Judge Sentences Teen Offender to Church

[CC3]

Exactly. Just because you say you're not hateful, doesn't mean you're not. Being hateful isn't about how you perceive yourself, it's about how others perceive you. Also being against gay marriage generally means you're okay with forcing your religion on people who don't believe it as law. So it's actually a pretty good comparison. In this case, the judge is forcing religion using the law, even though there's supposed to be a separation of church and state. If you want gay marriage to be illegal, you are forcing your religion on people who may not believe it using the law, and ignoring that there's a separation of church and state. The law and religion should have nothing to do with one another.

I agree in theory that a person's religion should not be a factor in the law, but I don't think my opinion on the gay marriage is any less valid than yours. Our belief systems are going to affect our opinions and opinions affect lawmakers. If you live in my state, you could try to get gay marriage legalized. I'm not against your right to say what you think and your right to try to change law.

[CC3]

There are Christians who believe the Bible and disagree with you.

I'm sure you can find Christians who will disagree with me on many things. That's why we have so many denominations.

[valsa]

I'm sure you can find Christians who will disagree with me on many things. That's why we have so many denominations.

And yet you still have the arrogance to believe that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one.

That's alright, I'm sure the Bible has nothing to say against arrogance and pride.

[CC3]

No, by 'actions' I meant that thing where you get parole officers to send you people with substance abuse problems, and then you attempt to inprint your prejudices on them.

Actually, our group didn't approach parole officers at all. I am not so powerful as to imprint my opinions onto anyone. Think about what you are saying. If you disagree with me, fine, join another group.

[formergothardite]

Gay people can't get married in my state, so I would not say get married.

If they could, though, since that day is coming, how would your respond? You are trying your best to get out of giving a straight answer, you know. I don't know why all of God's chosen who come here seem to have such a problem answering questions.

[CC3]

And yet you still have the arrogance to believe that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one.

That's alright, I'm sure the Bible has nothing to say against arrogance and pride.

Would you prefer I don't have opinion on anything? Is having an opinion arrogance?

[formergothardite]

You have vulnerable people, who are coming to you for help. One of these days you are going to be impacting a gay person, and it sounds like your impact will be negative. So you want to serve people as long as they are straight, as soon as they are gay and want marriage you do not want to help them reach that goal.

[Sola]

Wow, bet they'd be pissed off if he decided to join a mosque instead.

[CC3]

If they could, though, since that day is coming, how would your respond? You are trying your best to get out of giving a straight answer, you know. I don't know why all of God's chosen who come here seem to have such a problem answering questions.

I am doing my best to answer you. I said I would show a person the Bible. I have not said I am God's chosen.

[valsa]

Wow, bet they'd be pissed off if he decided to join a mosque instead.

I was personally hoping for a local coven or Church of Satan group.

[valsa]

Would you prefer I don't have opinion on anything? Is having an opinion arrogance?

I'd prefer it if you admitted that your opinion on what the Bible says is one of dozens, if not hundreds, of equally valid opinions about what the Bible says.

You could start by admitting that you're against gay marriage not because "God is against it", but because your intrepretation of the Bible makes you think God is against it. Likewise, to support your anti-gay marriage beliefs to another person, you wouldn't show them "what the Bible says", you'd show them the few parts of the Bible that support your intrepretation.

[formergothardite]

I am doing my best to answer you. I said I would show a person the Bible. I have not said I am God's chosen.

And if that person reads the Bible and takes them to mean that gay marriage is right and wants your support in that, how would you respond? You have a vulnerable person, looking to you for support, a person who(because of beliefs like yours) has most likely been treated as a second class citizen his/her whole life, if they want to eventually move to a state that does allow gay marriage and read your verses to support that, how are you going to respond to that?

[ElphabaGalinda]

I agree in theory that a person's religion should not be a factor in the law, but I don't think my opinion on the gay marriage is any less valid than yours. Our belief systems are going to affect our opinions and opinions affect lawmakers. If you live in my state, you could try to get gay marriage legalized. I'm not against your right to say what you think and your right to try to change law.

If gay marriage were legal in your state, no one would force you to get married to someone of your same sex, and you could go on believing it was against the Bible all you want. But if you want gay marriage not to be legal, you are forcing people not be get married based on your beliefs. Do you see the difference? Your belief system forces people to not get married even though they believe they should, therefore negatively affecting people. My belief system just gives people the option of doing what they believe is right. And it should not only be a theory. Laws should not be based on nothing but "because my holy book says so". You have a separation of church and state in your country just like I have in mine, and that should be followed. To change a law you should have a reason other than because my religion says so, because not everyone follows your religion. Religious Jews believe it's wrong to eat pork, but they're not trying to make it illegal for everyone else to eat pork. Same idea. Follow your religion however you want, but don't try to force it on others.

So you think it's totally okay to have laws based on the Bible even though not everyone believes in it? Why are your beliefs so important that they should be made into law? Gay marriage is actually legal in my country, so I don't have to try to change the law, but you're still allowed to believe gay marriage is wrong here. You can believe whatever you want, but you shouldn't use that belief to force people in doing things they don't believe in.

[formergothardite]

Obviously on some level you think your are God's chosen because you have said that your opinion on gay marriage is God's opinion even though people can read the Bible and get a totally different message from it. And your opinion is such an opinion of God that you want to use it to deny other churches' the ability to marry gay people. So, yeah, you think you are God's chosen who is the only one reading the Bible correctly.

[CC3]

You have vulnerable people, who are coming to you for help. One of these days you are going to be impacting a gay person, and it sounds like your impact will be negative. So you want to serve people as long as they are straight, as soon as they are gay and want marriage you do not want to help them reach that goal.

I don't think I am a negative influence. I have two gay men working for me who are a couple. You can't say I am negative if you haven't met me or have experienced real life in my shoes... I do enjoy reading opinions on FJ. It's good to know what motivates others in their beliefs. By nature, I am very quiet and don't get into debates. I try to love my neighbor as myself. Loving doesn't mean agreeing with and enabling others. It also means being patient and kind. So why would I try to force my beliefs on others.

You brought this topic up and now don't like my answers.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't think I am a negative influence. I have two gay men working for me who are a couple. You can't say I am negative if you haven't met me or have experienced real life in my shoes... I do enjoy reading opinions on FJ. It's good to know what motivates others in their beliefs. By nature, I am very quiet and don't get into debates. I try to love my neighbor as myself. Loving doesn't mean agreeing with and enabling others. It also means being patient and kind. So why would I try to force my beliefs on others.

You brought this topic up and now don't like my answers.

What do you mean by this (in this context)?

[CC3]

I'd prefer it if you admitted that your opinion on what the Bible says is one of dozens, if not hundreds, of equally valid

opinions about what the Bible says.

Valsa, I watched a video from I think his name is Matthew Vines (?). I didn't agree with him, but admire his passion. I am not prepared to give chapter and verse like he did.

You could start by admitting that you're against gay marriage not because "God is against it", but because your intrepretation of the Bible makes you think God is against it. Likewise, to support your anti-gay marriage beliefs to another person, you wouldn't show them "what the Bible says", you'd show them the few parts of the Bible that support your intrepretation.

[CC3]

What do you mean by this (in this context)?

I'm still thinking about the recovery group. I mostly work with people who are enablers.

[Kitty]

No, you mean that you'd be making it easier for people to do something you don't line. Homosexuality is not a disease like addiction is and gay marriage is not like legalizing drugs. You realize you came within a breath of making that comparison, right?

[CC3]

Obviously on some level you think your are God's chosen because you have said that your opinion on gay marriage is God's opinion even though people can read the Bible and get a totally different message from it. And your opinion is such an opinion of God that you want to use it to deny other churches' the ability to marry gay people. So, yeah, you think you are God's chosen who is the only one reading the Bible correctly.

You have been hurt by a religious cult that distorted the Bible. I'm sorry that happened to you. I understand people will pick and chose what verses they like and ignore ones they don't like. God's chosen people isn't how I view myself, but I will give it some thought.

BTW, on the thread where you pulled my quotes from, I came across as very devisive. I had spinal surgery and was taking painkillers. I have feel disappointed in myself for needlessly causing a raukus.

[CC3]

No, you mean that you'd be making it easier for people to do something you don't line. Homosexuality is not a disease like addiction is and gay marriage is not like legalizing drugs. You realize you came within a breath of making that comparison, right?

Yes, that is what it looks like when I read it back. But it is not what I meant.

[valsa]

You have been hurt by a religious cult that distorted the Bible. I'm sorry that happened to you. I understand people will pick and chose what verses they like and ignore ones they don't like.

First off, I have not been hurt by a cult that distorts the Bible and I feel the same way formergothardite does. Secondly, do you understand that it's not just people who pick and choose what verses they like and ignore ones they don't- it's you too?

[Witsec7]

So which is it?

Do probation and parole officers require your faith-based program or do the people choose it themselves?

There was a time when my city and county contracted out to faith based programs for the purposes of drug and alcohol sentencing. Since I live in one of the least religious states in our nation it made little sense to foist religion onto folks suffering from the diseases of addiction. With community effort and support we were able to change things. Our city and county now have a prohibition regarding contracting to these groups.

[CC3]

First off, I have not been hurt by a cult that distorts the Bible and I feel the same way formergothardite does. Secondly, do you understand that it's not just people who pick and choose what verses they like and ignore ones they don't- it's you too?

You are gay, right? Naturally, you are going to want to defend your beliefs and morality and are offended by me and some parts of the Bible. I get that. As far as picking and chosing verses goes, I am sure I do it to a certain degree.

[CC3]

There was a time when my city and county contracted out to faith based programs for the purposes of drug and alcohol sentencing. Since I live in one of the least religious states in our nation it made little sense to foist religion onto folks suffering from the diseases of addiction. With community effort and support we were able to change things. Our city and county now have a prohibition regarding contracting to these groups.

You did see my answer, right? We do NOT get paid and are NOT the only choice in town.