Once again, this adoptive mom is pissing me off.

[Guest Anonymous]

One of our family friends had to disrupt in order for their child to be placed in a residential facility for his safety and the family's. He was with this family for 8 years and wasn't making progress the final straw came when he threatened to sexually assault one of the female staff at school and they realized he wasn't safe in his environment. He stayed in residential until he turned 18 and from what I can tell has turned out to be a fine young man and is still close to his family and was able to get the treatment that they couldn't afford even with years of documentation.

Having a child placed in residential is not easy by any means and when they are adopted you're on your own. I think a reason for some many disruptions is parents going into it with too high expectations or not knowing what they are going to be dealing with. I do remember a blog where a family had to re-home their son who was sexually abusing their daughters, but the mom fought tooth and nail and worked her ass off to find him a family where he could heal and visited him on a regular basis at the treatment center he was in. I don't know if he ever found a family, but she never stopped looking for one or fighting for him.

Yeah, that is the kind of 'disruption' I was thinking of. One of my friends had an adopted brother whose adoption was disrupted back in the 90s, at the child's request and under extremely painful conditions and after lengthy consideration about what would be best for him. His adoptive parents were heartbroken at the loss and never ever considered him to be at fault or beyond help, even when it became apparent that he needed and himself wanted different care than he could get in a family home.

I'm just thinking of Emma and Justus and Lovelie, and now this family, and wondering what the hell happens in an instance where a family wants to off-load a child after such a short-time. There must be some kind of process they go through and some consideration of the other children's well-being too. On the one hand, I can understand why one of the existing adoptees resented having another adoptee shipped in in lieu of Christmas presents, but at the same time, I can imagine it must also be terrifying for an adopted child to discover that a child has been shipped out of the family for not 'fitting in'. What does that say about the permanancy of the other's children's adoptions? Could it be them next?

The whole situation is horrifying on so many levels and yet I could see it easily becoming a 'thing' amongst that subset of adopters who do it for some showy reason other than wanting to give a genuine, permanent, forever home to a child who needs them.

[lilith]

QFT.

Why are they angry with her that her Chinese isn't perfect either? Considering where she grew up how would it be?

How do they know her Chinese isn't dialect anyway? I speak dialect English, dialect Scots and used to speak dialect Japanese. If you speak RP or are from a different part of the nation you might find it strange. A Northern Irish comrade recently asked me about using "innit". I have the usage where it's a bit of a topic marker in a sentence though I don't consciously think of this (like "David was late into work today, innit"). She finds this funny and I find how she says "It's just the craic" for "We were just having a laugh" and "belter" and other things funny but nice.

Wee Linzi could be speaking rural Chinese or a dialect from a particular city and the Taiwanese doctor didn't get it. Chinese is fucking complex as hell, like English is.

That's very true, there are at least fourteen recognised Chinese dialects, and regional variations within those, whereas most Taiwanese born people speak mandarin. I would assume a young child in an orphanage would only know her regional dialect.

I remember reading a book about Mao that was talking about how when he gave his early speeches in Shaanxi many of the audience couldn't understand anything he was saying because the dialect he spoke had almost nothing in common with that which many of the audience knew, and his regional accent further obscured his words, so I guess the dialects are very different from each other.

It's a lot to expect of a little girl who grew up in an orphanage and has suddenly been transported to a new family in a very different culture, to expect her to instantly learn English and to understand standard mandarin, which she may never have heard spoken before.

[JesusFightClub]

Totally agree. Conversation I had recently:

Colleague: Jim no in today?

Me: Nah he's not, innit. Think he's away. Want me to check?

Colleague: Aye, if ye can.

Me: *checking* Nah, don't think he's in, but he's not put owt in the calendar. Need his mobile or?"

Colleague. No, ye're alright. I'll just go and send him an email.

None of that is standard RP English. To make a copy:

Colleague: Is James not present today?

Me: I do not think he is. Shall I check where he is?

Colleague: Yes, if that's possible.

Me: No, I do not think he will be in, but he has not updated his calendar. Shall I give you his phone number?

Colleague: No, I do not need that. I will send him an email instead when I return to my desk.

If Dr Zhao was expecting the wee Linzi to sound more like the second than the first, that may be the problem.

For some people, that's standard, but most people have dialectic or linguistic variants. Linzi's "slurred speech" could be absolutely normal for her area of China - I've seen English kids bewildered at Scottish kids speaking Scots.

[moodygirl86]

Totally agree. Conversation I had recently:

Colleague: Jim no in today?

Me: Nah he's not, innit. Think he's away. Want me to check?

Colleague: Aye, if ye can.

Me: *checking* Nah, don't think he's in, but he's not put owt in the calendar. Need his mobile or?"

Colleague. No, ye're alright. I'll just go and send him an email.

None of that is standard RP English. To make a copy:

Colleague: Is James not present today?

Me: I do not think he is. Shall I check where he is?

Colleague: Yes, if that's possible.

Me: No, I do not think he will be in, but he has not updated his calendar. Shall I give you his phone number?

Colleague: No, I do not need that. I will send him an email instead when I return to my desk.

If Dr Zhao was expecting the wee Linzi to sound more like the second than the first, that may be the problem.

For some people, that's standard, but most people have dialectic or linguistic variants. Linzi's "slurred speech" could be absolutely normal for her area of China - I've seen English kids bewildered at Scottish kids speaking Scots.

JFC, you just reminded me of a hilarious text exchange I had with my mum recently. It was her birthday in November so I went down there with her pressie. She'd asked me for a certain kind of slippers from Marks and Sparks, but I couldn't find the ones she'd specified, so I bought a plus size box of Celebrations instead. I wrapped it up and left it with her to open on the day. On the morning of her birthday, she texted me with "Thank you darling, lovely slippers". (Our family have a very sarcastic sense of humour). Before I could reply, she sent one back saying she was only joking, the chocolates were great. But she'd recently got a new phone which she was still getting to grips with, plus she sent the text in the dark without her glasses on, so the message I received read: "Lomly jokin, chocs are fret!" Although I understood the gist of the message, I thought, "Why is she talking Scottish???"

[valsa]

I hope she's also had this little girl tested for hearing problems. Speaking loudly, speech issues (assuming she even has them), and having problems answering questions appropriately could all stem from not being able to hear well.

[chaotic life]

There is an UGLY underbelly to adoption, especially international adoptions and especially popular countries like China. There are families who deliberately connect to adopt disrupted children because they want to adopt from the original countries but cannot afford it. There are families who hold the idea that if a child doesn't work out in the first home, then they were merely meant to be a "servant" by bringing the child to their REAL forever family.

Once an adoption is finalized, legally they can be rehomed without legal ramifications just like any birthparent can place a newborn. The FBI was cracking down on transporting these kids across state lines a few years ago, but it still goes on all the time.

I don't know if they still function but there used to be yahoo groups set up just for this. People would post what type of child they had to offer and others would post what type of child they were looking for. Had that cherry popped when a good friend decided to rescue her own children's orphanage best friends after their adoptive family dumped them into a Psych hospital and refused to bring them back but was posting them all over the yahoo groups. She and I both went digging to figure out what was going on and whether we had concerns the kids were hurt to the point they would be dangerous in her home.

That was about eight years ago. It's possible the groups I saw are gone. But the general concept is still going to be the same.

These people adopted one of their children from a disruption. Whereever these families are connecting now, this family already knows where and how to find them. If they quit, and she really does sound closer to quiting than is typical in the early adjustment, then she already knows how to offer this child up s a commodity to those shopping for her.

I can hope and pray that they require proof that any new family is safe and skilled for dealing with this child. However, to this day the only families I have EVER seen actually vetting new families are those who go through facilitators or adoption agencies to re-home their children.

[mirele]

Totally agree. Conversation I had recently:

Colleague: Jim no in today?

Me: Nah he's not, innit. Think he's away. Want me to check?

Colleague: Aye, if ye can.

Me: *checking* Nah, don't think he's in, but he's not put owt in the calendar. Need his mobile or?"

Colleague. No, ye're alright. I'll just go and send him an email.

None of that is standard RP English. To make a copy:

Colleague: Is James not present today?

Me: I do not think he is. Shall I check where he is?

Colleague: Yes, if that's possible.

Me: No, I do not think he will be in, but he has not updated his calendar. Shall I give you his phone number?

Colleague: No, I do not need that. I will send him an email instead when I return to my desk.

If Dr Zhao was expecting the wee Linzi to sound more like the second than the first, that may be the problem.

For some people, that's standard, but most people have dialectic or linguistic variants. Linzi's "slurred speech" could be absolutely normal for her area of China - I've seen English kids bewildered at Scottish kids speaking Scots.

I was going to say I understood what you wrote, but then again, I can switch between "California English" (what I learned as a child), "Southern American English" (what I learned when I was a teenager), whatever the o my heck they speak in Utah and, finally, "General American," which I picked up when working on a help desk. Right now I'm listening to Mexican norteño music on the radio. Spanish accents are a totally different thing entirely. :)

As for the adoption, *facepalm*. These people enter into adoptions of children easier than I enter into an adoption of a cat. I waited a year before adopting a new kitty and we've had a bit of an adjustment period (it's been two months). But I'd no sooner give up either cat, because they're both sweet kitties, they're just trying to figure out the pecking order and it's taking longer than I expected.

If I can try to work it out for for two cats, I would surely expect that people adopting a human being would do much better than that!

[dianapavelovna]

Okay, the woman has SIX daughters from China and states that the Taiwanese doctor spoke "Chinese." I really don't want my eyes to bleed and dig back through her blog. So, what were the ages of her other five daughters at homecoming?

I poked through her archives a little, and at least two of the other daughters were infants when they were adopted. Then my eyes started to bleed. :shock:

[BoomerLynn]

I read back through her blog a little and at one point she actually refers to her daughters as eggrolls :doh: .

For those of you who are my age, you will remember the Doris Day movie, "With six you get eggroll." I love Doris Day movies and that has always been one of my favorite. However, I digress...Daddy and I had talked about adding our caboose, and this IS the LAST ONE!! We will have our sixpack of eggrolls!!

(bolding mine) Add that to all the Chinese symbols on the blog and the fact that all of her girls are in martial arts (normally this would not bother me, as I think martial arts is good for kids) and I believe these children are seen more as a novelty than as actual human beings.

[RandomTrivia]

For some people, that's standard, but most people have dialectic or linguistic variants. Linzi's "slurred speech" could be absolutely normal for her area of China - I've seen English kids bewildered at Scottish kids speaking Scots.

We were watching something on the Travel Channel about Scotland a few years back, and the show host was interviewing a fellow who I think was a tour guide at the castle they were featuring. He had an accent, but was speaking perfectly understandable English (overall, at least to us), but the show was doing subtitles for his lines.

And then there's a family story about my dad and my first brother-in-law having a misunderstanding about "far" ("fire") in spark plugs - and b-i-l was only raised a few counties away from Dad.

[lilah]

I am confused, she as adopted several children from China. Why is she so suprised about how internationally adopted children might have special needs, don't automatically speak English and need a lot of time to adjust?

It seems really weird that she's never experienced these issues before. Or maybe she only adopted children as babies so the adjustment difficulties were less pronounced?

[JesusFightClub]

I was going to say I understood what you wrote, but then again, I can switch between "California English" (what I learned as a child), "Southern American English" (what I learned when I was a teenager), whatever the o my heck they speak in Utah and, finally, "General American," which I picked up when working on a help desk. Right now I'm listening to Mexican norteño music on the radio. Spanish accents are a totally different thing entirely. :)

My accent is a horrible crash between Cockney London and rural Scots. It causes pain to the ear of anyone who hears it. I was called out by someone recently for saying "Och, aye, I dae ken [in proper Scots that's "I dinnae ken", dae meaning I do and "dae" as a short form for dinnae sounds different] but what the fuck anyway innit". In Proper English "Well I am not sure about that, but it does not trouble me" :lol:

Language and dialects are absolutely fascinating to me because I am constantly stepping between multiple worlds with them. I would love to hear about your different experiences with English and if you are OK I would like to start a thread on it.

[Sumeri]

JFC - would love to see that thread started. I come from a Scots/English family (Gran from Blairgowrie, dad from Leeds), was born and raised in Chicago and then moved to rural North Dakota - so total clash of accents and dialects in my lifetime. People often can't understand what the hell I'm talking about though it makes perfect sense to me :lol: . I never have a hard time understanding you when you "speak" on here, but my husband, who was raised in small town North Dakota, can barely understand Downton Abbey without translation.

[MarsGirl]

So "disrupt" is an actual term for deciding after the fact that you want to get rid of the child you adopted?

That's crazy.

And sad. :(

What the fuck? These people treat their adoptive children like some people do pets... get rid of them when they are no longer convenient or easy... or if you divorce or move.

Sickening.

[SoybeanQueen]

I would hope that in a case like this it would merit an investigation into the safety and well-being of the other children in the family, and that steps would be taken to prevent the parents from EVER adopting or fostering again.

In general, there's nothing to prevent these parents from adopting again. Sad but true. They can keep adopting until they get a child they want to keep.

i"m an adoptive parent, too. I know full well what it's like to go through that adjustment period. I know what it's like to have unforeseen special needs pop up. I do not understand why adoptive parents think it's OK to throw away their child because of a medical, developmental or psychological problem. If you do any amount of minimal research, you know ahead of time that there are risks. The paperwork isn't always correct. Some problems don't become obvious until later. But that's the same with biological kids. If you don't want to take a risk, don't have kids - period.

It's telling that she started considering disruption the moment autism was mentioned. There are loads of religious adoptive parents who want a kid with just enough special needs that they get the extra "hero" talk, but they don't want to put in the actual work to care for a child with special needs.

[Arete]

This woman is a vile human being. Children are not eggrolls, tattoos, or accessories.

[valsa]

So "disrupt" is an actual term for deciding after the fact that you want to get rid of the child you adopted? ... What the fuck? These people treat their adoptive children like some people do pets

The parallels are even stronger. When disrupting (before finalization) or dissolving (after finalization) an adoption, some people use the phrase "rehome" (as in "we're trying to find another family to rehome Becky with"), which has an identical usage in regards to pets you're trying to find a new place for.

I felt sick to my stomach the first time I saw that word applied to a child, because I'd only seen it used with animals before. I think it sends a pretty clear message of how someone views their adoptive child when they use such dehumanizing language.

[chaotic life]

I always tell potential adoptive parents to prepare for the worse because most of the time you will be overprepared. However, for us getting rid of a child for imperfections has never been an adoption (aka disruption).

Two things I have seen absolutely set off far too many kids in these adoptions. First, they get absolutely married to the age of inernational adoptees and seem incapable of grasping that soemtimes age is nothing more than a sugestion. Second, they get personally offended if needs show up that were not disclosed at the time of the adoption.

There are NO guarantees. Most autistic children are BORN to their parents. It amazes me that some adopters cannot grasp that no family asks to face special needs, especially autism. However, families that give birth to those kids have to simply deal with the hand they are given.

No one told me my son was autistic when we adopted him. That child came from the US fostercare system. They darn well should have KNOWN that fact. However, we were not told, nor was he diagnosed. I was furious NOT because I was somehow duped or got more than I signed up for. I was furious because having spent years in the US fostercare system *someone* should have realized what he had. He should have been getting help and therapy years before he was finally diagnosed a year after he came home to us. If you adopt and your child has autism, then you SHOULD do what any parent whose child has autism does, you educate yourself, mourn and then face the future you are given. It's called parenting!

And yes, I saw that having lived it repeatedly and not merely as an armchair analyst!

[Guest Anonymous]

The parallels are even stronger. When disrupting (before finalization) or dissolving (after finalization) an adoption....

So, please could you educate me? :)

In respect of the blogger in question would the adoption have been finalised before leaving China or is that step be yet to come?

[JesusFightClub]

In general, there's nothing to prevent these parents from adopting again. Sad but true. They can keep adopting until they get a child they want to keep.

i"m an adoptive parent, too. I know full well what it's like to go through that adjustment period. I know what it's like to have unforeseen special needs pop up. I do not understand why adoptive parents think it's OK to throw away their child because of a medical, developmental or psychological problem. If you do any amount of minimal research, you know ahead of time that there are risks. The paperwork isn't always correct. Some problems don't become obvious until later. But that's the same with biological kids. If you don't want to take a risk, don't have kids - period.

It's telling that she started considering disruption the moment autism was mentioned. There are loads of religious adoptive parents who want a kid with just enough special needs that they get the extra "hero" talk, but they don't want to put in the actual work to care for a child with special needs.

Totally agree. You could not, IMO, have put that any better and I thank you.

We didn't adopt Small and we also didn't expect a child with PTSD from her mother's violent death. Another member of my family experiences some difficulties because his mum is a paranoid schizophrenic. My heart was touched by Linzi and I wouldn't care if she was autistic.

I actually discussed with my mum adopting a child when I am more stable in housing etc. Linzi was the trigger for that. It would be a couple of years but although I generally do not love kids I think I could love one kid. I would be able easily to adopt a child at any age who was LD-NOS like I am or had any learning disorders, I would understand.

Their behaviours might be strange but we could work it out together. No big deal. No punishment for a kid who behaves differently either. Difference makes the world.

[valsa]

So, please could you educate me? :)

In respect of the blogger in question would the adoption have been finalised before leaving China or is that step be yet to come?

The adoption would have been finalized before leaving China but most agencies recommend re-adopting the child when you get back home. Usually so the family will have a U.S. birth certificate and adoption papers for the child, since replacing lost or destroyed foreign BC and adopt paperwork can be very expensive or impossible. I think some states used to require re-adoption but I don't know if that's true anymore.

However, even in cases where the adoption is finalized, most people still use the phrase "disruption". Maybe they feel less guilty with a word that implies stopping the process before it finishes, as opposed to acknowledging that, after finalization, the adopted child is legally no difficult than a biological child (when most of these people would never think of getting rid of their biological children, no matter how severe their special needs are)?

[valsa]

I actually discussed with my mum adopting a child when I am more stable in housing etc. Linzi was the trigger for that. It would be a couple of years but although I generally do not love kids I think I could love one kid. I would be able easily to adopt a child at any age who was LD-NOS like I am or had any learning disorders, I would understand.

Their behaviours might be strange but we could work it out together. No big deal. No punishment for a kid who behaves differently either. Difference makes the world.

I know I don't know you irl or anything, so maybe you're completely different than you are here, but I think you'd actually make a really awesome mom to an adopted kid. You have far more intelligence, common sense, and empathy than any of these fundie or fundie-lite families. A non-neurotypical kid could gain a lot from having an adopted mom who has been where they are and understands the struggles they face.

[precious_one]

I just don't understand rehoming a child. I understand the children are adopted but I look at adoption the same as giving birth.

[JesusFightClub]

Valsa, that was so nice to hear! Thank you!

Another thing I was thinking of was something back in the day where I was a helper for a kid with problems. His family background was horrible. The kid was disturbed on multiple levels. He was 13 and he couldn't write coherently in English. Like me, we both went to the room for students with learning difficulties. Mine were different from his but I knew where he was coming from.

I really liked him. He was a troublesome child. If you didn't watch him he would fight the other kids in the class. You had to take him out now and again and say "[Name] you wanna relax a bit". But it was his frustration at his delays at the same time that he was highly intelligent. I told him a lot that he was a clever kid and no problem if he made mistakes. We all do.

His teacher was aggressive towards him and that made him nervous. I tried to be chill towards him and encourage him. I could see so much potential in him. The teachers just saw him as a wee thick ned and a troublemaker. Granted, he could be a complete arse. But there was more.

Sadly, I lost track of him until I learned he was in the jail. That was a sad day for me. I would like to prevent another kid going there, or if they do, make sure, I dunno, I've made a shitload of mistakes, you've made yours, OK I still love you.

A difficult thing to express...

[precious_one]

Patience and understanding would go along way in dealing with kids with behavioral and mental disorders.