Yukky submission photo

[Hisey]

Laura Grace Robins, owner of Unmasking Feminism, was really taken with this photo. She says it depicts what submission is really like:

http://unmaskingfeminism.wordpress.com/

I find it kind of sadiomasochistic, don't know why. Anyhoos, I thought submission was supposed to be so joyful! so freeing! so wonderful! This photo doesn't show any of that.

Laura Grace is the sad-sounding chick who used to write Full of Grace, Seasoned with Salt and who once compared marriage to dog-training (with the wife being a dog, of course)

[kpmom]

Ewww. What an odd picture.

[Lillybee]

I find that photo disturbing. Could the woman have just been spanked?

[Kaylee]

Possibly. The photo's by Jenny Boot, a Dutch photographer who specializes in BDSM & fetish shoots.

[ladidah]

Is she a fundie/fundie-lite or just into "submission"? This photo would definitely have not been approved for Christian viewing by any of my fundie-lite influences from childhood. Fundie/fundie-lite standards have changed a lot, if this is now something you just slap up on your blog!

[AnnieC 305]

I find that photo disturbing. Could the woman have just been spanked?

Yes.

I free admit to being a member of a BDSM site, and that looks a lot like some of the pictures that are shared there. I bet if I put it up and asked if it was a BDSM picture or not a lot of people there would say yet.

Which is making me think that the only difference between "Godly" submission and "BDSM" submission is that in the BDSM world Dominant men are expected to be able to give their submissive women an orgasm but in the godly world women are sheltered so they don't expect it and the men don't have to work that hard.

[jenny_islander]

All I can say is, Your Kink Is Not My Kink, which I don't think was the reaction the blog owner was going for! Also I hope they agreed on a script and a safeword beforehand, or else we're looking at a pair of Goreans.

[Claddagh]

Personally I fail to see how it is "wifely submission."

There is nothing forceful or doormatish about it.

Considering the woman is stark naked and the man is fully clothed I'd say otherwise.

Brother Claddagh: "If you wanted to you could draw a picture that shows better submission than that photograph." Brother Claddagh also thinks it's funny that the lady used a BDSM photo. I wonder if she realizes it?

[Black Aliss]

I'm glad they're getting their kink on, but I don't think that's quite what Paul had in mind when he was writing to the Ephesians (Ephesians 5:22)

[AnnieC 305]

Found it!

http://www.somethingdark.eu/issue-2/pag ... raphy.html

Also this might be a better illustration of "godly" submission to the usual "fundie" man.

http://www.jennyboot.nl/images/gallerie ... 20copy.jpg

(No nudity in that one)

[valsa]

That is a yukky photo:

1) The power dynamic between a completely naked woman and a fully clothed man

2) It's hard to tell for sure (because her face is covered) but that guy looks old enough to be that woman's father

3) The woman just looks hunched over and uncomfortable

4) Their positions in relation to one another look creepy due to the forced intimacy (the only thing more creepy than violating someone's personal space is dragging them bodily into your personal space)

5) It looks like it was taken in someone's basement/sex dungeon

None of these are an issue with what the photo's original purpose is (to titillate) However, the people at UF seem to be taking this as some sort of photographic manifesto on normal male-female relations.

[emmyfair]

I have the shivers. No wait, dry heaves ... oh, I can't tell. That picture in the context it's posted in is really, really disturbing. How could a woman protect herself and her children in a "naked" vulnerablity like that? Giving up power to someone else doesn't absolve one of being an adult - it means you get to own the other persons choices without any control in the matter. Now that's sickening.

[ladidah]

That is a yukky photo:

1) The power dynamic between a completely naked woman and a fully clothed man

2) It's hard to tell for sure (because her face is covered) but that guy looks old enough to be that woman's father

3) The woman just looks hunched over and uncomfortable

4) Their positions in relation to one another look creepy due to the forced intimacy (the only thing more creepy than violating someone's personal space is dragging them bodily into your personal space)

5) It looks like it was taken in someone's basement/sex dungeon

None of these are an issue with what the photo's original purpose is (to titillate) However, the people at UF seem to be taking this as some sort of photographic manifesto on normal male-female relations.

Yes, they do. From the comments: "We did not know where the photo came from. Regardless, its still captures the spirit and is really quite mild in comparison. I see love, trust, respect, and really not much sexual at all."

As if the problem were whether the photo is "sexual," not what kind of power relations are acceptable in the entirety of a heterosexual relationship.

[Peas n carrots]

Picture is worth a thousand words. When I look at it I see this: the man is fully clothed, which means he is able to fully participate in life outside the home. The woman's nakedness forces her to stay in the home, and therefore be dependent to the man (who she is bowing to). As Valsa noted there is a strange power dynamic going on in part to the age difference between the subjects. I don't get the sense that she is or has been pleasured. I feel the male subjects facial expression shows more of a paternal emoting than one of emoting feelings to a sexual partner.

I think the artist gave us a wonderfully puzzling piece of work, and UF has totally missed the point. Plus if they find this photo comforting that is even more messed up.

[Kitty]

Personally I don't think the photo is that squicky, though sexual submission is not my cup of tea. But yeah, if that's what Christian wifely submission is supposed to be.... Errr... That's creepy.

[LilMissMetaphor]

It's like he's trying to help her give birth. Or take a dump. Either way, not cute.

[guidedbybobafett]

... That seems to be very at odds with what ~christian wifely submission~ is supposed to be, though entirely and completely what a lot of D/s relationships are. In the context she is assuming, that photo is incredibly strange. Posting it seems naive in a way.

[keen23]

One of the commenters identified this as a Jenny Boot photo, probably being used without her permission. Here's the picture in color- http://www.somethingdark.eu/issue-2/pag ... raphy.html

And, nevermind- Annie C beat me to the link.

[AnnieC 305]

To me it looks like he's comforting her after a heavy emotional "scene", or BDSM type encounter, he's holding her because she literally collapsed in his arms.

To me it's not squicky, even with her nudity or his age when taken in the original context. That context assumes a single encounter, not an entire life, and that both partners came to it with full knowledge and consent. In some cases that sort of thing can be deeply intimate and extremely therapeutic.

Given how sheltered the SAHD are, though, this is NOT an image you want them to emulate. In a marriage with no out (education/job/life skills) with that much of an age difference (we've seen that a few times, haven't we?) and not enough knowledge to know what they're consenting to that image speaks of something ripe for all kinds of abuse.

If that's what "godly" submission is than to me it's another example of evil done in the name of God.

[fundyfunland]

I see I'm clearly not the only one who thought it was some BDSM photo. I pointed that out and asked the poster whether or not she thought this is how Mary Magdalene wanted it, or perhaps it was the other way around really :o

[jenny_islander]

It reminds me of something the Gentle Christian Mothers dug up: the earliest published reference to a ritual of explaining to a family member that they had done wrong and must be punished, lovingly striking them on the hind parts, then comforting them afterward and proclaiming that right relationship had been restored, is not in a child training manual. It's in a sex manual for married people.

[fundyfunland]

It's like he's trying to help her give birth. Or take a dump. Either way, not cute.

:lol: :lol: :lol: That was amazing!!

[MamaJunebug]

What the fuck is that mark on her forehead??

I'm not into SM but even I immediately thought of SM when I saw it.

The thing that bothers me most is that it reminds me of the line from the old spiritual, "Rock of Ages": "...naked, come to thee for dress." But that is sung to God/Jesus, a plea to give salvation and forgiveness. No husband should ever be considered as god. If the blogger has that in mind, she is completely wrong.

[Closed Womb]

What the fuck is that mark on her forehead??

I'm not into SM but even I immediately thought of SM when I saw it.

The thing that bothers me most is that it reminds me of the line from the old spiritual, "Rock of Ages": "...naked, come to thee for dress." But that is sung to God/Jesus, a plea to give salvation and forgiveness. No husband should ever be considered as god. If the blogger has that in mind, she is completely wrong.

I think it's hair that looks like a mark.

I don't know what "Godly Submission" looks like, but it surely does not look like this. The photo does not bother me, but it bothers me as a representation of "Godly Submission", the place of a woman, etc.

[sarahbrownie]

Yes.

I free admit to being a member of a BDSM site, and that looks a lot like some of the pictures that are shared there. I bet if I put it up and asked if it was a BDSM picture or not a lot of people there would say yet.

Which is making me think that the only difference between "Godly" submission and "BDSM" submission is that in the BDSM world Dominant men are expected to be able to give their submissive women an orgasm but in the godly world women are sheltered so they don't expect it and the men don't have to work that hard.

That is the first thing I thought of. I don't have a problem with BDSM, but I think it usually because I don't know the context in which it was taken and this 50 Shades of Grey aka abuse-mistaken-as-kink makes me extremely uncomfortable.