The Truth Behind the Welfare Queen Myth

[JesusFightClub]

I am a foster parent. Because some of the children are in the system they are automatically placed on WIC which does help because I certainly don't get a huge stipend in our county. What I have notice is the people who look down at me when they see my other groceries.

I really noticed it one day because the store had lobster tails on sale for $5.99 each...my family likes them so I think I bought 8. Soda was on sale and I only buy it if its on sale, I refuse to spend over $3.00 a 12 pack, so there was a bunch of soda, I think I had some other meats and other stuff. I really went to the store to get the WIC items not shop, so it was those loss leaders that stores use to bring you in. I had 3 checks to use and they have to be used in seperate orders. So I had 4 orders to be rung up. If someone gets behind me I usually tell them I'm going to be awhile.

So they are ringing through my orders, a woman comes up behind me and I tell her its going to be a while, she starts shooting me looks, the longer she sits there the more chance she has to see what's on the counter the more vocal she gets.

I so wanted to turn around and tell her to stuff it that she didn't know the facts about why I had the checks, or even the fact that lobster tails at my house was really the only place these kids have been exposed to them, that soda is a treat, and that the only people in my house that drinks the milk WIC pays for is the kids. And I'd gladly give her the number to Foster Care since they need people to volunteer to take kids, especially teenagers, and then see could see for herself. But I didn't because in the end I don't have to justify why I'm using WIC checks, I don't have to justify why I'm buying lobster tails or soda and there is no need to bring any shame to my kids because they are in the system.

The moral is don't judge.

BTW, I got even more glares when I whipped out 2 $100 bills to pay for the last order.

Disgrace you should have been treated like that! :shock:

If you're entitled to the money you get to use it how you see fit in my book.

[Trynn]

THIS! Jesus did not put any conditions on helping the poor. But, helping the poor and needy isn't a religious thing. It's plain human decency.

Honestly, I think it's both. Jesus had quite a bit to say, IIRC, about helping the poor. Or was that just by example? Can't remember, but either way, I always thought it was both my Christian duty and basic human decency to help people out.

[emmiedahl]

Disgrace you should have been treated like that! :shock:

If you're entitled to the money you get to use it how you see fit in my book.

WIC checks take forever to use. For the Brits, they are special coupons that are good for a specific item, like a 16 oz container of peanut butter or 2 gallons of low-fat milk. They are very specific and are meant to keep nutritious foods in households with pregnant women and/or children under the age of 5; even many middle class families use the program. The checks have to be rung up separately in many states, which means that you are having to go through 3 separate payments or even more if you are buying some non-WIC items. I have found you are more likely to be verbally assaulted when using WIC checks than any other form of assistance because people feel that you are wasting their tax money AND their time. My husband does most of the WIC purchases because I don't have the stomach for it. When I see someone with specific items in their cart, I get behind them in line to buffer them from other shoppers a bit because many people feel the need to comment on how inconvenienced they are.

I have a child with texture issues who can only eat very specific foods, that happen to be things that most people don't think should be bought with food stamps. And I am buying them with food stamps, and budgeting the rest of our groceries to allow some funds for the special items. I don't think it is really anyone's business if I can make $400 a month feed a family of seven even with one who has more expensive needs. If anything, moms who are budgeting their food stamps to allow the occasional treat deserve a pat on the back.

[Rosa]

Being unable to pay your bills actually encourages financial irresponsibility.

I used to be a budgeter. I made categories and split our money into those categories and then we stuck to the budget. We lived within our means because of that budget.

Now? I avoid budgeting like the plague. Why? Because I know that my income does not add up to equal our expenses, no matter how I move things around. It sounds silly to say this is a reason not to budget, but it is fucking useless if all it does is drive home the fact that we don't have enough for our basic needs. I don't need to have that point driven home, I totally get it.

But I still buy my kids toys and clothing. Modest toys and clothing, of course. I cannot afford it, but they have to have coats and shoes and Hanukkah presents. So I just buy them and then deal with the aftermath later.

I was not raised this way; I was raised with voluntary simplicity and parents who were cheap as fuck. Materialistic culture was a bad thing whereas for many people external signs of wealth are seem as something positive. So my "splurges" are things like $10 shoes because of my training and upbringing. A lot of people sincerely believe that being a good parent means namebrand shoes and a room full of electronics. No one needs that stuff, whether rich or poor, but we are told as a society that it is important. Poor people get the same message.

QFT. And i'd add, you know how they say to eat before you go grocery shopping, so you have more mental energy and aren't hungry in front of all that food?

Stress makes decisionmaking harder. Having to make hard decisions all the time is a huge energy sink. So even if it were true that poor people make worse financial decisions than middle class people (which isn't even true, they just have less leeway to recover from poor decisions), it would be TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE AND HUMAN. Because poor people have to make more hard decisions all the damn time under more stress with worse consequences.

[Peas n carrots]

Stress makes decisionmaking harder. Having to make hard decisions all the time is a huge energy sink. So even if it were true that poor people make worse financial decisions than middle class people (which isn't even true, they just have less leeway to recover from poor decisions), it would be TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE AND HUMAN. Because poor people have to make more hard decisions all the damn time under more stress with worse consequences.

I'd like to add that this alone is the reason why I was enraged when Ann and Mitt harken back to the days when they were first married and had little in the house. It pissed me off, because you know if Mitt failed, he could just pack it in and have his dad help him out until he could get back on his feet. Someone like me, failure is not an option. My parents barely scrape by as it is plus with two younger siblings in college and one still in high school they just have no room to support a 30 something year old and her husband if I lose my job. He didn't experience poverty...he was just kind of poor and getting started in live. He had a safety net...so although failure would be an ego hit, him and Ann certainly weren't going to have to live out of a car. They never had to deal with those kind of lingering fears that kept me from sleeping at night when my company declared BK and were laying off people on a weekly basis. They DON'T fucking understand.

[JesusFightClub]

I spoke about this before. I call it dolehead.

In the UK you get your two weeks dole at the same time. So you go from having 0.00 in your account to about £150. And you go MENTAL.

As people have pointed out, no point budgeting. You want a bit of fun, don't you? Don't you deserve it after pinching and scraping and not being able to pay the bills, because you never could if you budgeted out your arse, don't you deserve a wee drink or maybe a few?

And...it's not long before it's £20 and you're even more stuffed.

[lilwriter85]

I'd like to add that this alone is the reason why I was enraged when Ann and Mitt harken back to the days when they were first married and had little in the house. It pissed me off, because you know if Mitt failed, he could just pack it in and have his dad help him out until he could get back on his feet. Someone like me, failure is not an option. My parents barely scrape by as it is plus with two younger siblings in college and one still in high school they just have no room to support a 30 something year old and her husband if I lose my job. He didn't experience poverty...he was just kind of poor and getting started in live. He had a safety net...so although failure would be an ego hit, him and Ann certainly weren't going to have to live out of a car. They never had to deal with those kind of lingering fears that kept me from sleeping at night when my company declared BK and were laying off people on a weekly basis. They DON'T fucking understand.

I remember hearing about that and it also annoyed me. Mitt and Ann had an additional safety net the other being Annie's father. It also annoyed me when Ann tried to related to other SAHMs. The only SAHMs that could relate to her are wealthy SAHMs.

[jaynie]

~apologies in advance if large block quotes are verboten~

I'd like to add that smart phones are the way many poor and marginalized people access the Internet regularly. For a good many of my students, their cell phones are the only reliable way they have to do everything from get homework help to research the college application/financial aid process to take practice college entrance exams. It burns me to no end when privileged conservative types scoff at poor people with smart phones. On the one hand they complain that poor/marginalized people don't do enough to better themselves, and on the other they complain when they have access to the technology that might actually help them get out of poverty.

I've been thinking about this, and actually, a smart phone is a brilliant investment if you're poor. You've got Internet/messaging/phone services, sure, but you've also got access to books (via kindle or w/e, many of which are free), dictionaries, language translators, clock functions, radio, newspapers, maps & GPS, a semi-decent camera and photo album, a semi-decent mp3 player, a host of reasonably enjoyable games, a basic word processor, a calendar, transit schedules, in some ways a television, all kinds of educational apps, etc etc etc. Not that I'd begrudge poor people the occasional nice thing anyway, but I think if you're well-off you tend to dismiss smart phone functions like these as novelties because you have things that perform those functions better (a proper camera, a proper sat nav, etc). But in terms of value for money, it's a fantastic save.

[Minerva]

I've been thinking about this, and actually, a smart phone is a brilliant investment if you're poor. You've got Internet/messaging/phone services, sure, but you've also got access to books (via kindle or w/e, many of which are free), dictionaries, language translators, clock functions, radio, newspapers, maps & GPS, a semi-decent camera and photo album, a semi-decent mp3 player, a host of reasonably enjoyable games, a basic word processor, a calendar, transit schedules, in some ways a television, all kinds of educational apps, etc etc etc. Not that I'd begrudge poor people the occasional nice thing anyway, but I think if you're well-off you tend to dismiss smart phone functions like these as novelties because you have things that perform those functions better (a proper camera, a proper sat nav, etc). But in terms of value for money, it's a fantastic save.

So true. When the Québec students went on strike, people were posting pictures of them holding smartphones as proof that they could afford to pay more tuition. It goes without saying that these people were all older adults who grew up in a time where attending university was far more economically feasible than now, and who neither understand how people currently going to school and entering the job market need up-to-date technology to succeed nor that most of us don't have TV, a home phone, a sound system, a DVD player, a GPS...we just have our phone and our laptop. We can live more cheaply with our fancy schmancy newfangled smartphones.

A calendar app is 2$ - most people spend over 5$ on their calendar. I downloaded a scientific calculator for free - those are at least 10$. I had to buy a scientific calculator to take exams, but if you just needed one for your job, you wouldn't have to pay for it. I need a cellphone for my job - my boss only communicates with his employees via text. At the very least, I'd make at least 100$ less on each paycheque if I didn't have a cellphone because my boss would just not offer me extra shifts. The damn thing paid for itself years ago.

[jaynie]

So true. When the Québec students went on strike, people were posting pictures of them holding smartphones as proof that they could afford to pay more tuition. It goes without saying that these people were all older adults who grew up in a time where attending university was far more economically feasible than now, and who neither understand how people currently going to school and entering the job market need up-to-date technology to succeed nor that most of us don't have TV, a home phone, a sound system, a DVD player, a GPS...we just have our phone and our laptop. We can live more cheaply with our fancy schmancy newfangled smartphones.

A calendar app is 2$ - most people spend over 5$ on their calendar. I downloaded a scientific calculator for free - those are at least 10$. I had to buy a scientific calculator to take exams, but if you just needed one for your job, you wouldn't have to pay for it. I need a cellphone for my job - my boss only communicates with his employees via text. At the very least, I'd make at least 100$ less on each paycheque if I didn't have a cellphone because my boss would just not offer me extra shifts. The damn thing paid for itself years ago.

Edited to add my actual comment (bloody computers!)

I actually started to add up the cost of buying each individual item that a smart phone could stand in for, but I gave up because there was no point. The smart phone is obviously a better bargin. To imagine owning one means you can afford tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of dollars in tuition is insane.

Along the same lines, I've had people tell me that if I were really worried about my student finances I wouldn't own two computers (one of which is a pokey little acer netbook worth about the same as one textbook). Because never mind all the course material I have to access online, or the scholarly databases, or the reports I have to type, or the important emails from professors which sometimes come at odd hours, or the digital textbooks that are cheaper and more informative than the paper kind, or the online study tools, or the university website that I have to use to manage my student info, or any of that. Obviously I could get all of that at a library at absolutely no inconvenience to myself. :roll:

[SomewhatFundy]

To top it off, smartphones are usually not a big investment if you are renewing your contract. People act like you are throwing hundreds of dollars out the window for buying them, but most of the time you barely have to pay anything for one. I recently got a pretty nice Android phone for like, 20 bucks just for renewing my contract. I guess I could have spent 80 bucks buying an inconspicuous clunker so that nobody would think I was wasting their precious taxpayer monies. But then, I have (very gratefully) not had to worry about the judgement from others for using food stamps in a while.

The whole argument against welfare programs is just insane. What is the average American taxpayer actually paying per year towards food stamps specifically? Like a hundred bucks or so? Anybody know? It seems like it wouldn't be much.

[Wolfie]

To top it off, smartphones are usually not a big investment if you are renewing your contract. People act like you are throwing hundreds of dollars out the window for buying them, but most of the time you barely have to pay anything for one. I recently got a pretty nice Android phone for like, 20 bucks just for renewing my contract. I guess I could have spent 80 bucks buying an inconspicuous clunker so that nobody would think I was wasting their precious taxpayer monies. But then, I have (very gratefully) not had to worry about the judgement from others for using food stamps in a while.

The whole argument against welfare programs is just insane. What is the average American taxpayer actually paying per year towards food stamps specifically? Like a hundred bucks or so? Anybody know? It seems like it wouldn't be much.

The only thing that I will say about a smartphone is that you're paying $80+ a month for them. When you can't make most of your bills, that's a big chunk.

I agree that they are very useful in today's society, but I know many people who get by with a regular old cell phone and the library. You don't NEED every gadget that a smartphone can make up for- even my previous phones could do e-mail, had a calendar, a calculator, an alarm, ect... I have a smartphone now, and I would have a hard time if I had to get rid of it, but I don't NEED it. I do need a cell phone for my job, but it doesn't have to do anything extra. I'm not going to judge somebody for having one, but if you're like somebody I know who gets a new one every year, or when one gets dropped in the tub, ect, yet can't afford preschool for your child, yes I will judge you. Mine is 3 years old, I want another one, and I'm saving up, but it will take a while.

I also generally have people giving me calendars, already got one this fall. Stores, unions, employers and various other places give them away.

[Guest Anonymous]

The only thing that I will say about a smartphone is that you're paying $80+ a month for them. When you can't make most of your bills, that's a big chunk.

I agree that they are very useful in today's society, but I know many people who get by with a regular old cell phone and the library. You don't NEED every gadget that a smartphone can make up for- even my previous phones could do e-mail, had a calendar, a calculator, an alarm, ect... I have a smartphone now, and I would have a hard time if I had to get rid of it, but I don't NEED it. I do need a cell phone for my job, but it doesn't have to do anything extra. I'm not going to judge somebody for having one, but if you're like somebody I know who gets a new one every year, or when one gets dropped in the tub, ect, yet can't afford preschool for your child, yes I will judge you. Mine is 3 years old, I want another one, and I'm saving up, but it will take a while.

I also generally have people giving me calendars, already got one this fall. Stores, unions, employers and various other places give them away.

I might have missed something, I haven't been following this thread closely, but what's $80+ a month? I pay £10 ($16) a month for mine. That covers all calls, messages and Internet.

[B5SnowDog]

I might have missed something, I haven't been following this thread closely, but what's $80+ a month? I pay £10 ($16) a month for mine. That covers all calls, messages and Internet.

Only $16 a month??? If they were that cheap here, I'd replace my dumb phone tomorrow. My husband and I share a family plan and it costs us $100 a month.

[JesusFightClub]

Mine is £20 or thereabouts with unlimited texts and 300 minutes of free talk a month, also unlimited Internet. However go over the 300 min talk and SERIOUS charges kick in, as I found to my cost one month!

It is an Android Galaxy, quite bad tempered (the signal fails more times than I thought possible and it needs a LOT of charging). I like it though, it's my wee mate. It has the only alarm which manages to wake me in the morning...

[B5SnowDog]

Our plan includes 1000 shared minutes, unlimited calls to each other, unlimited text messages, and 200 MB of data for my husband's phone. Mine doesn't access the internet but his sorta kinda can.

[slickcat79]

Only $16 a month??? If they were that cheap here, I'd replace my dumb phone tomorrow. My husband and I share a family plan and it costs us $100 a month.

IKR? I think the only thing you can get here for $16/month is pay-as-you-go voice minutes, if you don't talk much. I pay $75/month for my smartphone for 450 voice minutes (way more than I ever use), unlimited text, and 300MB internet, which is normally plenty but I'm very close to going over this month. But at least when I ordered the phone I got a droid incredible2 for free, with free shipping, free activation, and they gave me a $50 gift card for my old phone.

The phone was better than free, and I'll be looking for a similar deal when I go to replace it, but the monthly charges do add up. It's just really convenient to have, especially when I'm away from home.

[B5SnowDog]

I'd like to get a smartphone once our budget gets more wiggle room.

[snarkbillie]

Only $16 a month??? If they were that cheap here, I'd replace my dumb phone tomorrow. My husband and I share a family plan and it costs us $100 a month.

I do Virgin Mobile and I pay like $30 a month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited web. With 2 people it's still $80 though after taxes and shit. I don't use all 300 minutes ever. I tend to text/email rather than call on my cell.

[kb2]

Hell, I tried to get a landline phone recently and couldn't for less than $30. It was only "$14" until the very last step in signing up for it, when it was like, "Surprise fees!"

(I have nothing more insightful to say. ETA: I pay less for my phone with internet than I do internet where I live, so I can see how it's a good deal.)

[tingeofginge]

I do Virgin Mobile and I pay like $30 a month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited web. With 2 people it's still $80 though after taxes and shit. I don't use all 300 minutes ever. I tend to text/email rather than call on my cell.

I have Virgin Mobile as well, and pay $25/month for the same plan (300 min, unlimited data & texts). I don't know if it's because we live in a state with no sales tax, or what, but we never pay a penny over the $25. My husband has a T-Mobile no contract plan, which is $30/month for 100 min and unlimited data & texts, because he wanted a phone that he couldn't have with VM.

I think one of the most important things I've learned over the years, that has helped me become a much better person, is that one can NEVER judge someone else or a situation from how it looks on the outside.

[Kaylee]

I'll give another shoutout to Virgin Mobile prepaid.

Before money got so tight, I was paying $35 a month for a Blackberry with 300 minutes & unlimited text & data.

My husband pays $10 every 45 days for like 90 minutes, but he hardly ever uses his phone.

Prior to this, I was paying $115 a month for both of us to have the same service, without free texting.

The one disadvantage to a smartphone w/ Virgin is you have to buy the phone, but you can usually get them off ebay pretty cheap (I gave less than $20 for my Blackberry and used it for over 2 years).

[jaynie]

The only thing that I will say about a smartphone is that you're paying $80+ a month for them. When you can't make most of your bills, that's a big chunk.

I agree that they are very useful in today's society, but I know many people who get by with a regular old cell phone and the library. You don't NEED every gadget that a smartphone can make up for- even my previous phones could do e-mail, had a calendar, a calculator, an alarm, ect... I have a smartphone now, and I would have a hard time if I had to get rid of it, but I don't NEED it. I do need a cell phone for my job, but it doesn't have to do anything extra. I'm not going to judge somebody for having one, but if you're like somebody I know who gets a new one every year, or when one gets dropped in the tub, ect, yet can't afford preschool for your child, yes I will judge you. Mine is 3 years old, I want another one, and I'm saving up, but it will take a while.

I also generally have people giving me calendars, already got one this fall. Stores, unions, employers and various other places give them away.

I'd just like to point out that not everyone has good access to a nearby library, or the ability to go to one during open hours -- if I were library dependent I'd be taking a forty-minute bus ride each way nearly every day, and frequently late at night. Even if the access is good, the library might not be very well stocked, and there might be quite a lot of competition for a small number of computers. This is one of those cases where you can't assume that because it works for some people, it will work for everyone.

Also, my smartphone bill costs very little more than my previous stupidphone bill, and the trade-up for functionality is enormous. That seems very area dependent, though.

[lilith]

When I was very short of money my smartphone was a lifesaver.

I owned the phone and was paying $40 per month.

I didn't have a home phone, so it was my only contact number.

I used it as a modem for my laptop, and the 3 gig of data per month that came with the plan was enough for me to use the Internet as much as I wanted to and my daughter to use it for school and for entertainment so long as we didn't download video.

I had unlimited texts and up to $500 worth of voice calls a month, which I never exceeded.

When I looked at the costs of an Internet plan and home phone the cost was well in excess of $40 per month and would have tied me to contracts for 24 months, thus tying me to the dump I was living in.

The Internet is no longer a luxury. My kids need it for homework and assignments, from kindergarten on. I used it to do book keeping from home as well as to look for other jobs. The library really isn't a practical option for daily homework for three primary school age children, nor is it viable for working and staying in touch with clients via email.

Smart phones make great toys, but they also provide a connectedness that is vital to participating in the contemporary economy and in education at all levels.

They are a great investment for anyone, but especially for the poor who would be even more disadvantaged and disenfranchised if unable to access our online world.

[Minerva]

My smartphone is 40$ a month with no data (it's a particularly expensive plan, I just found out I can get the same stuff cheaper, and I will). I pay about 20 a month for regular internet. If I were to start getting internet on my phone, it would be cheaper than what I pay now. Very inconvenient for writing papers, but easily 10$ cheaper.