David and Priscilla updates

[Coconut Flan]

I think if we had to quit discussing anything that anyone here found offensive, we might possibly need to close down the forum. I find some topics offensive or troublesome, yet trying to force my views on others would be the same thing that I find personally offensive so much of the time with various people trying to either change other peoples' views, shout them down, or argue them into submission.

I see getting upset about discussing Josh's weight the same way. Josh is on TV while the rest of us are not. Taking remarks about Josh personally is an individual thing that I don't think the group has to take responsibility for bringing about. The remarks are about a TV personality and not society at large.

If someone says all morbidly obese people are shiftless, lazy, overeaters who should do better, then to me that is the time to hold people accountable.

[Closed Womb]

I think if we had to quit discussing anything that anyone here found offensive, we might possibly need to close down the forum. I find some topics offensive or troublesome, yet trying to force my views on others would be the same thing that I find personally offensive so much of the time with various people trying to either change other peoples' views, shout them down, or argue them into submission.

I see getting upset about discussing Josh's weight the same way. Josh is on TV while the rest of us are not. Taking remarks about Josh personally is an individual thing that I don't think the group has to take responsibility for bringing about. The remarks are about a TV personality and not society at large.

If someone says all morbidly obese people are shiftless, lazy, overeaters who should do better, then to me that is the time to hold people accountable.

I generally agree with you, except for snarking on physical appearance (not clothing choices; looks, including weight.) I consider it inappropriate to comment on, judge, make assumptions about, validate, invalidate all people -- celebrities, pseudo-celebrities, "commoners" -- based on physical appearance.

But, I am married to someone who, because of a continental health problem, was considered odd/unattractive until his mid 20's, so I know the harm that comes from this; I readily admit I am sensitive to the issue.

FWIW, there are whole threads that I now avoid because of fat shaming. I didn't expect it in the Priscilla and David thread.

[Arete]

Josh and Anna have established that their lifestyle is superior to other lifestyles, and we are supposed to take that statement, ignore the fact they make money from that belief, and not comment on how their lifestyle has impacted their health? That lifestyle tells you to have more children than you can afford to feed, and the natural consequence of having more children you can afford to feed is you wind up feeding them crap and even rationing the crap to stretch your finite dollars. That lifestyle never allows a young person to learn self control and choices, because everything is an order from Daddy or God and you have no choices. So a man who grows up in this lifestyle gets fat because he has developed genuine issues around food and nutrition due to deprivation and unhealthy childhood food, but that is off limits to point out. Anna will go on about grinding her own rice cereal for a baby or boiling some frozen green beans as "healthy" and we are not supposed to comment the woman has no idea how to properly and nutriously feed toddlers or adults. Worse, the they pimp out the lifestyle that brought them to this pass to other home educated illiterates. That is why Josh's weight gain and Anna's homemaking skills should be discussed. Not because one or the other is overweight, but because they pimp the lifestyle that has already brought great harm to their owe lives, and will harm others they manage to suck in.

Josh Duggar doesn't just look overweight, he looks ill. There is a difference. Thanks to the superior lifestyle he follows.

Oh, and I never said fat=lazy, because it doesn't. It just happens that Josh is both fat AND lazy and one did not cause the other. Both were caused by growing up in the Duggar cult.

[Katydid]

:clap:

y'all need to stop being assholes. yeah, Josh and Anna have demonstrated that their diets are not great, but they also both grew up suffering from educational neglect, and at least in Josh's case, likely some malnutrition. If I play armchair psychologist I'd say Josh probably has some form of disordered eating as a result of the poverty and control in his upbringing. Things like depression also frequently effect your appetite, often inducing overeating (or undereating). Lay off, damn it.

Additionally, every single fat shaming post contributes to societal fat hatred, as well as making a whole bunch of people in this community feel like shit about their weight - which in turn can lead to disordered eating, eating disorders and self esteem issues. Many eating disorders start out as diets. It's not helpful either - if feeling shit about yourself made fat people lose weight, there'd be very very few fat people. Do people who feel ashamed of their bodies seem likely to take care of it, to be publicly vulnerable or even harassed while exercising? no.

If you don't think that sizeist bigotry is a thing, or a harmful thing, get your head out of your arse. I'd like to quote Melissa McEwan in the comments of this post http://www.shakesville.com/2011/09/on-f ... onism.html

Besides which, even if I didn't give a shit about the fat shaming, I am fucking sick to death of this topic. Yeah, we ALL know Josh is fat. He knows he's fat, he's even fucking dieting. No, not well, but again EDUCATIONAL NEGLECT. It's likely that as time goes on they'll both learn more about nutrition, which if you're concerned with anyway, try linking him some information or recipes or something, instead of posting here. Jeez. Get some better snark.

Sorry for the wall of text.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Deleted07]

Thing is, you're putting your own issues and spin on this, including your own sensitivity. You're taking something said by someone here in jest and blowing it way out of proportion and attaching it to the real world, and specifically your world, making it hit close to home, when it just was not mean't to be taken that way and certainly wasn't directed at you, or anyone else!

You really have to look at whether its worth being upset by it, because its not going to change and if you have to avoid certain threads, then do it. But really in my honest opinion that isn't what FJ is about. Editing, toning down and putting blinders on stuff because you happened to not like it isn't exactly how we roll. I don't like spiders, the freak me out! But you don't see me getting all upset over spider-burps and her avatar! yknow? (Just using you as an example spiderB ;-) )

For the record I haven't seen anyone saying things like all fat people are stupid, lazy and condescending. No one has said that! To think anyone here actually thinks that, says to me you don't understand us? Again these are your own interpretations of comments made and taking them to an extreme place that wasn't even intended.

All comments are generalizations made, which no one has ever said were FACTS, only ever SNARK and witty banter between us about these generalized assumptions made from what we have seen and know. I really have no idea why you would take the offensive with something so seriously, but again those are your issues.

Those are your views, and I respect that you feel uncomfortable with it, but fact is everyone else doesn't have to suddenly feel bad and stop what they are doing because you think that way and are getting offended about things that aren't even directed at you.

[theologygeek]

$600 is quite expensive. Must have been a really fancy hotel.

I hated it. It was dumpy. But someone else in the group wanted to go, so I went with the flow. Put me in a Marriott bed and I am happy.

[Ex 2x2]

Am I missing the discussion on the pecans?? David and Priscilla STOLE pecans, had the police called on them, got screamed at by the land owner, and have a pic up of them with the stolen pecans in their Bible bag. And David's response was, "WHY God did you let this happen?" Umm, David, YOU stole them. Not God. Duh!

eta: To be fair, David did offer the guy $100, which the guy refused, saying it was dirty money. David also went on and on to the man about how he is born again and so ashamed and blah blah blah. Had I been the man, that would've made me angrier. And there's a very babyish part about Priscilla who was crying, and the officer asked her how far along she was, and she held up 5 fingers.

[lilith]

This is a snark board. It's generally accepted that we snark on adults who have chosen to put themselves in the public eye in some manner, be it reality tv, blogging, ministries or whatever.

Many, many people would find the fact that we snark on someone's religious beliefs highly offensive.

Many people would find our jokes about recreational abortions offensive.

And some find snark on weight offensive. They have every right to vocalise their offence, but I really don't see snarking on Josh's weight as unacceptable on a forum like this. I don't do it cause I don't find it interesting, but those who do have every right to mention it. The fact that it's a sore point for some on FJ shouldn't mean that it can't be discussed without a flurry of hand slapping.

There has been a tendency lately by some towards homogenising the opinions expressed on this board and to shaming those who don't conform. I think that takes a lot away from the quality of discourse here.

It would be a real pity if FJ turned into the joked about hive mind, with everyone tiptoeing around patting each other on the back for having the "right" opinions and muttering shibboleths. Diverse views and the freedom of posters to express them are what make this forum interesting. Please don't let's stifle each other.

[Deleted07]

Am I missing the discussion on the pecans?? David and Priscilla STOLE pecans, had the police called on them, got screamed at by the land owner, and have a pic up of them with the stolen pecans in their Bible bag. And David's response was, "WHY God did you let this happen?" Umm, David, YOU stole them. Not God. Duh!

eta: To be fair, David did offer the guy $100, which the guy refused, saying it was dirty money. David also went on and on to the man about how he is born again and so ashamed and blah blah blah. Had I been the man, that would've made me angrier. And there's a very babyish part about Priscilla who was crying, and the officer asked her how far along she was, and she held up 5 fingers.

OH I only just saw this!!!

davidlovespriscilla.com/2012/12/04/the-pecan-story/

For what seemed like an eternity he yelled questions at us such as, “What did you think you were doing? Who gave you permission to be out here? It’s one thing for those black folks to be out here at night, but you decent white folk are out here stealing in broad daylight!!! I bet you got a Bible in your car back there too! Don’t you realize that is like stealing money out of my wallet?â€

WHAT THE MOTHER OF EARTH??? Who talks like this? I am calling BULLSHIT on the farmer dude saying this!!!!!!! :shock:

[meda]

WTF with the pecans? And that farmer? So If they had been black they would have been shot? The two of them are idiots, but did the farmer and the cops not have anything better to do than yell at the earnest white boy and his pregnant wife? My head hurts after reading that. So much wrong on so many levels.

[Ex 2x2]

Exotic,

That line about black people struck me as false too. The farmer does sound crazy, but I'm guessing when that is how you make your living, you get sick and tired of people thinking it's ok to help themselves. What a WEIRD story. Of course he is a very bad story-teller anyway. Some of the things he leaves out leave you confused, and some of the details he includes add nothing to the story!

[Deleted07]

I'm actually kind of surprised that they didn't spin the story into a "Christian persekushin!" story.... Maybe next weeks followup...

Honestly, it stinks of Christian self entitlement that he thought he could traipse around someones property and take so many nuts in such a HUGE bag for nothing!

But admittedly the Farmer did seem to over-react and the police being all right there and over-reactionary seemed silly. Where was this? In the back of bumfuck hicksville? LOL Why not call the friends they were with to help their situation?

I find it hard to believe that someone would just wait around sheepishly and wait their turn to speak while what? 3 cops give them a talking to, and the farmer spews profanities and threatens gunfire! Nor would I expect the police to be OK with that Farmer talking and acting like that either!!! ... So bizarre!!!

I kinda want to know why the farmer wanted a photo of them on his flip phone? LOL This is some Weird shit, sounds so far-fetched!

[Sprocket]

Someone needs to remind David and Priscilla 'thou shalt not steal.' :roll:

They come off as poor examples of Christians with this story.

[Ex 2x2]

The photo thing was weird. I guess he wanted it to shame them, maybe? I don't get David's creepy smile in the picture. He looks proud. The whole thing is so weird. Why did it take so many police officers to handle it? And did he actually describe one of them as a large, african american jolly fellow? Why was his race impt??

Eta: Apparently there's more to the story to come. Oh the suspense! If the rest of the story is that the man "got saved," I'm calling BS.

[Ex 2x2]

Oh goodness, did anyone read their Halloween blog entry? They are so dang patronizing. They held up candy to the trick or treaters and said, "This is for you to eat." Then they held up a tract and said, "This is not for you to eat." Supposedly, the kids came back begging for more tracts. Yeah, right.

[wendy-sparkles]

This is a snark board. It's generally accepted that we snark on adults who have chosen to put themselves in the public eye in some manner, be it reality tv, blogging, ministries or whatever.

Many, many people would find the fact that we snark on someone's religious beliefs highly offensive.

Many people would find our jokes about recreational abortions offensive.

And some find snark on weight offensive. They have every right to vocalise their offence, but I really don't see snarking on Josh's weight as unacceptable on a forum like this. I don't do it cause I don't find it interesting, but those who do have every right to mention it. The fact that it's a sore point for some on FJ shouldn't mean that it can't be discussed without a flurry of hand slapping.

There has been a tendency lately by some towards homogenising the opinions expressed on this board and to shaming those who don't conform. I think that takes a lot away from the quality of discourse here.

It would be a real pity if FJ turned into the joked about hive mind, with everyone tiptoeing around patting each other on the back for having the "right" opinions and muttering shibboleths. Diverse views and the freedom of posters to express them are what make this forum interesting. Please don't let's stifle each other.

I mean, I'm not trying to censor anybody. You can say "lol, Josh is so fat" all you want, but I reserve my right to call you an asshole for doing so. With that being said, while this forum is by no means homogenous, I think there are some things that are generally (and rightly) considered poor form - such as speculating on the sexuality of the Duggar kids, or snarking on their bodies; blatant sexism, homophobia, racism etc. I don't want to start some sort of oppression olympics, but would you be responding to people upset about sexist comments with ~free speech~? My guess is no

[singsingsing]

I can believe that the farmer reacted like that. I can believe that the police did what they did. The reason why (in David's opinion) the race of the police officer was important was because the farmer was clearly a racist. What I can't understand is the farmer wanting to take a picture of them on his phone? Totally bizarre.

Otherwise, this story is a great example of the fake humility displayed by fundamentalists. David and Priscilla could have simply apologized, said they were wrong, and promised to make amends. Instead, David had to make sure that everyone knew that he was a Christian - but not just any Christian! A super special awesome Christian with a GREAT relationship with God.

[Sprocket]

I mean, I'm not trying to censor anybody. You can say "lol, Josh is so fat" all you want, but I reserve my right to call you an asshole for doing so. With that being said, while this forum is by no means homogenous, I think there are some things that are generally (and rightly) considered poor form - such as speculating on the sexuality of the Duggar kids, or snarking on their bodies; blatant sexism, homophobia, racism etc. I don't want to start some sort of oppression olympics, but would you be responding to people upset about sexist comments with ~free speech~? My guess is no

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12823&start=880

Here you go, dear. Tis the season of FJ Festivus Airing of Grievances after all. Feel free to name call and jump up and down whilst throwing your tantrums all over that thread. Hell, that's what it's there for.

Meanwhile, can we please talk about David and Priscilla effing STEALING and TRESPASSING? 'Cause omg, they admitted to stealing and trespassing. Although I'm sure their moral failings will have some imagined greater good. I can't wait for David and Priscilla to sit their son down and show them the picture of how they could have gone to jail for breaking the law while he was gestating. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

For the record, as far as assholes go, mine is pretty nice and surprisingly not as gross as one would think an asshole should be. :whistle:

[wendy-sparkles]

http://freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... &start=880

Here you go, dear. Tis the season of FJ Festivus Airing of Grievances after all. Feel free to name call and jump up and down whilst throwing your tantrums all over that thread. Hell, that's what it's there for.

Meanwhile, can we please talk about David and Priscilla effing STEALING and TRESPASSING? 'Cause omg, they admitted to stealing and trespassing. Although I'm sure their moral failings will have some imagined greater good. I can't wait for David and Priscilla to sit their son down and show them the picture of how they could have gone to jail for breaking the law while he was gestating. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

For the record, as far as assholes go, mine is pretty nice and surprisingly not as gross as one would think an asshole should be. :whistle:

wow thanks so much! if I would created a thread just for bigots would you be interested in limiting all the fat snark to that thread???? Nice dan savage icon

[ILoveJellybeans]

Oh goodness, did anyone read their Halloween blog entry? They are so dang patronizing. They held up candy to the trick or treaters and said, "This is for you to eat." Then they held up a tract and said, "This is not for you to eat." Supposedly, the kids came back begging for more tracts. Yeah, right.

They were probably the future generation of FreeJinger, wanting something to snark on.

Or they couldnt actually read/didnt read it, and just thought it was a funny comic strip.

[Sprocket]

wow thanks so much! if I would created a thread just for bigots would you be interested in limiting all the fat snark to that thread???? Nice dan savage icon

Well if you want to create a thread for bigots to post in, we have our fair share here. Genibelle, SheWhoLaughs, Jeri-he-who-shall-not-be-named-cho.... the list goes on. I have a nice box of OR tender white popcorn in my pantry and would find their idocy entertaining, only because of their generilzed bigotry and their generalized assumptions based on small minded information. Point me in a direction of anyone who has said all overweight people are lazy and worthless and I'll be the first to agree with you that it's wrong. As Arejeto has tirelessly pointed out, Josh and Anna get paid to put their lifestyle out for public consumtion as the one and only way to live your life. That lifestyle is damaging simply because Anna may not have the freedom to cook healthier foods for herself, her husband, or her children simply because Josh may or may not have food issues (I vote that he does, which is why I personally refrain from calling him names but don't belittle those who do by, uh, calling them names.) But it can and should be pointed out that Josh is up at the wee hours of the night eating a transfat loaded pizza because, well, he doesn't have to get up in the morning and go to work or get up with small children (cause that's wimmen's work, y'all.)

Participate, don't participate, but the hand-slapping is old and it's been done ad nauseum.

P.S. Don't forget to google Santorum.

[wendy-sparkles]

Well if you want to create a thread for bigots to post in, we have our fair share here. Genibelle, SheWhoLaughs, Jeri-he-who-shall-not-be-named-cho.... the list goes on. I have a nice box of OR tender white popcorn in my pantry and would find their idiocy entertaining, only because of their generilzed bigotry and their generalized assumptions based on small minded information. Point me in a direction of anyone who has said all overweight people are lazy and worthless and I'll be the first to agree with you that it's wrong. As Arejeto has tirelessly pointed out, Josh and Anna get paid to put their lifestyle out for public consumtion as the one and only way to live your life. That lifestyle is damaging simply because Anna may not have the freedom to cook healthier foods for herself, her husband, or her children simply because Josh may or may not have food issues (I vote that he does, which is why I personally refrain from calling him names but don't belittle those who do by, uh, calling them names.) But it can and should be pointed out that Josh is up at the wee hours of the night eating a transfat loaded pizza because, well, he doesn't have to get up in the morning and go to work or get up with small children (cause that's wimmen's work, y'all.)

Participate, don't participate, but the hand-slapping is old and it's been done ad nauseum.

P.S. Don't forget to google Santorum.

didn't go through the whole thread again, but

People like him exacerbate the problems overweight people have. When I go in with my food and exercise logs....they lump me in with the Joshes of the world who claim to be making healthy choices but are, in fact, being delusional or outright lying to themselves. I can thank the other fat folks who are truly lazy and who only pretend to make good choices and then promote that fact as the reason the rest of us have to fight even harder for acceptance and for getting the help we need.

Edited

and as you well know, there are countless more examples all over the Josh threads on this board. The dialogue over him and Anna is largely not about the damaging effects of the fundie lifestyle. It is about making fun of him for being fat, or, in the case of this thread, being nasty about Anna's body (she's not even in plus sizes, wtf) because her sister is thinner than her.

[SunnyAndrsn]

y'all need to stop being assholes. yeah, Josh and Anna have demonstrated that their diets are not great, but they also both grew up suffering from educational neglect, and at least in Josh's case, likely some malnutrition. If I play armchair psychologist I'd say Josh probably has some form of disordered eating as a result of the poverty and control in his upbringing. Things like depression also frequently effect your appetite, often inducing overeating (or undereating). Lay off, damn it.

Additionally, every single fat shaming post contributes to societal fat hatred, as well as making a whole bunch of people in this community feel like shit about their weight - which in turn can lead to disordered eating, eating disorders and self esteem issues. Many eating disorders start out as diets. It's not helpful either - if feeling shit about yourself made fat people lose weight, there'd be very very few fat people. Do people who feel ashamed of their bodies seem likely to take care of it, to be publicly vulnerable or even harassed while exercising? no.

If you don't think that sizeist bigotry is a thing, or a harmful thing, get your head out of your arse. I'd like to quote Melissa McEwan in the comments of this post http://www.shakesville.com/2011/09/on-f ... onism.html

Besides which, even if I didn't give a shit about the fat shaming, I am fucking sick to death of this topic. Yeah, we ALL know Josh is fat. He knows he's fat, he's even fucking dieting. No, not well, but again EDUCATIONAL NEGLECT. It's likely that as time goes on they'll both learn more about nutrition, which if you're concerned with anyway, try linking him some information or recipes or something, instead of posting here. Jeez. Get some better snark.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Regarding the highlighted comment, it truly IS very, very difficult to treat bariatric patients. It's not a lack of wanting or trying to treat them, but unless a provider specializes in treating bariatric patients, the fat literally does get in the way and hides a lot of issues.

I have a very difficult time finding veins on obese patients when I start IVs. I truly just have to go for the anatomy--I know where the veins are supposed to be, but I can't feel them because of the patient's fat. This is not true in all cases, but it DOES happen. Is that fat hatred? No, it's a fact that obese patients present unique challenges in treating them.

Having the proper equipment makes a world of difference in treating these patients, but it's still extremely challenging. I'm 5' tall and I have trouble with some types of wound care because I have to keep moving back and forth from one side of the bed to the other. My co-workers and I have hurt our back simply helping lift legs to do wound care. It's a fact that patients die from complications of obesity, and sometimes one of the complications is that a diagnosis is wrong because the patient's adipose tissue disguised the real problem.

If you don't have the equipment big enough for a pt. to fit into, then what? What if the patient is too big to tolerate travel to another facility where there is equipment designed to accommodate larger bodies?

Recently a patient over 550 pounds had orders to work with the dietitian, psychology, the diabetic educator, wound care, and rehab. She had presented with "leg pain". She couldn't see the area on her legs that was causing her trouble, but had severe cellulitis, peripheral vascular disease, a diabetic ulcer, and lymphedema. Her diabetes was out of control. Her cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood pressure were out of control. She thought we were being cruel with an 1800 calorie, carb counted, low cholesterol, low salt, low fat diet. However, her choices were literally killing her. It's not about fat shaming, it was about providing care and resources for her to improve her health. She refused to see the dietitian more than once, had her daughter bringing in additional food, and refused to talk to a psychologist. The diabetic educator got no where.

I recently had a fax from the rehab center requesting an order to liberalize her diet since she wasn't following the prescribed diet. Same fax had updates for out of control blood sugars--400+. She'll likely end up in patient with diabetic ketoacidosis at this rate.

Health care providers get extremely frustrated with patients of all shapes and sizes who want us to fix them, despite all of their own efforts to the contrary. In regards to morbidly obese patients, we often risk hurting ourselves to try and help these patients physically. It gets very, very frustrating very, very quickly.

My apologies for the rant, but I don't see how commenting on J & A's poor choices counts as fat shaming. Josh proudly shared his poor choices all over his IG page for months now. Anna gets a pass from me for the most part, since she's been pregnant or nursing for the last few years. They are both adults who can learn better and have been advised by multiple sources (here, on his IG, etc) to eat better. Anna's made an effort to make baby food from scratch, showing at least a passing interest in nutrition so the excuse that they don't know or were not taught better doesn't fly with me either.

Finally, the have no trouble judging everyone else, I say that makes them fair game.

[Deleted07]

I mean, I'm not trying to censor anybody. You can say "lol, Josh is so fat" all you want, but I reserve my right to call you an asshole for doing so. With that being said, while this forum is by no means homogenous, I think there are some things that are generally (and rightly) considered poor form - such as speculating on the sexuality of the Duggar kids, or snarking on their bodies; blatant sexism, homophobia, racism etc. I don't want to start some sort of oppression olympics, but would you be responding to people upset about sexist comments with ~free speech~? My guess is no

Well I reserve my right to call you a misguided butthurt. :roll: Happy now we got that out of your system?

Comparing our snark on Josh and his #healthychoices is nothing like that of sexist remarks. But whatever floats your goat.

Fact; Josh is fat! Fact; Josh is looking sickly, shiny and aged! Fact; He's a lazy pompous ass.

If you want to take offense to these things, again I must repeat, these reflect more on you and your own misdirection of the opinions here and your own insecurities as a person, taking this much too seriously and personally.

You deal with your damage by handslapping, and we'll just continue with some witty banter that doesn't hurt anyone, OK? ;)

[CynicMom]

Same. I'm Hypo after I131 radiation. I take B12 as well as C. I take a buttload of vitamins, but those two were the ones recommended by my Doc.

I second the B12 and recommend it in shot form (prescribed). It's very cheap and the effect is more pronounced. Learning to use a syringe on yourself is not as hard as you'd think. You also may want to look into some Folic Acid and other B-complex vitamins. Also Vitamin D.