I had a baby and now everyone is telling me to use babywise

[FlorenceHamilton]

My children are in their mid twenties now. Some of these parenting guides were around when mine were small and some were not. My advice is to get to know your baby. My son did very well falling asleep on his own. Occasionally, he needed more cuddle time. He like to nurse in a leisurely way and spent a long time at the breast. Maybe that satisfied a lot of his bonding needs. My twins were very efficient nursers, but needed to be held most of the time. This was a challenge because there were two of them and their brother was only 2 years old when they were born. I had to juggle the physical contact between them. I really think that we all survived and thrived because I got to know my childrens' needs and also my limits.

I never used a cry it out method as a rule. However, there were times that I had to let one child cry for a bit until I finished tending to another. There were also a few times that I was so frayed at the edges that I determined that crying alone for a few minutes was better than my presence for those minutes. Letting an otherwise well attended and loved infant cry once in a while is not a catastrophe. Letting them cry as a matter of routine can indeed be.

Infancy is fleeting. Don't sweat the small stuff and savor all rest.

[thoughtful]

I do not recall any baby-swatting advice and that would have raised major alarm bells. It was big on scheduling (nurse, play, sleep).

There have been several editions, so it may have been in an older one and isn't now.

If it wasn't/isn't in Babywise, it is certainly in the sequel, Growing Kids God's Way (again, I'm not sure how much has changed with new editions).

From http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... 12.20.html

Critics also sharply question other Babywise emphases, such as introducing a form of spanking in children younger than 2 (CT, Nov. 13, 2000, p. 70).

From http://www.tulipgirl.com/mt/archives/000598.html

Spanking, Chastisement and Punishment: Three chapters in GKGW are devoted to spanking with Biblical passages to support Ezzo's theory. The type instrument to use is described as: "a somewhat flexible instrument (that) stings without inflicting bone or muscle damage…if there is no pain, then the instrument is probably too light or too flexible" (p. 217). Children as young as 14 months are spanked with three to five swats (per incident); older children receive more (an ambiguous term that could result in abuse).

Spanking Toddlers: "75 to 80 percent of all spankings will take place between 14 and 40 months. The last 20 percent will come sporadically over the next ten years" (i.e. when a child is around 13 1/2 years of age) (Ezzo & Ezzo, 1997, p. 218).

[keen23]

Thanks for the advice! He just turned 3 months and has been sleeping a lot better. We did discover amidst the worst of the sleep troubles (up every hour and a half - I was exhausted) that he had an ear infection. I, of course, felt guilty for getting so frustrated with him. Now we're dealing with eczema :cry: I thought breastfeeding was supposed to prevent those things! Gah!

Just reading the wiki article about babywise made me want to go and hug my little inkling tighter. I can't imagine just letting a baby cry because you say it's not time to eat!

I don't know how to respond when people suggest babywise. What's a tactful way to say "Are you crazy?!"

My 3rd had/has eczema. At times she has flare ups that cover 80% of her body (though it's been awhile since that has happened to that extent). When she was an infant, she was put on hydrozine, because the itching was so bad she couldn't sleep- starting at around 6 months. We also had a pretty strict regimen of keeping her covered in lotion- this stuff called Gentle Naturals Baby Eczema Cream http://www.target.com/p/gentle-naturals-baby-eczema-cream-4-oz/-/A-10963176?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=Google_PLA_df&LNM=|10963176&CPNG=Baby&kpid=10963176&LID=PA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=10963176 worked better for her than any other, more expensive lotions combined. Now that she's older- she's 5 years old- we have a topical steroid cream that we use when the flare ups occur- like when she's stressed out, or some new type of cleaning agent or surface has been introduced into her environment.

[TMS]

Ah, the Continuum Concept ! Thank you ! I was trying to remember the name of that book the other day. Loved that book many years ago. Anyone have any input on "Happiest Baby on the Block" ? I've heard it's a good alternative for people who aren't super attachment parenting, but don't want to go to the extremes of the Cry it Out's. Personally, I've been really disheartened by the number of presumably well-educated mom's who leave their babies to cry for long stretches. Can't stand it. I understand all kids are different and some need to fuss for a minute or two while settling themselves - but it's just appalling the lengths of time some of these mom's will let their children scream and cry. Horrifying.

I loved Happiest Baby on the Block! I read it when I had my last baby, and she was definitely a happy, content baby.

Infancy is fleeting. Don't sweat the small stuff and savor all rest.

I love that!!! What a perfect quote to share with new mommies.

[jenny_islander]

There have been several editions, so it may have been in an older one and isn't now.

If it wasn't/isn't in Babywise, it is certainly in the sequel, Growing Kids God's Way (again, I'm not sure how much has changed with new editions).

From http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... 12.20.html

From http://www.tulipgirl.com/mt/archives/000598.html

Also remember that Ezzo's books are sold in two editions, one with religious references and one without. The hypocrisy of insisting in one edition that Ezzo's system is the Biblically mandated (no), only possible (no) way to raise decent people (again, no) and pretending in the other edition that the basis of the child training system is common sense (haha, no) and SCIENCE!!! (oh, hell no) is stunning. Anyway, the secular editions end in "-wise" and the religious editions generally use the word "way" somewhere in the title.

[2xx1xy1JD]

If you do any type of scheduling, remember to:

- take the needs and personality of your particular baby into account

- manipulate feeding times by feeding early, not by delaying

With baby #2 and baby #3, I did some proactive feeding. So, even if baby wasn't crying for a feed, I'd wake them up at a certain time to eat because I knew I had to feed, change and dress baby and drive carpool for kid #1, and therefore had a good hour where I wouldn't be able to feed them.

[ilovetchotchkes]

If you do any type of scheduling, remember to:

- take the needs and personality of your particular baby into account

- manipulate feeding times by feeding early, not by delaying

With baby #2 and baby #3, I did some proactive feeding. So, even if baby wasn't crying for a feed, I'd wake them up at a certain time to eat because I knew I had to feed, change and dress baby and drive carpool for kid #1, and therefore had a good hour where I wouldn't be able to feed them.

I consider myself an "attachment" parent and I do this every morning the older kid has to be in preschool. I don't think its bad- i think its anticipating what the kid is gonna need. :)

[Rider]

We used it and it works. The authors are very clear that you need to respond to the needs of your baby, if your baby is screaming, feed it. If you kill your baby because of the book, you either didn't read all of the book, or you are an idiot. If you establish a schedule, it really does work. We have given this book at baby showers for years.

Our first slept through the night at 10 weeks. It was awesome.

Our second (every baby is different) took 16 weeks.

[CrazySister]

As someone else has said (tulipgirl or gentlechristianmothers, maybe?): What's good isn't original, and what's original isn't good.

[thetabmeister]

We used it and it works. The authors are very clear that you need to respond to the needs of your baby, if your baby is screaming, feed it. If you kill your baby because of the book, you either didn't read all of the book, or you are an idiot. If you establish a schedule, it really does work. We have given this book at baby showers for years.

Our first slept through the night at 10 weeks. It was awesome.

Our second (every baby is different) took 16 weeks.

I used it and it didn't work. My baby still wasn't sleeping (hardly AT ALL) by 4 months old. I had to go to demand feeding in order to not starve him nor drain my milk supply. And you know what? I'm neither an idiot nor a bad mother. I followed the book (read it dozens of times) to the tee and it simply. didn't. work. for. my. child.

Newbie, you aren't going to establish much rapport by coming in here and not only openly supporting an extremely fundy book, but also telling those of us for whom it didn't work that either we are lying about reading through the whole book (when clearly we really must not have) or we are stupid.

[Rider]

I used it and it didn't work. My baby still wasn't sleeping (hardly AT ALL) by 4 months old. I had to go to demand feeding in order to not starve him nor drain my milk supply. And you know what? I'm neither an idiot nor a bad mother. I followed the book (read it dozens of times) to the tee and it simply. didn't. work. for. my. child.

Newbie, you aren't going to establish much rapport by coming in here and not only openly supporting an extremely fundy book, but also telling those of us for whom it didn't work that either we are lying about reading through the whole book (when clearly we really must not have) or we are stupid.

Whoa, I didn't mean to sound so harsh. Sorry if I offended anyone. (I'm having a bad day at work and it carried over to my post :x )

It drives me crazy to blame a book for killing a baby. At the end of the day the parents should be the ones who decide the best course of action for getting their baby well fed and sleeping through the night. If you tried Babywise and it didn't work, you found a method that worked for you.

I'll say in a nicer way...We used the book and it worked great for us. We had the book recommended to us and we tried it. We have since recommended it to others that used it successfully.

[pixydust]

Thanks for the advice! He just turned 3 months and has been sleeping a lot better. We did discover amidst the worst of the sleep troubles (up every hour and a half - I was exhausted) that he had an ear infection. I, of course, felt guilty for getting so frustrated with him. Now we're dealing with eczema :cry: I thought breastfeeding was supposed to prevent those things! Gah!

Just reading the wiki article about babywise made me want to go and hug my little inkling tighter. I can't imagine just letting a baby cry because you say it's not time to eat!

I don't know how to respond when people suggest babywise. What's a tactful way to say "Are you crazy?!"

Breastfeeding isn't a preventative for everything, but it does reduce a lot of allergies. I breastfed all 3 of mine, and all 3 of mine have food allergies, one had eczema, & 2 had reflux. Some babies are just like that.

[InkyGirl]

Tried to post a pick of the little inkling, but couldn't :(

We've been co-sleeping and He likes the moby wrap, but at 16.5 pounds I feel like he's almost to big for it. I feed on demand, I tried a loose schedule to avoid him nursing to sleep but it seemed to affect my milk supply so he nurses whenever he wants again. Which is ALL THE TIME!

[sacrilicious]

Congrats on your little one!

If I remember correctly, 3 months is the time for a growth spurt, so hang in there.

I never tried Babywise, but the people I have talked to who advocated it either did it loosely or used formula, so that would have eliminated the supply issues that scheduling breastfeeding causes. With my second child, who is now 6 months old, I used the EASY (eat, activity, sleep, you time) routine from The Baby Whisperer, and it worked well for him. He tends to spit up a lot so encouraging him to go further between feeds helped, as did learning his cues and recognizing when he just needed to suck on the pacifier rather than nursing again and overfilling him. He is 6 months now and has *mostly* been sleeping through the night for about the past 3 months. He's definitely hungrier than my first child, who was probably sleeping 10-12 hours at this point, but they are all different. He does seem to be a better daytime napper than my first was, so I wonder if it is him or if the routine helped. I wouldn't worry about going by the times, but follow all of the steps and see if that helps. Some people act like it's either let the baby lead or let them cry for 3 hours while enforcing a routine, but in my experience you can do things to encourage routines and better sleeping patterns. I can't stand listening to my babies cry, and I've never done any true CIO. Sometimes they whined a bit, but if it escalated then I tried something else.

[Sprocket]

I'll throw in my $0.02. Two babies 13.5 months apart here. Routine, routine, routine. At about four months, we started: eating, bath, bottle, bed. My oldest used to go to bed with the chickens (about 6:30) and would sleep til 7. He didn't want anyone to look at him, talk to him, or rock him. He wanted to put himself to sleep. He's still like that at 2.5. My youngest fought the schedule but it was tweaked for what best suited him and now he's a happy little 18 monther who likes his cuddle time before bed (and so does mommy.) And he's just now sleeping through the night, so there you have it. No two children are the same.

Especially with my oldest, he was very routine oriented. Nothing could vary from the schedule. It meant that we were always home before the sun went down and never went out unless the babysitter came after he went to bed, but that's what we did as parents.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I thought I posted but I dont know what happened

Anyhow, I wanted to second The Happiest Baby on the Block but basically you just do the "5 S's:" Swaddling, sucking, SHHHing (loudly in their ear, and white noise in the car/room), Side (a certain way to hold baby) and Swinging (while baby is on the side, and while using the SHHHH)

I would swaddle and nurse, then put the baby in the swing, and they would sleep longer in that thing. I swear my middle kid was in her baby swing until she was 2.

[Olivia]

Congrats on your little one! I like No Cry Sleep Solution and The Happiest Baby on the Block.

I have to say, generally speaking... what's the big deal about sleeping through the night? I just don't get the obsession with it. Everyone asks, sleeping through the night? Oh no? Well, let me give you unsolicited advice to fix your baby.

I have a five month old and I certainly don't mind when she sleeps through the night, but she usually doesn't. And that's OK. I love parenting, and that includes night parenting (though I certainly have my grouchy moments in the middle of the night :)). She's so distracted now by this interesting world around her during the day, I'm actually glad she wakes at night to eat when she can focus. I think sleep training would affect her adversely.

But, we also bed-share and nurse, so night wake-ups are not as painful for me and we're both usually decently well-rested. That's always the thing I want to recommend to new moms, though of course it won't be an option for all. They've just made us so happy.

[dawbs]

and, honestly, sometimes, you just get the short straw on something.

My kid turned 2 a few months ago.

We did everything 'right' as far as nursing, routine, (bath feed swaddle sleep, whatever), white noise, etc.

We read "Healthy sleep habits, happy kids" or whatever (it was highly reccomended) and happiest baby on the block and what not...

She did. not. sleep.

She finally started sleeping through the night at 20 months old. occasionally. It's still not unusual for her to

You know that old saying about God not giving you more than you can bear? God has a very high opinion of what I can bear because she didn't sleep more than 4 hours in a stretch for a year.

(because, really, sleep deprivation is a form of torture for a reason. It grates on you to never get it)

She still sleeps kinda lousy-as in, she was up 3x last night. she didn't nap today. (and man is she a grump when she's over-tired)...and it sucks

And you know...you cope. You find a system that works and, even w/o her sleeping through the night, it still gets easier. her sleep issues were easier at 6 months than they were at 3, and easier at 9 months than at 6, and kept improving. It's gradual improvement, and I can't say how much of it was her getting 'better' and how much of it was us learning to cope, but, one day, you notice "hey, I don't hate this. We're doing OK. And I do relish the 2-am cuddle times. kinda"

(^please pretend all of the above is coherant. I'm operating on very little sleep, I kinda pulled an all-ngihter for work last night :))

[Rosa]

Olivia, it wasn't a big deal for me (and that's good, because our pediatrician said kids often don't until they hit a certain weight - i forget now what it was, 14 pounds? - anyway, my scrawny little preemie didn't hit it til he was months past the "typical" age.).

But for women who have to be awake all day for work or older kids or anything else, it's TORTURE never getting uninterrupted sleep. My most cheerful friend just hit the 6 week growth spurt with her infant and it reminded me how the nursing every 2 hours made me feel like I was going to die.

I have so much sympathy, dawbs. I do notice (my 7 year old is laying awake in his room right now) that neither myself nor my husband is very good at putting ourselves to bed on time, either. And I never slept through the night until baby exhaustion made me. Up through my early 30s I always woke up at least twice during the night, and I still do if I go to bed at a decent hour.

[OkToBeTakei]

So happy for you, this is the best time.

Except when he is 10 you will miss this.

Enjoy every sleepless minute.

[dawbs]

I do think some of it is pesky genetics too.

I mean, when I go to the doctor they ask me about how I sleep. They've tried different meds and all sorts of stuff with me, but, honestly, I remember having majr problems falling asleep when I was in 1st and 2nd grade. I never 'outgrew' that.

And, everyone has *something*. My kid doesn't sleep or eat well. This is a challenge.

But ya know...she's awesomely healthy and independent and seems smart and well adjusted (not that I"m biased).

If the worst I have to complain about is lack of sleep, we're doing awesome.

(although, FTR, that doesn't mean that 1-it doesn't still suck. a lot. especially while in the middle of it and 2-that I don't reserve my right to complain about it, because, see point 1, it still sucks)

But it's always SOMETHING.

[Olivia]

Olivia, it wasn't a big deal for me (and that's good, because our pediatrician said kids often don't until they hit a certain weight - i forget now what it was, 14 pounds? - anyway, my scrawny little preemie didn't hit it til he was months past the "typical" age.).

But for women who have to be awake all day for work or older kids or anything else, it's TORTURE never getting uninterrupted sleep. My most cheerful friend just hit the 6 week growth spurt with her infant and it reminded me how the nursing every 2 hours made me feel like I was going to die.

I just think it's ridiculous that *other* people care so much whether my child is sleeping through the night. Why not ask how we're doing for rest, if they're concerned or trying to make conversation? Little babies are not generally able to sleep 8 hours straight, but it seems like many people suggest there's something wrong if they aren't by 3 months.

I work, and I have an 18-lb 5.5 month old who hasn't gotten the memo yet that she's of a size to sleep through the night. I have to fend off a lot of sleep suggestions when people hear that, even though we're doing ok. Makes me nuts.

[2xx1xy1JD]

dawds - it does end, I promise. It can just take a REALLY long time to do so.

My hated-to-sleep-unless-attached-to-me baby/toddler/preschooler is now 13. She sleeps in her own bed in her own room, and HATES to have anyone wake her up.

[Turtle]

I just think it's ridiculous that *other* people care so much whether my child is sleeping through the night. Why not ask how we're doing for rest, if they're concerned or trying to make conversation? Little babies are not generally able to sleep 8 hours straight, but it seems like many people suggest there's something wrong if they aren't by 3 months.

I work, and I have an 18-lb 5.5 month old who hasn't gotten the memo yet that she's of a size to sleep through the night. I have to fend off a lot of sleep suggestions when people hear that, even though we're doing ok. Makes me nuts.

I feel like I got that a lot with my first. "Is he a good baby? Does he sleep through the night?" I found it annoying too. Especially because it was usually followed by a lot of unsolicited your-baby-must-be-spoiled advice.

He didn't sleep through the night until he was 2. He's a wonderful sleeper now though, so it will get better eventually.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Whoa, I didn't mean to sound so harsh. Sorry if I offended anyone. (I'm having a bad day at work and it carried over to my post :x )

It drives me crazy to blame a book for killing a baby. At the end of the day the parents should be the ones who decide the best course of action for getting their baby well fed and sleeping through the night. If you tried Babywise and it didn't work, you found a method that worked for you.

I'll say in a nicer way...We used the book and it worked great for us. We had the book recommended to us and we tried it. We have since recommended it to others that used it successfully.

I think that at the end of the day, parents are ultimately responsible for the health and safety of their children. Following bad advice is not an excuse for negligence.

That said, I would not deliberately refer anyone to a book that contained advice that I knew could be harmful to some children.