Matilda and Feminism

[Deleted07]

Feminist Rant that came from the weirdest place! So on TV was that kids movie Matilda, I think you may know it! It was original a Roald Dahl book. Anywho, I checked out IMDB.COM after watching it, BIG MISTAKE...

There is a poster over there saying the movie is about feminism, I was thinking great! Since I am inclined to agree and saw that as a positive topic point, but upon opening the topic, the way the poster perverts that statement is really quite aggravating and not positive, at all.

Here's a quote:

"This the heart of what creates a feminist - when a man neglects or abuses her - usually her father and after that other men in her life until she says, "No more Miss. Nice Girl" "

REALLY? So to be a feminist you have to have been abused or neglected by a man? REALLY?

and they continue on:

"Women typically become feminist when men have abdicated their role to protect, nurture and encourage women - and instead become selfish and take what they want from women - either by being whiny little boys or being violent abusers - really it's about the same thing. "

The poster goes on to say that when 'Matilda' leaves the oppression of her Father and 'the feminist Ms Trunchbull' she didn't need to be a feminist anymore, and that she was now free to meet a good man etc. WTF?

Here's another gem quote from the same poster and their perverted view of feminism...

"Feminists have a perverted view of woman that she is at her best when she pretends to be a man.

Women are infinitely capable and infinitely different from men. Or else, why does the designation of Feminist even need to exist? If a woman who is capable is all a feminist is - she could just be called a "capable person" or an enlightened person, thus merely the gender neutral term "humanist" - however the term Feminist denotes something about women. Yet Feminism usually promotes those traits that are nothing unique about women at all - thus the term essentially destroys womanhood. "

I just had to share this BS when I saw it, and wanted to hear your responses to this diatribe!

[AVENues]

"Feminists have a perverted view of woman that she is at her best when she pretends to be a man.

:doh: So because I say that my body is MINE and MINE alone, I'm not out there to make men manly and sexually attractive contrary the fact that it's supposed to be mandatory, that I will not entertain men and respond to sexual harassment showing grace and pleasure, and wanting equal salary for the same work and equal opportunities... I am pretending to be a man? From tomorrow on, I'll pee standing up. I'll be pisseth against the bathroom wall.

[Artemis]

Fundies have a perverted view of feminism which they consider to be 'women being at their best when they pretend to be a man'.

Normal people understand that feminism is about insisting on social and legal equality for the female gender.

[Arete]

Uh, I was NEVER mistreated by either my father or any of the men I have gone out with. I am still a "feminist". If anything, a lot of the reason I am the way I am is because the secure men in my life expected women with a spine, not "helpmeets". They certainly were not afraid of social or legal equality for women. Maybe it was really abuse that destroyed my womanhood when my dad taught me how to change the oil in a car? :?

[AVENues]

One of the gems I have heard is, if a woman wears a necktie, it's proof she has penis envy :roll:

Anyone who turn on their TV and see the story of that girl in India and the protestants, WILL understand why we need feminism. Everythere. And we are a few thousand years too late!!!

[Effie]

So, the "feminist" Matilda was created by a man. Am I the only one who thinks Roald Dahl actually sympathized with this little heroine? Perhaps he was in fact a feminist?

"Women typically become feminist when men have abdicated their role to protect, nurture and encourage women - and instead become selfish and take what they want from women - either by being whiny little boys or being violent abusers - really it's about the same thing. "

So, how would this 'genius' explain why men are feminists?

[merrily]

I was rather surprised that the fundies didn't revere Ms.Trunchbull as the perfect parenting/teaching model. :roll: The emotional manipulation and physical abuse of children is there, also with a healthy dose of reasoning why children are inherently bad.

[B5SnowDog]

So, how would this 'genius' explain why men are feminists?

A male feminist? Now that's just crazy talk. ;)

[ElphabaGalinda]

I was rather surprised that the fundies didn't revere Ms.Trunchbull as the perfect parenting/teaching model. :roll: The emotional manipulation and physical abuse of children is there, also with a healthy dose of reasoning why children are inherently bad.

Ms. Trunchbull is exactly how fundies teach is the right way to parent. :roll: . I've never been abused or mistreated by a man, and if I was surrounded by men who expected me to be meek like fundie men do, I'd probably be less of a feminist. They have a really warped view of what a feminist is, and they took something that could have been logical and interesting and totally twisted it.

[jaynie]

I was rather surprised that the fundies didn't revere Ms.Trunchbull as the perfect parenting/teaching model. :roll: The emotional manipulation and physical abuse of children is there, also with a healthy dose of reasoning why children are inherently bad.

No kidding. Actually, I haven't seen the movie in years, but as far as the musical goes, if you imagine "television" as "bible study", the wormwoods sound an awful lot like fundy parents as well. Don't read, don't learn, girls should be seen and not heard, and more concerned with looking pretty/getting a man than with education, accept your lot in life without questioning, etc etc. It's not a perfect analogy, but I could definitely envision Matilda as a fundie daughter and Ms. Trunchbull as a Pearl analogue.

Meanwhile, if abuse by males causes feminism :roll: we can sure expect to see a lot of fundie daughters turning our way! In reality I suspect feminists are more likely to have supportive in their lives than otherwise (though obviously not in all cases).

[thoughtful]

IMDb can be a cesspool of bizarre opinions.

I looked up that poster - he definitely goes looking for opportunities to spout his theories about "feminism," abortion, modern life and The Very Important Subject of Masculinity. He seems to be one of those very puffed-up types who fancies himself to be professorial, handing down debate topics and saying "I'm just using Socratic methods."

He has five mostly-homeschooled kids, and considers the abortion his now-wife had when she got pregnant before they married "a cancer on the relationship."

From other threads:

Feminism is indeed a hatred of men and a crushing of them which leads to more abuse of women.

Proper male-female relationships are men leading and women being led - when that is broken, all is destroyed.

Feminism results from an abuse of male leadership, not the proper working of it, under which women are happy because men sacrifice themselves for their family rather than using them for his own selfish purposes.

Few Americans (etc.) are willing to see all the tentacles of the problems laid out in the film.

So here are some questions - what are the roles of these things in the issue of child prostitution (in no particular order):

1. Porn

2. The breakup of the family and marriage

3. Abortion

4. Homosexuality

5. Public Education

6. The Internet

7. The age of consent

8. Feminism

9. Prostitution

etc. etc.

This issue is connected to every other major issue of our age and all of history. However, we Americans cannot bear to see the truth because we can't bear to give up the things we'd have to give up. We are trapped by our pleasures - sort of like Brave New Word taken to its logical conclusion.

He's got a lot to say on this thread:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1441326/boa ... #201936211

And he's active on this October Baby thread:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1720182/boa ... /191020610

From the discussion for the remake of True Grit:

I liked her but also thought she was very tragic, not because her dad died or she lost Rooster etc. but because she was a sign of our times, a young girl who needs to become strong for various reasons and becomes a sort of cold, albeit admirable, person.

In that way she was a beautiful and ugly woman grown from her mother, an ugly hard girl. She reminds me of how my daughter was when she was younger (and my daughter is beautiful in her appearance) but my wife and I saw that hardening and pride and we worked to help her overcome it.

It's strength but not necessarily admirable.

:roll:

His input on Cheaper By the Dozen is pretty predictable:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042327/boa ... #189307235

Should fathers teach their boys to fight:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1023111/boa ... #167283722

A long thread on the Gattaca board:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/boa ... 9#18146409

First of all I'm an English teacher (but haven't taught hardly at all yet) and I can't believe how much schools are using movies and only reading one or two books per year - it's nuts

Can't imagine why he hasn't "taught hardly at all yet."

His profile and list of posts, for anyone else who wants to go exploring:

http://www.imdb.com/user/ur2701115/boards/profile/

[valsa]

The only way Ms Trunchbull could be precieved as even slightly feminist is when the kids are reciting that poem to remember how to spell "difficulty" and she wants to know why all the women in the poem are married (refered to as "Mrs.") Even then, it's very shaky ground to assume it bothered her because she was a feminist instead of, say, the fact she was a "Miss" herself.

But she dresses and acts like a man so, in this idiot's mind, of course she's a feminist :roll:

[lilah]

Yeah the level of conversation on IMDB can be hilariously awful. Don't go to the Beauty and the Beast Boards unless you like to read 50 posts about why Belle was mean to Gaston and should have ended up with him. Equally awful was threads about Waitress where the fans all feel sorry for the protagonist's abusive husband who is really a total woobie and didn't mean to hit his wife all the time.

And massive eye rolling at the wannabe English teacher who totally knows how classes works. Reminds me of the conversations with homeschooling parents who totally know more about how public education work than me, someone who works in public education.

Matilda is one of my favorite children's books. I still squee a little when one of my students check it out from the library.

[crazyforkate]

Ummm, isn't Matilda like 6? A very smart kid, for sure, but still a kid. I highly doubt she was thinking ANYTHING about meeting a man for a good long time.

[Deleted07]

What a bizarre poster, I didn't think to look at his other posts, considering he made me stabby with just his feminist views on Matilda! :roll:

Its amazing to me how these type of people come to the table with their own agendas, seriously isn't it an exhausting way to live??? It reminds me of that quote "If you look for the bad, you will surely find it!" Its the same with Fundies, they spend their lives looking for prime examples of God helping them, or of situations where God is needed to spin their agenda, all without using their common sense or logic. Its just infuriating to me!

One wonders what he does for a living, and if he feels this way WHY on earth has he got lots of horror movies in his review list! :lol: I mean he gave Resident Evil like a 9 star review! I'm surprised he didn't say she should have been at home popping out babies and making dinner, instead of fighting the zombie apocalypse! :mrgreen:

[Rosa]

on a similar note, check out the negative reviews of Sara Hrdy's books on Amazon.

Like this - about a book that talks about the various ways mothers cope with parenting across species and in different human societies, including the various practice of infanticide and abandonment in primates and some species (like some rats) that stop and reabsorb pregnancies if circumstances aren't good -

"While the writing style and many parts of this book are indeed entertaining and informative, I found the obvious pro-abortion slant inappropriate for a book about "motherhood". As a mother of six, I had hoped for more from this, judging by the title. I won't be looking for more books by this author in the future. "

[kiwimusume]

In addition to the obvious idiocy, this is rather ironic given that this poster is the one loading what Matilda did with gender implications when Matilda herself only ever saw it as the oppressed versus the oppressors.

[slickcat79]

In addition to the obvious idiocy, this is rather ironic given that this poster is the one loading what Matilda did with gender implications when Matilda herself only ever saw it as the oppressed versus the oppressors.

Yeah, that. It's cool if you see a feminist message in the movie, but I don't think that's really the point. The story could have just as easily been written about a little boy and it wouldn't have changed much.

[thoughtful]

I decided to read through that long Gattaca thread, and found this gem -- all one paragraph, no less:

Caring isn't enough, teachers who survive in the public schools subscribe to the mission of the culture. I do not. I'm a Christian. However, I don't teach my children to be like me in my religion, I just want them to think and care about things. I had a great discussion with the director of the abortion clinic in my town, who is black, - he came out to yell at me because we had said (and we always speak, nicely) that the black race has been devastated by abortion - he got very angry saying we had no right to talk about his race and that white people have killed far more - we pointed out how many unborn blacks were killed by abortion and that is way more than were slaves during that sad chapter in our history. He came back later and explained his position and we could both see that we both cared about the women and men who went in there for abortions but we had different ideas and perspectives about what constitutes "help" - we were encouraging them to give their babies up for adoption, and the director said he was too. Some friends of ours invited us all to dinner at their house to talk -and he asked for my wife's phone number to continue the discussion. This was great - I want to see my students think and care about things, even if they are not the things I care about. I don't see that happening in the public schools or even private schools but it does happen in certain circles and I'm going to be in those. I can do what I do best (counseling young people) without being a teacher. I hate being in a position of expecting a lot from my students and then being angry with them for not even trying. Though, I think they understand, I know some of the things I said to them really sunk in but I don't know how much good that does compared to how fast I'm becoming apathetic.

:roll:

Someone else posted:

while i disagree with homeschool and christian based schools i do think we share a similar position on the importance of education, though i may be more... extreme

i believe we should bring back corporal punishment, when my parents sent me to military school and allowed such punishment ohh my ass stepped in line, i feared the paddle or what we called "the stick", the foxholes ugh, the runs, oh and ugh the slop was the worst (run offs of other kids food) those were the worst of the punishments, minor were spit polish boots, clean the toilets, raise the flag at sunrise, anything from an uneven belt or zipline to fighting or cussing

america is dumbing down i'll admit it cuz now spanking your child is seen as abusive, kids can sue parents for child labor laws for mowing the lawn, kids divorcing their parents when they have done nothing wrong, its just rediculous.

my buddy from ireland was telling me in his grade school teachers were allowed lashings in serious cases wow!(he was in a private school thats probably why) thats a bit extreme but damn we need to look at ireland and their students are alot smarter than ours

my aunt and uncle wont even yell at their children, and they dont respect my aunt and uncle, they flip them off piss on the floors ect, but when ever i come in the picture there is no disrespect not fear either cuz they know i will punish them, hell last week (this may seem cruel) but my cousin jr was being a lil snot and broke my phone so as punishment i made him dig a 3x3 foot foxhole (he's 8 i didnt expect him to finish but you get the picture) if he didnt do it he's afraid of what will happen, while ive never hurt him directly only sore muscles, its fear and a set line of rewards and punishment that sets kids straight, you may have to threaten to get it but hell theres nothing id even think about doing that fathers 300 years ago were doing on a regular basis.

And he answered:

Well, for someone who disagrees with Christianity you have described the conservative Christian position on child raising perfectly.

The trouble is that Christianity is true as it was written by the God who created us - He knows how we work.

This is happening to America not exactly because we aren't a Christian nation, even non-Christians know that you must have consistent and often corporal punishment to raise a people who aren't out of control. However, American is fast becoming anti-Christian. This is because we were a Christian nation and those who hate Christianity aren't content to leave it alone - they want to destroy it so they try to destroy things close to its roots, how we raise our children.

Also, as men fail to lead properly they will, INEVITABLY, become abusers of women and family. And the best way and only true way a man can lead is as a Christian man, a spiritual leader and also a man who fights and is willing to die for what is right and true. And in the process lives are saved. This is the example of Christ.

So when parents aren't willing to punish consistently they end up being abusive. I've seen it over and over. My wife and I live in a college town and the professors who like BF Skinner are completely against punishment are the ones who end up beating their children or ignoring them because they can't stand them - they've become monsters. Then later those same kids are filled with anger and despair because they know their parents didn't love them.

A parent or teacher who loves a child, disciplines them. My students who ended up loving me were the ones who I disciplined. The ones I thought would hate me!

When we fail to discipline a child we aren't loving them, we're loving ourselves and hating them.

Proverbs 13:24 He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

Prov: 22:15 Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

And you know what, I spank my children (not hit) consistently when they are out of control and you know what, they're rarely out of control and so I never have to punish them! Instead it's all hugs and hair ruffling all the time. But if I didn't discipline them, I couldn't stand to be around them.

If you look, you'll notice it's the parents who won't spank who can't stand their kids and their kids are angry and annoying as hell. And you're thinking, "Whoah, future rapist - this kid expects to have whatever he wants immediately no matter what - he's a perfect sociopath!"

If you look up the bible verses I talk about online you'll see that that many people claim that the "rod" is figurative - but you'll also notice that the people who say this most are women who are obviously raising spoiled children and mama's boys. I know this because this is thew way my mother was. Fortunately she couldn't spoil me because she was a single Mom - no money or time - that saved me from being a completely ruined but I'm bad enough. I want my kids to have self-control - because without that you can't do anything.

I'm 35 and things have changed fast. Men have no clue how to be men - like many men, I married a "strong" "independent" woman because I respected her - now I wasn't a complete wimp but she was stronger than me. I won't make this any longer but men are women and women are men - precisely because we don't discipline men and so they abuse women, it's a cycle that can't be broken until we discipline children.

When I was in public elementary school in Kentucky - I remember the year my dad left - I turned 6, my mom asked me if I wanted her to sign the consent to corporal punishment papers - I told her, "I guess if I need to be punished I should be" and she signed them. The bible teaches that the fool hates discipline but the wise man loves instruction - that's what various types of discipline does - it teaches. Hebrews 12 says, "For all discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful but sorrowful, but to those who have been trained up by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness"

My wife and I do all sorts of crazy things, we have had foster children, we help families without fathers, counsel women going in to kill their unborn children not to do it - we mentor kids who didn't have dads in our church etc. etc.

And what you find over and over is that people even when a child has a father, he has been either abusive or absent in spirit - one way or another they have no father and fathers are the ones who are strict, well now our whole society is undisciplined.

I have three sons I make them work - hard! I make them haul wood, rocks, dig ditches etc. You see, I'm a house flipper - but my kids see me working harder than them and THEY LOVE IT! They love it when we drive home after a hard day of work.

I'm also sort of an academic, so when we drive home their mother reads various books like LOTR or Oliver Twist - and I have her read the bible and I explain what it means.

People would say we're insane, but we're what America used to have a lot more of. They'd say my kids are brainwashed, but if you talk to your average public school kid and you talk to mine, mine can think stand on their own and explain themselves easily and without fear of hearing anything from anyone - they've heard it all and they have considered it all and they challenge me and my wife all the time. Back when my son was around 8 he said, "But dad, the catechism says how do we know God is true - and then the answer is that it says so in the bible but how do we know the bible's true?" I said, "Yeah, it seems kind of like circular logic, doesn't it." So I referred him to Van Til and presuppositionalism - just kidding!

Anyway, long post. If you would like to keep the discussion going we could do it offline. This is long.

But I agree with you completely. I want to send my sons into the military but I don't agree with the Iraq war the way it's being done - but defending right is important. I'll probably encourage them into some branch if they want. However, my 14 year old daughter, is stronger than most grown men (and very pretty) - I will NOT send her into the military, what a joke, our wives and daughters have to fight because we're too pathetic! I wish I had been in the military - I'm the only man in several generations who didn't serve at least a couple of years.

He's a living Bingo game.

[Guest Anonymous]

I decided to read through that long Gattaca thread, and found this gem -- all one paragraph, no less:

:roll:

His students might be better off if he DOES become apathetic.