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An ATI Childhood


formergothardite

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This is a new blog set up to shed the light on the harmful teachings of ATI. One of the writers shares his story about growing up in ATI and I thought people might be interested in reading it. I'm not breaking the link because I'm pretty sure they will be okay with us discussing them.

 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/07/atichildhood1/

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I read through John's story and it was heartbreaking in some parts especially when he talked about OCD and the incident with young woman killed in a car wreck while listening to secular music. Thanks for posting that link and I agree they would be ok with us discussing them. I'm willing to bet they loathe the Duggars.

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All I can say is wow. I wish someone could get this material to the Duggars. I always though that Gothard was an evil false prophet, but

this proves it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Interesting (and encouraging) that less than 1% of children raised in ATI stay. And the pride and arrogance the author describes is very evident in the Duggars.

I really wish that some news organization would latch on to this and publicize the connection to the Duggars.

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All I can say is wow. I wish someone could get this material to the Duggars. I always though that Gothard was an evil false prophet, but

this proves it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Interesting (and encouraging) that less than 1% of children raised in ATI stay. And the pride and arrogance the author describes is very evident in the Duggars.

I really wish that some news organization would latch on to this and publicize the connection to the Duggars.

I think the Duggars would deny what John or others say about Gothard. I also wish a news organization would latch on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if TLC has stopped certain info about the Duggars or ATI from being well known. I'm glad this site exists because I think if some people find out about it people will see that JimBob and Michelle aren't really wholesome harmless Christians.

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I also suspect that TLC is doing their best to keep Gothard and ATI hidden as much as possible; playing it off as some sort of normal homeschool conference that they go to every year. I wish we could get somebody big in the news to do an undercover report on it and then go interview the Duggars and see how they reply. Call them out on what ATI/Gothard really says about women working, wearing pants and college. I'm sure they would deny, deny, deny and then call the people who speak out against the abuse in ATI as bitter and against God.

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Just reading the first page, and this:

WTF? No seriously, why?

From an article about Gothard:

The team tries to conciliate by adding, “Bill reported this information during the basic seminar and provided documentation to those who requested it. This produced many additional testimonies from parents who saw dramatic freedom as soon as the Cabbage Patch Kids® dolls were removed. The parents were the ones giving the warnings, not Bill’s teaching.†This is a useless nuance. If a preacher endorses testimonials from his pulpit, and those testimonials teach something, then the preacher is teaching it, if not directly then by endorsement and approval.

Gothard has published even more claims about Cabbage Patch Kids since that first letter. His January 1996 Basic Care Newsletter from his Medical Training Institute defines the potential of the once-popular dolls. The publication stated that there are a core of midwives that are working against “Satan’s program from Genesis to Revelation to destroy the Godly seed.†This report endorsed by Gothard and his organization then describes “cleansing the home from evil influences.†The midwives searched the homes for Cabbage Patch Kids dolls and Troll dolls. They believed the destruction of these facilitated the births. Just having these items in the home retarded a speedy delivery, said the newsletter. Attributing this much power to a doll goes beyond the pale of reason and lapses into pagan superstition.

Testimonials are a slippery foundation. Nearly every cult in the world bases its authority on its testimonials. That is why some of Gothard’s teachings have cultic leanings. However, this kind of numbers game can cut both ways and thousands of parents and children could be produced who saw no harmful effects from owning such a doll. Saying something is an idol does not make it so.

Here is the whole article:

http://www.pfo.org/bgothard.htm

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The pride and arrogance bit sounded so familiar. What about wearing skirts only or not listening to certain music make you better than someone else? The Duggars say they don't judge others choices but I think there is arrogance and pride with them too. :roll:

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From an article about Gothard:

The team tries to conciliate by adding, “Bill reported this information during the basic seminar and provided documentation to those who requested it. This produced many additional testimonies from parents who saw dramatic freedom as soon as the Cabbage Patch Kids® dolls were removed. The parents were the ones giving the warnings, not Bill’s teaching.†This is a useless nuance. If a preacher endorses testimonials from his pulpit, and those testimonials teach something, then the preacher is teaching it, if not directly then by endorsement and approval.

Gothard has published even more claims about Cabbage Patch Kids since that first letter. His January 1996 Basic Care Newsletter from his Medical Training Institute defines the potential of the once-popular dolls. The publication stated that there are a core of midwives that are working against “Satan’s program from Genesis to Revelation to destroy the Godly seed.†This report endorsed by Gothard and his organization then describes “cleansing the home from evil influences.†The midwives searched the homes for Cabbage Patch Kids dolls and Troll dolls. They believed the destruction of these facilitated the births. Just having these items in the home retarded a speedy delivery, said the newsletter. Attributing this much power to a doll goes beyond the pale of reason and lapses into pagan superstition.

Testimonials are a slippery foundation. Nearly every cult in the world bases its authority on its testimonials. That is why some of Gothard’s teachings have cultic leanings. However, this kind of numbers game can cut both ways and thousands of parents and children could be produced who saw no harmful effects from owning such a doll. Saying something is an idol does not make it so.

Here is the whole article:

http://www.pfo.org/bgothard.htm

Wow. Thank you! Pagan superstition indeed ....

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Well, except for Gothard's "college". That is God approved, of course. Everything else is of the devil.

I really, really, really wish somebody would do a big story about the Gothard/Duggar connection. I'm shocked that after all these years of them being in the spotlight nobody has.

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IBLP/ATI is nothing but a huge cult. These people bow down to Gothard and his teachings like as if he's a demigod. Before Michelle and Jim Bob had children, they seemed fairly normal but I'm convinced that Gothard had something to do with their drastic conservative change. ATI uses scare tactics into making sure you "obey" what he teaches so when you die, you go to Heaven. Women have worked so hard to obtain rights in this country yet he brings these women back into the 19th century, teaching it's a woman's duty as a wife to submit to her husband, cook, clean, and take care of the children. Removing "secular" things from a home so nothing bad happens has got to be the dumbest thing known to man kind. Although the Duggars claim they don't judge others, you know they do behind closed doors. Hell, even that Ethiopian restaurant episode, you saw them rolling their eyes and the public school episode. My roommate, who is a strong Christian, said that ATI/IBLP is nothing but a cult and does not teach Christianity. They pick and choose certain things from the Bible that they feel is right and follow it too literally by scaring members into doing what they, Gothard to be exact, is right. In the end, Gothard takes their money and makes a profit out of it.

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I had cabbage patch dolls, guess I'm going straight to hell. :) Seriously though, it's so archaic and superstitious, the idea that having dolls around would lead to difficult births. It reminds me of the Medieval/Early Modern ideas about childbirth and how women were confined to dark rooms, lest they have a dangerous thought and that thought "poison" the baby. Keyholes were blacked out, wall paper or decorations were changed to make sure there were no "bad" or exciting images that might harm the baby.

I hope other people can find this website and wake up. I still don't understand what makes otherwise reasonable people be duped into things like this. Maybe it's the culture? If one grows up in the Bible Belt or really religious areas does that make he/she more prone to see this kind of thing as legit? To me it just seems to foreign to abandon all your reasoning and common sense like that.

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Before Michelle and Jim Bob had children, they seemed fairly normal but I'm convinced that Gothard had something to do with their drastic conservative change.

I have to wonder about how they originally met Gothard, and also who the doctor was that told them the Pill caused their miscarriage. [Also, one of my pet peeves is saying the pill causes abortions. No, even if it does cause miscarriages, for which there is NO evidence if you read the medical papers on it, an abortion implies intent.] I don't understand how they really got sucked into this, although I'd believe something like some of Jim Bob's super conservative/evangelical high school friends turning their minds, or being mutually good friends with Gothard or something. And I suspect if they bullied Michelle with patriarchal Bible verses or something, she'd believe it and not question any of these new convictions. And miscarriages are really hard to deal with - I've never been pregnant but I know a lot of women who have miscarried and I'm sure I'd be devastated - so she may have been more vulnerable immediately after the fact. I don't see how Gothard wasn't involved but I would love to know how he got involved. Who introduced the Duggars to ATI/IBLP/Gothard?

And Cabbage Patch Dolls? Seriously? We had at least one or two in our house, last I checked none of us were possessed by demons. But then we're also mainstream protestants and my sister is fairly agnostic now, so I guess perhaps we were already corrupted. Not to mention being able to watch things like Barney and Sesame Street and the Muppets and the Flintstones and the Jetstones. The outside influences! HIDE FROM THE EVIL! QUICK! Big Bird and Kermit and Bam Bam might all come attack you at once!

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and also who the doctor was that told them the Pill caused their miscarriage. [Also, one of my pet peeves is saying the pill causes abortions. No, even if it does cause miscarriages, for which there is NO evidence if you read the medical papers on it, an abortion implies intent.]

I belive it was Dr. Wheat, the same guy who wrote Josh's sex manual. I'm pretty sure he's a gothardite, despite having an MD. I know people here or on TWOP looked up his credentials awhile back, and he's basically a quack. I'm going by memory, maybe someone with more verified info can chime in.

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Didn't Boob tell Josh that he was his doctor growing up? I mean grain of salt because it's television and all but if Wheat were his doctor in his youth then perhaps the seeds of fundieism were there long before Michelle. Perhaps not in the same dramatic, extreme manner but still. (I know, ISB but I wondered).

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Cabbage Patch Dolls are hideously ugly, but quite sure they have no demonic powers.

The National Enquirer published a story about women who were unable to bear children "adopting" Cabbage Patch dolls and treating them as real babies. Supposedly Satan possessed these dolls and they murdered their human mothers.

http://www.snopes.com/business/origins/cabbage.asp

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How did TLC latch on to this ATI cult and what made them want to showcase this in a reality show? Did the Duggars approach TLC and pitch the idea for a show about their wonderfully large, God-fearing family? Was it pitched to TLC by Gothard? If it were, I guess maybe you'd see more of their products being promoted (books and such).

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Thanks Vision/Dreamer, that helps. I wonder if Dr. Wheat wrote only about doing it missionary style...Surely the wives must be bottom to be submissive...Aaahhhh NO, BRAIN, NO IMAGES! SPARE ME!

Was Jim Bob maybe raised fundie-light then, if Dr. Wheat was his doctor? Was he already a gothardite then and guilted JB & M into following our favourite false preacher?

It seems to me that they found ATI in a very different way than the parents of the guy who wrote the article that started this very veering thread.

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The National Enquirer published a story about women who were unable to bear children "adopting" Cabbage Patch dolls and treating them as real babies. Supposedly Satan possessed these dolls and they murdered their human mothers.

http://www.snopes.com/business/origins/cabbage.asp

I remember that! :lol:

Cabbage Patch Dolls are the only dolls I'm NOT afraid of! Mostly I feel that dolls are evil and to be avoided. :shifty:

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I do remember Jim Bob saying that they met a family who homeschooled their children using the ATI curriculum, and that they were very impressed with the children's fine character qualities, so they decided to join. I can't remember the exact episode- I think it is one of the earlier ones- maybe even one of the specials.

I believe that Gothard reels in unsuspecting families by showcasing a shiny happy family with lots of kids (like the Duggars), and then once the family joins, and cuts off outside influences, the real indoctrination begins. It seems much like the Mormons and the "milk before meat" practice they use with converts.

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The Duggars say they don't judge others choices but I think there is arrogance and pride with them too.

Don't forget when the four oldest Duggar girls went to the Gothard indoctrination camp the first time, a couple years ago, Jana admitted on that podcast that she'd been feeling "pride." This word has soooo many facets, but I wonder if she was feeling the "better X-tian than you" variety, was prideful that she was pretty and would bring a high bride price when the time came for her to marry.

The OP's linked piece makes me doubly curious about why she, and only she, was sent back. Fed up, especially when she thought she might marry soon, but instead being informed that she was to be Josie's new "buddy?" Resentment because maybe she had a thing for the Staddon or Bates boys who are now courting/engaged, or another guy we don't even know about (although the families we see who live near them seem to be girl-heavy...I think that Anna Hackel girl is in the "see if they're compatible" phase with JD Duggar). Or simply resentment that her friends are marrying and having kids while she's not? Jealous of Anna? Possibly...I've picked up negative vibes from Jana ever since Anna set up housekeeping in Arkanasas with Smuggar.

At any rate, I see a ton of "we're better than you" on every damn family or SAHD blog out there. The entire lifestyle seems to be about one-upsmanship *cough*GC Kelly, Maxwells, Zsu*cough.

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Also, one of my pet peeves is saying the pill causes abortions. No, even if it does cause miscarriages, for which there is NO evidence if you read the medical papers on it, an abortion implies intent.
I agree with you in intent, and at the same time I think the word "abortion" is perfectly valid to use to describe a miscarriage if you're using it technically. But people are using it for a scare tactic. The word's just so loaded at this point.

I referred to my miscarriage as either a miscarriage or a "spontaneous abortion", but only to people I knew wouldn't focus on the keyword "abortion". Technically abortion's just the expulsion of an unviable fetus from the womb; that can be spontaneous or induced.

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