looked at their blog before. Boring. But I've been searching through FJ and their blog for the last hour or so. This is a creepy family. The boys have weird accents! They are so childish. I think 3 of the boys are 30+. They gather in their parents room every night to spend time together. Their birthdays in the bedrooms tradition. They are really unusual.

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Also, I don't understand why they are recording their daily lives and making a TV show. Does anyone watch it? They don't think its weird, making all of these interviews?

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Jude Arndt:

Seth Arndt:

Tell me it isn't true, the Arndt boys (even those in their 20's and older) can only watch Daddy-approved movies? WTF??

Erm...how old are Jude and Seth? I heard someone say they were 21 below, one was anyway, but that can't be right unless they have mental disabilities. It sounds like how the first and second graders spoke when I did my observations in classrooms. I am now very, very sad and feel a bit sick at how these boys talk because if Seth is 21, that is not normal at all in any range for someone that age. It's mentally at that of someone in primary school, not college-aged. :shock: I have a sister who's 21 and just, the difference is staggering. Beyond staggering.

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Erm...how old are Jude and Seth? I heard someone say they were 21 below, one was anyway, but that can't be right unless they have mental disabilities. It sounds like how the first and second graders spoke when I did my observations in classrooms. I am now very, very sad and feel a bit sick at how these boys talk because if Seth is 21, that is not normal at all in any range for someone that age. It's mentally at that of someone in primary school, not college-aged. :shock: I have a sister who's 21 and just, the difference is staggering. Beyond staggering.

They're 25 and 21.

The speech patterns are probably related to the fact that they are very isolated, their father appears to have an impediment of some sort and their mother has an odd accent I can't quite place. (she pronounces "milk" as "mulk" for instance). The oldest sons are out in the world to an extent and they are easy enough to understand (I think they also attended public school when they were young) but as you go down the line, the speech patterns deteriorate. I think it's Nate who needs captions whenever he's filmed because he can't be understood by non-Arndts, although it's interesting that someone knows enough to caption him. So there must be some level of awareness of the issue.

I can't distinguish them all, but the ones we see the most of appear to be of at least normal intelligence. It's their emotional and psychological states that seem completely stunted, hence the joy over Pixar films. Although in their defense, if I'd seen nothing but It’s A Wonderful Life and Miracle on 34th Street every single Christmas of my life, I'd probably consider Toy Story to be a vast improvement also.

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I wonder if the Arndts are affected by some kind of genetic condition and/or learning disability. The fact that none of the adult children have ever left home, seem childlike to the point of sexual latency, and communicate in such a simple and limited way makes me think that there's something more going on there than parental manipulation. I don't think Mom and Dad Arndts' SOTDRT and self-imposed isolation benefit their children in any way, but it wouldn't be surprising if there are inborn factors affecting normal development.

This American Life did an episode on testosterone, and two of the stories seem particularly applicable to the Arndt sons. In one, a man's testosterone level suddenly plummeted, and the symptoms he experienced - docility, lack of sexual drive, lack of ambition - make him sound like the archetypical Arndt brother. In another, a F-t-M transsexual describes his surprise at the effects of synthetic testosterone on his behavior - he experienced mod swings, found it harder to show certain emotions, etc. None of the Arndts have given any indication of going throughout that kind of stormy puberty or adolescence. Can parents really prevent that kind of thing with over protectiveness?

In a normal-sized family in which children had access to ordinary social and educational resources, something like this wouldn't seem especially remarkable. Whatever underlying problems the kids had wouldn't be magnified by a stilted upbringing, and would probably be significantly reduced by appropriate interventions and expectations. But I think the Arndt parents aren't really being honest (with themselves or with the world) that a houseful of grown men who show no desire to leave the nest and talk like first graders is the result of pathology, not parenting.

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If we were only talking about 3 or 4 sons, I'd be better able to accept the notion of some sort of hormonal or neurological issue affecting everyone, but they currently have 11 sons in their teens, 20's, and 30's, and all seem to behave in basically the same manner. The odds of all of them suffering from the same physical affliction seem extraordinarily low, and Daddy appears to have no issues with his sex drive.

No one really has any answers about what's actually gone on with them, although I'd be willing to bet that intensive early training involving extreme fear and guilt played some sort of role. But beyond that, I'm officially stymied.

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This thread inspired me to do some reading with regards to parents who infantilize their children. Google brought up several links to information on personality disorders like Narcissistic Personality Disorder (fits fundie dads like Steve Maxwell), and Histrionic Personality Disorder (Michelle Duggar). I'm not sure if any of them fit the Arndt parents, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something psychological going on in addition to their religious convictions.

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If we were only talking about 3 or 4 sons, I'd be better able to accept the notion of some sort of hormonal or neurological issue affecting everyone, but they currently have 11 sons in their teens, 20's, and 30's, and all seem to behave in basically the same manner. The odds of all of them suffering from the same physical affliction seem extraordinarily low, and Daddy appears to have no issues with his sex drive.

No one really has any answers about what's actually gone on with them, although I'd be willing to bet that intensive early training involving extreme fear and guilt played some sort of role. But beyond that, I'm officially stymied.

It would be extremely unlikely for all of them to have a genetic condition, but not completely impossible. (Each child would have a 50/50 chance of inheriting a dominant condition.) And "condition" might not even be the right term - it could be that the sons inherited a particular set of traits that made them especially vulnerable to ... "what's actually gone on with them." (I think you said it best. Because, good lord, what happened?) It's also possible that some of the younger sons imitate older brothers whose speech impediments, behavior patterns and communication skills are impacted by an inborn disorder, even though it doesn't affect all the kids. They didn't have any other peers to emulate.

I doubt there's a single answer, and think that all of the possibilities posters have suggested are plausible. It's just less horrifying to imagine that some inborn trait influences the sons' behavior than to contemplate the kind of shane and abuse it would take to create complete emotional cripples. Unfortunately, nurture probably plays a much bigger role than nature here, though.

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My gaydar is definitely going off on Luke (edited to add John too!). I'm watching a youtube video where they talk about how Philip had a plastic bowling pin that he used to hit the other kids with. There are a ton of video clips of him whacking the other kids on the head with it. Why not take it away? Papa Arndt also apparently used to give the kids quarters if they didn't hit Philip back because he was "a cute fluffy marshmallow". Way to create passive kids who don't stand up for themselves!

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I doubt there's a single answer, and think that all of the possibilities posters have suggested are plausible. It's just less horrifying to imagine that some inborn trait influences the sons' behavior than to contemplate the kind of shane and abuse it would take to create complete emotional cripples. Unfortunately, nurture probably plays a much bigger role than nature here, though.

I believe that for the most part, nature trumps nurture. I think we're born with a basic template of innate personality qualities and then our life experiences influence how strongly those qualities manifest themselves as we mature. And that's why I find this family so puzzling. Most brothers I've known in my life have not been all that similar in personality or preferences. And most brothers who live and work in close quarters invariably fight with each other - verbally and physically - from time to time (if not all the time). It's the nature of brothers. The constant harmony this huge group displays is a little terrifying, and I don't think it's an act at all.

Part of it is no doubt related to their forced isolation, but the parents had to play a very active role in rooting out any individuality or independent thinking. Rick's a total narcissist as someone mentioned, but there are plenty of people with personality disorders who have kids who grow up to be fully functional. He and Cathy must have developed some sort of unique, systemic approach to controlling these guys, and I don't even want think about what it must have involved.

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I believe that for the most part, nature trumps nurture. I think we're born with a basic template of innate personality qualities and then our life experiences influence how strongly those qualities manifest themselves as we mature. And that's why I find this family so puzzling. Most brothers I've known in my life have not been all that similar in personality or preferences. And most brothers who live and work in close quarters invariably fight with each other - verbally and physically - from time to time (if not all the time). It's the nature of brothers. The constant harmony this huge group displays is a little terrifying, and I don't think it's an act at all.

Part of it is no doubt related to their forced isolation, but the parents had to play a very active role in rooting out any individuality or independent thinking. Rick's a total narcissist as someone mentioned, but there are plenty of people with personality disorders who have kids who grow up to be fully functional. He and Cathy must have developed some sort of unique, systemic approach to controlling these guys, and I don't even want think about what it must have involved.

Definitely. It's one thing to be family oriented but it's another to be totally isolated! Have the Arndts talked at all about "training" their kids?

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So true. It's just a sad fact that we all deal with dysfunction and tragedy. Some have more than others, but if you live long enough, you'll get your share.

Mommy and Daddy have done a remarkable job sheltering their (almost entirely male) brood, but at some point, something is going to give and no one is going to be equipped to cope with it.

Aside from Mark, I can't really tell most of the manboys apart, although I am keeping an eye on Luke. Partly because I think he's the best looking of the lot, but also because I'm picking up a faint ping.

But, but, JFC and Jennifer, the LORD will keep anything bad from happening to the fam. In terms of mental illness, dysfunction, they will just ignore it (wait, it never happened -- silly me.) If something undeniable, such as a murder (my condolences, JFC) should happen, well that was just the mean ol' devil acting up! He attacks them extra hard because of their super strong special relationship with Jesus. Bad things happen to US because of OUR sins; bad things happen to THEM because of THEIR righteousness.

But mostly bad things don't happen because of Jesus.

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Thank you ClosedWomb! I'm a bit PTSD from her death and other things and undoubtedly bring it up too much, but it seems appropriate very often for the things fundies say.They're all like "Oh gosh, God loves me so much I got special pancakes!" I'm like "Wow! God hated SIL so much she was brought up in an abusive household with a mum and brother suffering from schizophrenia, thought being hit was normal, didn't see the warning signs and ended up dying from a slit throat with multiple stab wounds from her new partner. Nice God you got there. Glad he likes you. Better hope it stays that way."

Yeah, it's really weird, they don't seem to be able to hold the differing images of their God in their head. As I said in another thread I'd refer them to the book of Job. And, from my own religious schooling, point out that God doesn't like anyone personally.

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My gaydar is definitely going off on Luke (edited to add John too!). I'm watching a youtube video where they talk about how Philip had a plastic bowling pin that he used to hit the other kids with. There are a ton of video clips of him whacking the other kids on the head with it. Why not take it away? Papa Arndt also apparently used to give the kids quarters if they didn't hit Philip back because he was "a cute fluffy marshmallow". Way to create passive kids who don't stand up for themselves!

Oh fucking hell. I've seen numerous parents on Supernanny whose other kids suffered because they were too chicken shit to stop one kid who was misbehaving (including one who actually took her older kids to school late multiple times because she couldn't put on her big-girl panties when their younger sister threw a tantrum) but fucking JUSTIFYING the kids' behaviour toward his siblings?! By telling them that their brother shouldn't be held accountable for his actions toward them because he's cute? What the hell message does that give them? :angry-steamingears:

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Don't the Arndt parents ever want their house to themselves? They have a shit ton of kids, I mean grown men, why would they want them all to stay? Shouldn't they be looking forward to alone time? Crazy!

Rick desperately wants them to stay. This is his long-time dream being fulfilled. They support the family, while he spends his time running the website and TV shows.

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I don't think these kids a developmentally challenged as much as they are plain malnourished. Their daughter? With the fucking stuffed animal? She's definitely not where she needs to be developmentally. I'm not a health care provider, but I'd peg her at about age eleven, just based on her appearance. She looks prepubescent.

I had a friend who grew up in a family that was similar to the Arndt's, (not ATI, but super fundie people who isolated their kids in the same extreme fashion) she was the child of her mother's first marriage, so she was pretty much unwanted and out of the house by the time the really wonky shit started, and she related to me that one of the main things that freaked her out about her mom and step dad's parenting style was that they withheld food. Not just as a "training" method, but in general. Like, you're a 17 year old boy and you want a snack? Have 3 crackers. It was bizarre, and apparently pretty common, at least in their circle. Parents underfeed to stave off puberty, (and sexual inclination) to save money and as a punishment.

Also disturbing, as I've been reading through their clusterfuck of a blog, I've seen no mention of anyone going to the doctor. Like, ever. No physicals for sports, no annual check ups, nothing. Maybe I'm missing it, but I know that in my house, which consists of me, my husband and our big yellow dog, and at least once a year, one of us needs the doctor, or dentist or something. And, again, maybe I'm missing it, but if they aren't seeking any kind of medical care for those kids, who knows? They could be all sorts of fucked up not mentioned in the bible.

As an aside, reading their blog kind of reminds me of this article I stumbled onto a few years ago about the creepiest places on the internet, one of which being a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan board with over 40,000 posts, which isn't odd on its face, until you realize that all of those posts and replies (replies!!!) were generated by one user. The Arndt's blog reminds me of this, they're like one homogeneous unit, commenting on itself and replying to itself, while in the same house. It's really creeptastic.

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I don't think these kids a developmentally challenged as much as they are plain malnourished. Their daughter? With the fucking stuffed animal? She's definitely not where she needs to be developmentally. I'm not a health care provider, but I'd peg her at about age eleven, just based on her appearance. She looks prepubescent.

I had a friend who grew up in a family that was similar to the Arndt's, (not ATI, but super fundie people who isolated their kids in the same extreme fashion) she was the child of her mother's first marriage, so she was pretty much unwanted and out of the house by the time the really wonky shit started, and she related to me that one of the main things that freaked her out about her mom and step dad's parenting style was that they withheld food. Not just as a "training" method, but in general. Like, you're a 17 year old boy and you want a snack? Have 3 crackers. It was bizarre, and apparently pretty common, at least in their circle. Parents underfeed to stave off puberty, (and sexual inclination) to save money and as a punishment.

Also disturbing, as I've been reading through their clusterfuck of a blog, I've seen no mention of anyone going to the doctor. Like, ever. No physicals for sports, no annual check ups, nothing. Maybe I'm missing it, but I know that in my house, which consists of me, my husband and our big yellow dog, and at least once a year, one of us needs the doctor, or dentist or something. And, again, maybe I'm missing it, but if they aren't seeking any kind of medical care for those kids, who knows? They could be all sorts of fucked up not mentioned in the bible.

As an aside, reading their blog kind of reminds me of this article I stumbled onto a few years ago about the creepiest places on the internet, one of which being a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan board with over 40,000 posts, which isn't odd on its face, until you realize that all of those posts and replies (replies!!!) were generated by one user. The Arndt's blog reminds me of this, they're like one homogeneous unit, commenting on itself and replying to itself, while in the same house. It's really creeptastic.

I'm not sure about the malnourished thing ... they have lots of "episodes" that center around food (pizza from Costco, cheesecakes on Thanksgiving, etc. etc.). There's definitely something going on, though!!

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I don't think these kids a developmentally challenged as much as they are plain malnourished. Their daughter? With the fucking stuffed animal? She's definitely not where she needs to be developmentally. I'm not a health care provider, but I'd peg her at about age eleven, just based on her appearance. She looks prepubescent.

I had a friend who grew up in a family that was similar to the Arndt's, (not ATI, but super fundie people who isolated their kids in the same extreme fashion) she was the child of her mother's first marriage, so she was pretty much unwanted and out of the house by the time the really wonky shit started, and she related to me that one of the main things that freaked her out about her mom and step dad's parenting style was that they withheld food. Not just as a "training" method, but in general. Like, you're a 17 year old boy and you want a snack? Have 3 crackers. It was bizarre, and apparently pretty common, at least in their circle. Parents underfeed to stave off puberty, (and sexual inclination) to save money and as a punishment.

Also disturbing, as I've been reading through their clusterfuck of a blog, I've seen no mention of anyone going to the doctor. Like, ever. No physicals for sports, no annual check ups, nothing. Maybe I'm missing it, but I know that in my house, which consists of me, my husband and our big yellow dog, and at least once a year, one of us needs the doctor, or dentist or something. And, again, maybe I'm missing it, but if they aren't seeking any kind of medical care for those kids, who knows? They could be all sorts of fucked up not mentioned in the bible.

As an aside, reading their blog kind of reminds me of this article I stumbled onto a few years ago about the creepiest places on the internet, one of which being a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan board with over 40,000 posts, which isn't odd on its face, until you realize that all of those posts and replies (replies!!!) were generated by one user. The Arndt's blog reminds me of this, they're like one homogeneous unit, commenting on itself and replying to itself, while in the same house. It's really creeptastic.

They don't look malnourished to me....the guys are pretty broad shouldered, and if you look at the most recent Christmas card picture, Wizzy looks age appropriate (she will be 16 this month, I believe). I don't think that it is food deprivation, I think that there might be some issues with the older guys (speech impediments, etc) that the younger ones have learned (similar to that movie "Nell" with Jodie Foster).

I do wonder, how much of "age appropriate behavior" is learned from society? I'll give an example, my SIL's oldest boy played with toddler toys (and watched things like "Nick Jr) until he was 6, because she wanted him to play with his little brother and sister (he is 4 and 5 years older than them, respectively). When he started first grade he realized that the other kids didn't play with Elmo and Thomas the Tank Engine and stuffed animals and wanted age appropriate toys. He also acted like a 3 or 4 year old until 1st grade. The thing is, he has a high intelligence (he's in the gifted program at school, etc), so it was just because this was what was expected of him and he didn't see an example of "normal" behavior. I wonder if the Arndt's just don't know what is normal, and mom and dad encourage this infantile behavior, so they think it is normal. Remember, in fundiedom you aren't an adult until you get married, so it would be inappropriate to act like dad now!

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Thats possible-they dont know what is age appropriate as theyre so isolated and encouraged to act like kids by their parents

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I definitely think the Arndt's are emotionally and socially stunted by their lifestyle. You just can't mature and be like others in your age group if you never interact with them. However, I will say, after my family Christmas visit, that isolation alone does not make for immaturity. My 13 1/2-year-old niece carried her new American Girl doll around with her every moment during the family Christmas. This same niece never comes to the grandparents' house without a stuffed animal of some sort along. The 16-year-old finally stopped lugging stuff animals around with her this last year. These kids have been in public school all along; the family is very social and lives in a small town where they know everyone and everyone knows them. I think that, as a parent, if you just don't ever require any maturity from your kids and nudge them to give up the stuffed animals and such, they'll eventually do it on their time (maybe). When I was 13, my mother would have been aghast if I wanted to take a toy along to a family get-together. At 13, I was watching out for the younger siblings and cousins at family gatherings and entertaining them instead of dressing dolls.

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Thats possible-they dont know what is age appropriate as theyre so isolated and encouraged to act like kids by their parents

Still, wouldn't tinker toys and Toy Story eventually become boring to a 20 year old, never mind a 33 year old?

The isolation alone can't explain everything about these manboys. Not that I have any other explanation, mind you, but men their ages should be crawling over the walls of that compound from biological imperative alone.

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