Video of alleged Mormon temple endowment ceremony

[lilwriter85]

Most of my relatives are Catholic and a few of them have spouses who converted to Catholicism before the marriages. The most recent situation like that was 5 or 6 years ago when one of my guy cousins got married to a woman whose family attends a liberal non-denominational church. They were ok with the daughter going through RICA before the wedding. At the rehearsal, one of the parish deacons sat with them explaining parts of the Mass and the wedding rituals in Catholicism. They seemed to be relaxed and they told different people at the wedding that they were happy that the priest and deacon were nice to them and helped them understand things about the wedding Mass better. Stuff like that would never go down in situations with non-Mormons have their son or daughter marry a Mormon in a temple wedding.

[lilwriter85]

I am sure that the Mormons are afraid that if people find out that they'll spend the rest of their lives chanting and watching B-movies while wearing head to toe white polyester and paying for the privilege that they'd have a harder time recruiting. Then again joining a religion that bars alcohol AND caffeine has got to be the dullest religion ever.

They must be awesome brainwashers, after all how do you keep people coming and performing this mundane routine every week? They should use Mormons to extract secrets from terrorists. After all, isn't the best way to brainwash the terrorist into believing that you're his new friend? If so then Mormons have definitely figured out what that secret is (as do Scientologists). Maybe this way they could at least contribute in some positive way to the world instead of building shiny temples with "keep out" signs on the doors.

There are things about the LDS church that look a bit appealing. One of the posters on the GOMI NieNie thread said that he/she liked the strong community aspect of LDS. I have noticed that too, but I agree some aspects of the religion are pretty dull. I'm not a huge alcohol drinker, but I love the occasional glass of wine. I drink green and white tea almost daily for health reasons and I also love the occasional diet soda. The Mormon advisement against R rated movies seems annoying for different reasons. I know some Mormons do watch R rated movies if they are war movies.

[Beeks]

Fascinating. Also not that much weirder than lots of other religious rituals, IMO.

I wonder of the identity of the "traitor" will be revealed. A few of my Mormon friends are really freaking out about this and I'm sure the church is pissed.

[lilwriter85]

I think they probably know who the "traitor" is.

[chopstix]

So, people growing up in the LDS faith have no idea what goes on inside the temple until they are actually there themselves for the endowment ceremony, correct? Aside from the baptisms for the dead, which I can see a kid as passing that off as normal and not odd, I would think that there has to be some people who go to their first endowment ceremony and freak out at how weird it is. Especially someone converting to LDS?

I know I would leave that ceremony with :shock: my eyes bugging out of my head. I am the type of person who likes to know what to expect and I think I would be really turned off if I went into that ceremony expecting something not quite so strange.

Or maybe that is just me?

[Beeks]

I think they probably know who the "traitor" is.

Really, how would they know?

[Beeks]

So, people growing up in the LDS faith have no idea what goes on inside the temple until they are actually there themselves for the endowment ceremony, correct? Aside from the baptisms for the dead, which I can see a kid as passing that off as normal and not odd, I would think that there has to be some people who go to their first endowment ceremony and freak out at how weird it is. Especially someone converting to LDS?

I know I would leave that ceremony with :shock: my eyes bugging out of my head. I am the type of person who likes to know what to expect and I think I would be really turned off if I went into that ceremony expecting something not quite so strange.

Or maybe that is just me?

Mormons have an impressive conversion rate but retention of new converts isn't great. I'm sure this is part of it (though you have to wait a year after converting to go through the temple, I believe).

[lilwriter85]

Really, how would they know?

I can see them doing intense interrogations to find the traitor and I can see someone ratting out the traitor. Does anyone know if they keep records of who attends Temple Endowment ceremonies?

[Witsec7]

So, people growing up in the LDS faith have no idea what goes on inside the temple until they are actually there themselves for the endowment ceremony, correct? Aside from the baptisms for the dead, which I can see a kid as passing that off as normal and not odd, I would think that there has to be some people who go to their first endowment ceremony and freak out at how weird it is. Especially someone converting to LDS?

I know I would leave that ceremony with :shock: my eyes bugging out of my head. I am the type of person who likes to know what to expect and I think I would be really turned off if I went into that ceremony expecting something not quite so strange.

Or maybe that is just me?

Years ago I worked with a woman who I shall call Sharon. She was the secy. of my Union local. At the age of 28 she was fearful that her biologic clock was running down and not a single suitor in sight. She also wanted to go back to college but had no means to pay for it. She did the expedient thing and went through a Mormon conversion. The stake paid for her to go to college, and lo and behold, 3months before graduation she was engaged. Sharon's marriage was sealed in the temple, she squirted out 3 kids in rapid succession. 3 months after she had her last child she filed for divorce and used her husbands tithes to establish his income for the purposes of support. He was a squirrelly type who was employed by an LDS operated business and had much difficulty pinning down payroll records. She did the next best thing, produced the tithe records.

[Beeks]

I can see them doing intense interrogations to find the traitor and I can see someone ratting out the traitor. Does anyone know if they keep records of who attends Temple Endowment ceremonies?

I think they do. If the traitor has half a brain s/he wouldn't tell anyone the plan.

Then again maybe s/he doesn't care about being outted. I've thought of doing something similar (converting and exposing) many times.

[Jessica]

Can someone clear this up. It was mentioned in the thread that some people go to the Temple several times a week. Does that mean that every time they go it is to represent some dead person who is not Mormon?

And when they go do they sit through the same cruddy movie and repetition of the process each and every time?

I can't imagine that many people have the time, energy or patience to do that more than once a month (if that much). Just watching the same movie over and over again would make me go batty.

1. Yes. The first time you go, it's for yourself. After that it's for the dead every time.

2. Yes. And you get the same old ladies giving you the death glare at the veil if you don't have the entire second token of the Melchizidek priesthood memorized. They get pretty huffy. So you've waited allllll this time to finally go sit in the peaceful Celestial room and relax, then some old biddy makes you feel like crap so you sit on the couch and stare down at your knees, red-faced. :P

[lilwriter85]

I think they do. If the traitor has half a brain s/he wouldn't tell anyone the plan.

Then again maybe s/he doesn't care about being outted. I've thought of doing something similar (converting and exposing) many times.

That is also a possibility. There are different situations the traitor could be in. They could be someone who has been Mormon all their lives and finally got fed up with stuff and decided to expose at larger extent. Ex-Mormons have talked about some of the temple stuff for years ,but a video actually shows some of the aspects as they are done.

[silverspoons]

Really, how would they know?

With the new push after with lowering the mission age lots of young kids are going through the temple. Not all want to go but it doesn't take much as an 18 year old to qualify. The 10% in't much since most kids are working part time jobs. The bishop asks a few questions, and it is easy to lie about how far you have gone with your girlfriend or if you ever had a few beers. I know plenty of kids who were not serious about going in and was just a matter of time with technology till these videos come out.

[SisiL78]

I think it would be hard for them to know exactly. Unless they see some indication of what date/time it is. But there are so many people. If the Romneys were indeed there with secret service maybe they can narrow it down and start questioning people... although it seemed like there were a ton of people there. I'd wonder if they'd want to show their fear of the situation by interrogating possibly hundreds of parishioners.

[lilwriter85]

I wonder if Zsu will do a posting about this video. I wouldn't be surprised if she did, she did post that cartoon the other day. A bit off topic, but Lori Nitwit is praising Ann Romney for admitting to being pro-life. Lori probably only likes that Mormon wimmin for being pro-life. Lori also said something that "neither of Bush wives admitted to being pro-life." I guess Lori didn't hear about Laura Bush being pro-choice.

[emily]

It seems as though at least one of the hidden cameras used for the video was worn on the wrist, and I believe there was probably one more additional camera as well. I bet the traitor went through a few sessions to get the footage to complete the video. I don't think the church would necessarily be able to figure out who was in all those sessions just based on the fact that all the faces are blurred out. Perhaps they could get some information from the baptisms scene, but I think that's the only part where we hear names being read.

Last I knew of the church, they didn't keep track of names of attendees, you're just required to show your recommend paper to the temple worker at the front door when you arrive. Things could be different now, I suppose, but they never used to do that. Hell, if they don't do it now, they will probably start soon, based on this video alone.

[Witsec7]

It seems as though at least one of the hidden cameras used for the video was worn on the wrist, and I believe there was probably one more additional camera as well. I bet the traitor went through a few sessions to get the footage to complete the video. I don't think the church would necessarily be able to figure out who was in all those sessions just based on the fact that all the faces are blurred out. Perhaps they could get some information from the baptisms scene, but I think that's the only part where we hear names being read.

Last I knew of the church, they didn't keep track of names of attendees, you're just required to show your recommend paper to the temple worker at the front door when you arrive. Things could be different now, I suppose, but they never used to do that. Hell, if they don't do it now, they will probably start soon, based on this video alone.

Yea it will be a new instruction from god, just like the modifications of the garment and AAs being accepted to the priesthood. :lol:

[SquirrelySquirrel]

The baptism talk inspired me go back and watch one of my favorite Bill Maher clips, where he unbaptizes Mitten's dead FIL, who was not religious and was posthumously baptized.. The whole clip is good, but the unbaptism starts about 3.5-4 mins in.

[shedemei]

How well are temple recommends checked? Are they difficult to fake?

[Jessica]

How well are temple recommends checked? Are they difficult to fake?

You go to your bishop and he asks a bunch of questions. They're all yes/no questions (some are, do you have a tesimony of Jesus Christ, do you sustain the current prophet/presidency/general authorities of the church, do you keep the word of wisdom, are you a full tithe payer, and so on. You can find the exact questions online). Then you go to the stake president and get asked the exact same questions. They sign a little card with your membership record number then when you go to the temple you give the person at the front desk your card and they scan it like a library card. The recommends need to be renewed every couple of years.

[Jessica]

Oh, once you've been through they ask if you wear your garments. Because it's totally normal for an almost-stranger to be questioning what underwear you have on. And if you're divorced you're asked if you masturbate or watch porn. Yep.

[Tee-Tee]

Is there a way you can contact the Mormon church to be sure your name doesn't land on the 'baptise me when I'm dead' list? Because that's just...wrong. That poor girl looked like she was being waterboarded.

I'm almost certainly on the list, although I'm in no way affiliated with the Mormon Church, due to the fact that my grandmother was a professional geneaologist and used their files extensively...I'd bet dollars to donuts I'm on a list somewhere, even if it'll be mighty dusty by the time a virgin (HA!) plunges for me.

No, with all due respect to those who do carry this faith, I do not believe that the after-death baptisms will effect me or my spirit in any way, I just find them bloody offensive--if I wanted to be baptised a Mormon, I'd do it on my own LIVING time.

In looking for the list experiencedd mentioned (by the way, hold onto your bra, there's a projected bacon shortage and that thing is gonna rise in price like bacon-y gold) I found that there was a kerfluffle over Elie Wiesel finding his name, his father's name, and his grandfather's name on a list of planned baptisms!

ETA: Erm...as well as the posthumous Anne Frank baptism and other Shoa victims, they've managed to baptise Hitler as well... :?

[Witsec7]

I'm almost certainly on the list, although I'm in no way affiliated with the Mormon Church, due to the fact that my grandmother was a professional geneaologist and used their files extensively...I'd bet dollars to donuts I'm on a list somewhere, even if it'll be mighty dusty by the time a virgin (HA!) plunges for me.

No, with all due respect to those who do carry this faith, I do not believe that the after-death baptisms will effect me or my spirit in any way, I just find them bloody offensive--if I wanted to be baptised a Mormon, I'd do it on my own LIVING time.

In looking for the list experiencedd mentioned (by the way, hold onto your bra, there's a projected bacon shortage and that thing is gonna rise in price like bacon-y gold) I found that there was a kerfluffle over Elie Wiesel finding his name, his father's name, and his grandfather's name on a list of planned baptisms!

ETA: Erm...as well as the posthumous Anne Frank baptism and other Shoa victims, they've managed to baptise Hitler as well... :?

TY on the bacon note, I'm sure I was one of the first to get it in my inbox :lol:

Back to the baptism bullshit. It seems that as an adult joining the LDS you must get dipped. And at the same time they will dip others against their will. I wish the fuck these folks would hear the dissonance. I don't want a fucking planet, I don't believe in your planet, or Jos. Smith's magic stick either, or the underwear. And I will keep pointing this shit out as long as you keep dipping folks without their permission.

[snarkbillie]

I heard that the way the baptism works is that it gives you a chance to change your mind beyond death. So, like if they baptized Ann Frank or your grandma or whatever basically it would give them the opportunity to convert after their death if they chose to. Doesn't make it any less creepy, but that's what I heard.

[Morton Fan]

You go to your bishop and he asks a bunch of questions. They're all yes/no questions (some are, do you have a tesimony of Jesus Christ, do you sustain the current prophet/presidency/general authorities of the church, do you keep the word of wisdom, are you a full tithe payer, and so on. You can find the exact questions online). Then you go to the stake president and get asked the exact same questions. They sign a little card with your membership record number then when you go to the temple you give the person at the front desk your card and they scan it like a library card. The recommends need to be renewed every couple of years.

Jessica, would you mind explaining more about the "sustaining" thing to me? The first time I stepped foot in an LDS church (had to for school choir), they did the whole "sustaining" thing and I was creeped out that everyone raised their hands and said stuff in unison. I promptly forgot about it until I read an article about LDS General Conference this year. Is it the same idea as the old "all in favor, say aye" thing? Does anyone ever NOT sustain someone in their callings, etc.? I'm curious about it.

I heard that the way the baptism works is that it gives you a chance to change your mind beyond death. So, like if they baptized Ann Frank or your grandma or whatever basically it would give them the opportunity to convert after their death if they chose to. Doesn't make it any less creepy, but that's what I heard.

Yes, this is true. Doesn't make it less offensive to me personally, but you're right about its purpose.