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Judge ye not Lori, for she's just telling it like it is


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http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/11/paying-off-your-debt.html

Wow! Did I get it for my post Christians Declaring Bankruptcy. I couldn't even publish all the comments because I got tired of being accused of being judgmental and making cruel statements

Being called judgmental when all I do is teach God's Word as I see is wrong. We are called to rebuke, admonish, and encourage each other. We are not to judge each other in what they eat or the days they celebrate or those outside the church body, according to Scripture, but we are absolutely called to admonish those who call themselves Christians.

See? You're not supposed to judge her when she's judging others! She's just admonishing!

From the peanut gallery:

I keep getting stuck with other peoples bills that they just don't want to pay and I'm getting sick of it. We as Christians need to step up and actually act like Christians in every area of our lives including our finances. Do not use it (utilities, tv, phone, ect), do not buy it (toys, clothes, furniture, ect) if you have no plans on paying back the cost of those items. Our government has created a who cares attitude in allowing bankruptcy for anything, in allowing divorce for any reason and allowing just about anyone to be on government aid even if they don't need it. I'm saddened by all this.

I am wondering if that one is from her daughter.

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Jeeze Lori, would it hurt you to show an ounce of compassion?

Most folks don't like having to file for a BK but sometimes it's got to be done. Most of the people I've known who have had to file were ashamed and afraid to admit that they had to file a BK. Out of the people I've known who have filed only one was happy about it because she considered it a "get out of jail free" card.

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Oh, yeah....don't you remember Jesus saying in The Sermon on the Mount:

"Yay, verily I say unto you to go forth, and greatly rebuke and admonish thine brethren, for the self-righteous shall surely inherit the earth."

*rolls eyes*

I actually I recall rather something about being really careful about casting stones and being a Judgey McJudgerson who judges.

Edited for riffles.

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My biblical memory's a little fuzzy, but weren't debts supposed to be forgiven if they weren't paid off after 7 years?

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My biblical memory's a little fuzzy, but weren't debts supposed to be forgiven if they weren't paid off after 7 years?

40 years I think. The Jubilee year was when debts were all forgiven.

That's why most mortgages are 30 years! [/tongue in cheek]

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Supposed to be, but there is no evidence that jubilee was ever put into practice.

IIRC another major part of jubilee was that you couldn't actually permanently buy land. Theoretically, every bit of land in Israel had a traditional owner, traceable back to the days of Joshua. You could "sell" your land for any price you liked, but at the end of a set period you could repossess it. Basically it was a lease.

Considering that most of the Prophets specifically ranted against oppressing the economically powerless and taking their homes and what little they had . . . yeah, probably this part of Scripture got lip service.

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Jeeze Lori, would it hurt you to show an ounce of compassion?

Most folks don't like having to file for a BK but sometimes it's got to be done. Most of the people I've known who have had to file were ashamed and afraid to admit that they had to file a BK. Out of the people I've known who have filed only one was happy about it because she considered it a "get out of jail free" card.

I have also known people who don't like filing for a bankruptcy and a couple of them ended in those situations partially because of medical debts. I read Lori's post on Christians filing for bankruptcy and her spiel was basically that people constantly charged to credit cards and they end up in debt and end filing for bk. Yes, people like that exist, but not every person who has credit cards uses them frequently.

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I think the debt-free movement was a reaction to the pervasive consumerism and rampant credit card usage in society. Families who go bankrupt are seen as the worse perpetrators. However, as we all know, plenty of people go into debt for things like medical expenses, job loss, illness. People who rack up a ton in credit card bills do exist. Irresponsible spending is everywhere. However, many of those people do not end up in bankruptcy court. I think it's time fundies realize that people don't typically spend their way through Saks 5th Ave to bankruptcy. They are usually people who had a serious illness, lost their job, lost their medical insurance. You know, the people that Christ said to love and help as good Christians.

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In my case I have stupid debt and it's because I couldn't pay my council tax and I had Mohammed from the debt collection agency on to me every single day (who was a sarcastic bastard, cheers mate) threatening me with court action. So in order to pay the debt I took out a loan with a massive APR because I'm a bit dyslexic with numbers and didn't realise what I was signing up for. I thought "Hey, this is a great deal!". I looked at the small print and because I literally count on my fingers and struggle with addition, never mind multiplication, I thought "This sounds fantastic!" They saw a sucker coming and I was caught and landed.

Debt can happen to anyone anywhere for all kinds of reasons.

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The majority of Americans who face bankruptcy do so for medical debt, something completely foriegn to the rest of the developed world that bothers to provide health coverage to their citizens.

The so-called Christian thing is forgiveness of debts and yes even Jubilee. The debtor's prison concept is a Capitalist concept NOT a godly concept. However, most fundie Americans already confuse capitalism with Christianity so I'm not surprised Lori gets them confused and condemns people for not being good enough Capitalists. If she would get behind full medical coverage for all Americans, she would see the majority of bankruptcies completely cease to exist.

I'm willing to bet she would be a totally hypocrite though. We had sufficient medical debt in this year that it threatened to head us towards bankruptcy. Rather than opt for that, I went back to work for the first time in 15 years. Betcha I'm just as awful for no longer being in the home full-time as I would be for filing bankruptcy.

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Based on some of her previous comments, regarding health care, Lori probably wouldn't have compassion for a person who had to file bk due to medical debt. Lori's bankruptcy posting and the follow up reminded me of a thread on the TLC/Discovery forums a few years back. A guy posted that he was annoyed with the Duggars are always bragging about being debt free. This guy said he had debts due to health issues and a couple of small student loans. He said that he hated how the Duggars constantly implied that all people with debt have debt to due to shopping addictions etc. That has also bugged me. Boob and Mullet started out their married life in a different time and in a state with a low cost of living. I hate when Duggar leg humpers say that anyone can be like the Duggars.

From Lori's comment section.

Angela · 1 day ago

I'm an Australian and although our financial situation isn't as bad as America I'm still watching people around me go into crazy amount of debt. As christians I wonder what we are doing to prevent other people falling into debt. Poor financial education is I believe one of the causes of people going into debt. Society has developed an acceptance that debt is good, you must have a good credit card score and you should buy the next latest gadget to fit in.

I think that churches and the community needs to step in and offer financial counselling and advice to educate people and hopefully prevent the need for bankruptcy to be declared in the first place. I also think we need to work to promote a simpler way of life without the crazy consumerism I'm a big fan of Dave Ramsay and his programs to provide financial education.

Some churches do provide financial counseling and some promote Jim Sammons or Dave Ramsey stuff. When I read this comment, I thought about a megachurch in Indiana that promotes Dave Ramsey books, seminars etc, but that church still has a lot of debt. I know someone who attended that church when he lived in Indiana. He gave me a link to that church's site. I looked through it and they have a large staff of full time and part time employees and my friend said that some of those positions aren't needed. He also said one of the jobs was basically created for the son of the one of the ministers. My friend got turned off by that megachurch for different reasons, but he kept attending because of his family.

I think some debt is good if it is related to education and home ownership. People have to their best to be responsible in those situations. One crazy college debt incident was the Courtney Munna story. Courtney attended NYU and close to $100,000 in student loan debt. Her father died when she was a child or teen and her mom wasn't able to help her out that much. New York Times did a story on her and I had a hard time sympathizing with her because she choose to attend a very expensive private college knowing that her family wouldn't be able to afford it and that she would have take out huge loans.

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Some churches do provide financial counseling and some promote Jim Sammons or Dave Ramsey stuff. When I read this comment, I thought about a megachurch in Indiana that promotes Dave Ramsey books, seminars etc, but that church still has a lot of debt. I know someone who attended that church when he lived in Indiana. He gave me a link to that church's site. I looked through it and they have a large staff of full time and part time employees and my friend said that some of those positions aren't needed. He also said one of the jobs was basically created for the son of the one of the ministers. My friend got turned off by that megachurch for different reasons, but he kept attending because of his family.

Dave Ramsey may have good financial advice, but he will also shill for just about anyone. I came across an ad for one of those $ELL YOUR GOLD FOR CA$$$$H! places in the local paper and it had an endorsement from Dave Ramsey.

Rumor has it that Ramsey's recently-built (2011ish) 13,000 square foot house has 18 shower heads in it. Excessive a bit much, Dave? I guess hawking financial peace to churches is rather lucrative.

http://www.stuffchristianculturelikes.c ... amsey.html

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Dave Ramsey may have good financial advice, but he will also shill for just about anyone. I came across an ad for one of those $ELL YOUR GOLD FOR CA$$$$H! places in the local paper and it had an endorsement from Dave Ramsey.

Rumor has it that Ramsey's recently-built (2011ish) 13,000 square foot house has 18 shower heads in it. Excessive a bit much, Dave? I guess hawking financial peace to churches is rather lucrative.

http://www.stuffchristianculturelikes.c ... amsey.html

Why does anyone need a house that big? Not even the Duggar house is that huge, and theyve got 19 kids.

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Funny how she is called to rebuke others but no one is allowed to rebuke her.

"Pay attention when other Christians rebuke you, for them might be onto something" should have been included in the Bible.

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"Pay attention when other Christians rebuke you, for them might be onto something" should have been included in the Bible.

That beautiful irony.

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Usually when someone puffs out their chest and.goes on about "telling it like it is," while saying extremely stupid, hurtful, and downright ignorant things, it's a sign they have a very over inflated ego and nothing you do will shut them up.

Ladies and the occasional FJ gentleman, this is why I gave up on conservative churches years ago, and why i hate Lori personally.

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Wow! Did I get it for my post Christians Declaring Bankruptcy. I couldn't even publish all the comments because I got tired of being accused of being judgmental and making cruel statements

Is she so daft as to wonder if maybe so many readers are calling her out, maybe there's some truth to it? Think about it, if you have say 10 people who know you and 8 out of 10 think you are being a judgmental prick, you might just be acting like a judgmental prick.

I'm gonna quote Lori some Bible since she wants to follow the book so much:

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. ~Matthew 7:1-5

And to quote the Bible regarding debts and the government...

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. ~Romans 13:1-6

From the things I've read, Lori was raised in priviledge and married into priviledge. She doesn't work and everything she gets is from her husband. He is her welfare.* She lives in one of the most expensive areas in the US, has a nice house and vehicles and she dares down on people for being less priviledged. I think if the Jesus of the Bible was real and met her today, she'd be rebuked harshly for her behavior and attitude.

Lori, you need your parents and husband's money cut from you and then see what happens and how well you handle it. Go visit a third world country and see how people live. Or better yet, come east to West Virginia. I'll show you places that will make you think I've taken you to a third world country. Where people still have outhouses, no running water or hot water unless it's heated by fire, wood burning stoves, no shoes or coats unless donated, and had been forced to drop out of high school to take care of their families.

So get your priviledged head out of your ass and get over your self, you self-righteous twit. You aren't "telling it like it is", you're showing your class priviledge and as Jesus stated:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God"~Mark 10:25

Lori wanted the Bible quoted, I gave her the Bible.

Oh and two little Bible stories that are my favorite and they both are suppposed to be the words of Jesus himself.

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.â€~Luke 18:9-14

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’â€

“You have answered correctly,†Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.â€

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?â€

In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?â€

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.â€

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.†~Luke 10:27-37

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  • 2 weeks later...

From today's posting

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-year-of-jubilee.html

We are called to lend our money freely and generously but no where can I find that God allows believers to declare bankruptcy and not pay back their debt. Some have questioned high, unexpected medical bills. My suggestion is to take God at His Word, obey Him, and see how He will provide. He is much bigger than medical bills!

We must never underestimate God's ability to provide for us when we are walking in obedience to Him. He is a kind and generous God who promises to come to the aid of His people. Trust and obey Him.

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I wonder if she understands that not everyone who goes through bankruptcy gets all their debt erased. People who file Chapter 13 do pay it back, the payments are just more reasonable.

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