Prayer In My Hometown

[debrand]

I grew up in Fayetteville, NC so this interested me. The article is five years old but this is the first time that I'd heard about this. In my defense, I don't live in Fayetteville any longer

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1898663/

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. — Fayetteville and Cumberland County have taken an official stance on prayers by their employees at official functions: Not in Jesus' name.

In May, the attorneys for both Fayetteville and Cumberland County sent out memos to city and county leaders regarding prayers at public meetings. The rules applied to city council meetings, police graduations and memorials.

Fayetteville City Attorney Karen M. McDonald and Cumberland County Attorney Grainger Barrett both asked local-government employees to refrain from "frequent invocation of the name of Jesus."

"Who am I praying to, the wind?" asked Fayetteville Councilman D.J. Haire. "I think it's downright sickening what they want us to do."

Fayetteville residents have also expressed disapproval of the ban.

"There's something wrong with whoever came up with that idea," resident Henry McNeill said.

Attorneys asked for the ban after recent lawsuits, including one in Forsyth County in which three citizens were offended at hearing Jesus' name in prayers at county meetings. Both memos cited a 2004 case in which the 4th U.S.Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that routine invocation of Jesus in the opening prayers of a South Carolina town's council meetings unconstitutionally endorsed one religion.

"Frequent invoking of the name of Jesus (or any other Deity) in opening prayer could lead to a lawsuit under the federal civil rights statute," McDonald wrote, in the memo.

"They're saying you can be free to be who you are as long as it fits into this little box, and I don't think it's right," Fayetteville resident Amber Evans said.

Fayetteville employees told WRAL they are not aware of any complaints about prayer in the city. Mayor Tony Chavonne was out of town and unavailable for comment.

The city has issued several generic prayers approved for public meetings. One reads, "We pray to the One up above."

Haire said he will refuse to read such generically worded prayers.

"I am a child of God first," he said. "I like being an elected official, but I'm not going to manipulate the Word of God to satisfy them."

[debrand]

http://forums.fayobserver.com/cgi-bin/f ... 000346;p=1

Here is a thread for the Fayetteville Observer Forum. Some of the comments are interesting. :roll:

I usually go to Fayetteville a couple times a month to shop. I've made my last trip. Good luck ya'll.

I come down on the "Bible-thumpers" side on this, because there's an implication greater than separation of church and state, IMO.

I figure if I was in, e.g., India and somebody prayed to or mentioned the Hindu God, I would understand and not be offended.

quote:

...Attorneys asked for the ban after recent lawsuits, including one in Forsyth County in which three citizens were offended at hearing Jesus' name in prayers at county meetings. Both memos cited a 2004 case in which the 4th U.S.Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that routine invocation of Jesus....

How could anybody be offended, seriously? This is a nation comprised of mostly Christians, was founded by Christians. What we need, quite simply, is a bit of backbone, just be firm, non- threating when ignoring or saying "No" to these bozos. I believe in free speech. Let "them" gripe all they want, just ignore them. Problem solved.

really like the "We pray to the one above." comment; a truly spineless, but politically correct phrase - it's just another step in tearing down one religion for another. See what political correctness gets ya?

[debrand]

God forbid you show any compassion for nonChristian. This poster is responding to another poster.

quote:

Originally posted by clementine:

What if a Jewish family and/or an Islamic family were attending a council meeting and a Christian opened the meeting with a prayer asking Jesus to bless and help the men and women to make the right decision for all the people. Wouldn't that confuse and make those two families feel out of the blessing?

That's just too bad for them. If they are offended that is THEIR problem. If you go to a Jewish state of Islamic country would YOU feel offended if they left our a christian prayer? I think not. THIS nation was founded by christians. Contrary to the beliefs of some, separation of church and state is NOT found in the Constitution. No one is establishing a religion by uttering a prayer.

quote:

Originally posted by clementine:

Ours is a secular government, voted on by all people and it is their right not to be forced to listen to a religion that is not theirs.

Not hardly, clem. On this you are all wet. No one is being "forsed" to do anything except grow some thicker skin.

quote:

Originally posted by clementine:

In the Christian Bible, Jesus says to render unto Caesar [government] what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. He wasn't claiming government as being His. He said His Kingdom is not of this world.

I hear people invoke Jesus name several times during a conversation, but I shudder.

I pitty you then, if you "shudder" at the name of Jesus. If that is true you will one day do much more than "shudder".

IP: Logged |

more quotes from other posters.

The Navahos were/are Pagans.

Christianty MADE this country great. It will continue to do so unless the christians continue to roll over and take it in the rear as has been done for much too long.

First motherhood and family get pc'ed out, then the schools and education get pc'ed out, now religion of any kind is the target.

There's a pattern there.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I think even if you don't invoke any deity you shouldn't be praying before council meetings. Atheists are people too! And of course they have to be ignorant enough to not know in Hinduism there's more than one God.

[kpmom]

I don't see why there has to be any kind of prayers before public meetings at all. Just open the meeting and get on with it.

[debrand]

I don't see why there has to be any kind of prayers before public meetings at all. Just open the meeting and get on with it.

It seems like a waste of valuable time. All that prayer hasn't helped Fayetteville's crime rates.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nc/fay ... escription

With a crime rate of 68 per one thousand residents, Fayetteville has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 15. Within North Carolina, more than 92% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Fayetteville.

Separately, it is always interesting and important to compare a city's crime rate with those of similarly sized communities - a fair comparison as larger cities tend to have more crime. NeighborhoodScout has done just that. With a population of 200,564, Fayetteville has a combined rate of violent and property crime that is very high compared to other places of similar population size. Regardless of whether Fayetteville does well or poorly compared to all other cities and towns in the US of all sizes, compared to places with a similar population, it fares badly. Few other communities of this size have a crime rate as high as Fayetteville.

[wild little fox]

Okay, I think I messed up and this post did not make it lol

If a Christian does not end a prayer with "In Jesus' name" then Jesus/Jehovah etc, cannot hear it and won't honor it. Also, if the prayer is not directly TO the god of the Bible then it is to another deity, e.g., the devil lol! I do not know if there is actual Bible verses to back any of this up or if it is "just" stinky mind control, polarizing crap. So, by not ending the prayer "In Jesus' name," they are essentially doing something very, very, very bad or in the very least being ineffectual.

Glad i no longer drink the Kool-Aide... SO glad.......

[Arete]

Well I have a newsflash for the good Christians of Fayetteville. Christians pray every day without tacking on an "in Jesus's name" to their prayers. In fact, that business is only done by a small subset of Protestant Christians. Sorry to break the news.

Also, some Christians were taught that you don't bother the Lord unless it's really important. A public meeting does not even come close to qualifying as important. A little less praying and a little more common sense please.

[itsnikki05]

Honestly? Why are they saying the prayer? I don't think it's necessary and takes up time that could be used on issues. *shrug* People can pray on their own time, it does not belong in government. :) (I disagree w/ a lot of people in my church on this..)

[ElphabaGalinda]

Honestly? Why are they saying the prayer? I don't think it's necessary and takes up time that could be used on issues. *shrug* People can pray on their own time, it does not belong in government. :) (I disagree w/ a lot of people in my church on this..)

I agree with the praying on your own time thing. The government is never going to stop you from praying, and they never should. But they should stop anyone from any religion praying before a government meeting. It's a waste of time, and my first thought was no way is that legal. In a lot of situations in the American South it feels like the separation of church and state isn't as much of a thing as it really should be.