Judge Sentences Teen Offender to Church

[valsa]

My assumption is that he started going while out on bond or something of the sort. I'm not aware of any caselaw that prohibits a court enforcing an attendance provision where the defendant chose the religious institution. The choice of the institution was not a state action. Of course, I have no leg to stand on without seeing the actual sentence sheet and the provisions for modification. Whenever I have sentenced a defendant to a program or action that had a religious implication I always include very clear steps for modification.

No, he appears to have already been going to the church before the incident. And while the law may not prohibit allowing a defendant to choose a religious intitution, if that is an option, I still don't think allowing him to just attend the church he was already attending is very affective. He's doing the same thing now as he was when he was drinking and driving, so they might as have have not given him the sentence anyway.

[Guest Anonymous]

From the previous thread where CC3 was letting her bigotry hang out:

Oh you silly goose, I never miss an election. We have never had a vote on same sex marriage in my state and I don't know of any bills in state congress at this time. I would campaign against it if it comes up in the future. :)

No. I am not interested in advocating for Biblical divorce laws. In fact, the thought has never even crossed my mind. I agree with you - abuse is not written in the Bible as a reason to divorce. :) You have found my hypocrisy.

It's not enough that she's a bigot, she's positively gleeful about it. Super Christ-like! Jesus always gloated as he discriminated against minorities and those that society looked down upon. She's totally okay with the straighties getting divorced and remarried though! As if it wasn't already obvious that her real issue is icky gay people and not following the Bible.

Reading over that thread gave me a case of the shuddering horrors. I don't get being so hateful and so happy about it.

[Black Aliss]

Actually you can choose any holy or secular book to be sworn in under... at least in any court case I have witnessed/been a part of (and sadly that's more than I care to remember.. wow). the Partner swore in under a Darwin book the last time we went to court. Here you just have to let the court officials know before the court date and they'll try their best to accommodate you. I typically swear in under just a book.. it doesn't have any pages I don't think... it just straight up looks like a generic book you'd pull from the bookshelves. I'd be interested if other courts do this as well... I can't think KY would be THAT progressive when other places aren't.

I've given sworn testimony many times and a bible was never part of the ritual. Just "raise your right hand and repeat after me. . ." Maybe it's customary for being sworn in to office, but I remember some years ago a Muslim Minnesota congressman being sworn in using the Koran from Thomas Jefferson's personal library.

[mockingbird]

Reading over that thread gave me a case of the shuddering horrors. I don't get being so hateful and so happy about it.

That's because she's not hateful! Didn't you read her post here stating that very fact? If she says it, it must be true! :evil:

[Koala]

:angry-steamingears: <---- that was my head exploding. Wish I had never stumbled into this thread. So many things wrong here....

[formergothardite]

From the previous thread where CC3 was letting her bigotry hang out:

It's not enough that she's a bigot, she's positively gleeful about it. Super Christ-like! Jesus always gloated as he discriminated against minorities and those that society looked down upon. She's totally okay with the straighties getting divorced and remarried though! As if it wasn't already obvious that her real issue is icky gay people and not following the Bible.

Reading over that thread gave me a case of the shuddering horrors. I don't get being so hateful and so happy about it.

Yeah, when it came down to it, she doesn't want to stop gay people from getting married because of her religion, she wants to stop them from getting married because she just doesn't like them.

Reading through that thread someone brought up that CC3's own mother had been married multiple times and she kind of went all crazy saying her mother did nothing wrong.

So, her beliefs on gay marriage have absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. And I'll be shocked if she comes back to this thread. I think she will lay low till she thinks people will have forgotten about it.

[Artemis]

I have no intention of forgetting about it.

I was planning on sending her a PM, asking her when she intended to return, since she said she would, but you know what? Her profile does not appear to have a PM button. (How does that happen?)

Is there any possibility that a courteous mod could forward the following brief message?

Dear CC3,

I await your return with interest and look forward to debating the issue we discussed earlier.

What would you say to someone who discussed gay marriage with you?

Who are you, that you dare to speak for God?

Is it impossible that you might be wrong?

Yours sincerely,

Artemis.

You know I have had it up to here with the 'gay marriage is evil' brigade.

I am really quite angry.

[TyleredOne]

As a teen I attended weekly youth group meetings at our church. My mother sent me so I could make some God loving do-no-wrong friends.I believe that some of the more colorful kids there had been court ordered to attend. I could go to school all week and never once sit beside a drug dealer, the same wasn't true for church. If Mom had only known.

[nokidsmom]

It's kind of refreshing to see someone admit attending church is a punishment. :lol:

Yeah, I thought the same. It's rather telling isn't it?

[Artemis]

Still waiting - yawn.

[Koala]

Still waiting - yawn.

She's probably in church praying for God to send us straight to hell save us.

[Artemis]

Hmmmm...

How does she know I'm not already saved? How does she know she's saved? For all she knows I might be saved and she might not be. Her heart may be telling her she's saved but 'the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.'

Anyway, I'm a very patient person. I can wait until the next time she arrives. However long it takes, I will be here, asking her how she knows she speaks for God, and whether it is impossible for her to be wrong.

[B5SnowDog]

Yeah, I thought the same. It's rather telling isn't it?

That it is.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hmmmm...

How does she know I'm not already saved? How does she know she's saved? For all she knows I might be saved and she might not be. Her heart may be telling her she's saved but 'the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.'

Anyway, I'm a very patient person. I can wait until the next time she arrives. However long it takes, I will be here, asking her how she knows she speaks for God, and whether it is impossible for her to be wrong.

That's a good thing. I asked her several pointed questions (repeatedly) back in March. They remain unanswered.

[Artemis]

Lissar, how come she has no PM button? I'm just curious as I didn't know you could opt out?

[Guest Anonymous]

Lissar, how come she has no PM button? I'm just curious as I didn't know you could opt out?

You can opt out by going to the User Control Panel and then selecting Board Preferences.

[formergothardite]

Last time she ran from a thread it was about six months till she popped back up posting again, so look for her in six months. That's what she means by "I'll be back later."

[2xx1xy1JD]

Actually you can choose any holy or secular book to be sworn in under... at least in any court case I have witnessed/been a part of (and sadly that's more than I care to remember.. wow). the Partner swore in under a Darwin book the last time we went to court. Here you just have to let the court officials know before the court date and they'll try their best to accommodate you. I typically swear in under just a book.. it doesn't have any pages I don't think... it just straight up looks like a generic book you'd pull from the bookshelves. I'd be interested if other courts do this as well... I can't think KY would be THAT progressive when other places aren't.

In Ontario, Canada, you can choose to be sworn in on the holy book of your choice (they keep the Bible and Quran in the courtroom) or to affirm (which is the legal equivalent of swearing, for people who either do not have a faith, or who are so religious that they avoid taking oaths). You do not need to justify your choice to affirm instead of swear.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's obvious this teen is going to need a lot of support emotionally and spiritually. I think the judge understands all the guilt he is going to have to deal with for being responsible for someone else's death and having faith in something outside of himself could help him. I volunteer as part of a faith-based recovery program, and probation and parole officers do use our program as part of the terms of release from prison. Most addicts also attend church as well. I'm afraid you would be very livid if you lived near me.

Do you see a difference between an accused criminal putting together a proposal himself for a plan to avoid jail that may include attending a faith-based program, versus a judge imposing a faith-based program or church attendance on a criminal without having any idea what his religious background is?

Do you understand the First Amendment?

The boy here isn't going to appeal the sentence, because he's probably just happy to avoid jail (which he certainly deserved, IMO). The ACLU would need to start a complaint on its own.

[Artemis]

Message subject: chatter discussion

From: CC3

Sent: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:21 am

To: Artemis

Quote message Report private message Delete message

Hi, I am on vacation this week. If you would still like to have a discussion w/me, I will be back next week. I'm looking forward to hearing your explanations on homosexuality. I am approx. the same age as you, btw, if that is relevant. Have a good weekend.

CC3, I would have replied to your PM as a matter of courtesy, but you have disabled your PM function, so I can't.

I look forward to resuming our discussion next week. Please PM me when you return and I will start a thread in Chatter.

Apologies to others for resurrecting a defunct thread.

[formergothardite]

Thanks for posting that. I figured, I didn't figure she would be back.