Sarah Maxwell: To every thing there is a season....

[gardenvarietycitizen]

They missed the Grand Canyon for busy work? These people do virtually nothing productive the entire year!!! They travel a bit and then don't even have the freedom to see the sights? Its not like they were going to tour a red light district, its the Grand Canyon for goodness sake!

They certainly do their utmost to attempt to imply that they're busy 24/7. I'm sure they have their lives scheduled to eternity and back, but it's a wide open question just what exactly they're DOING. They are in such a hurry all the time, for what exactly? None of them work outside the house, and they give the same talks again and again and again and AGAIN, even if they're making slight changes, there is no way on earth that is taking up all of their time to the point that they can't make a side trip on the road.

No, I think being "busy" and "productive" is an idol for them. They fetishize it. Why wake up at 7 when you can wake up at 5:30 just to be "industrious"?

Edit to add: You can see the same idea in their endless posts about how great it is to get away as a family together, spend time together as a family, be together for a week, etc etc effing ETC. That sort of talk makes sense for members of actually busy families who are always apart during the day working or studying and whatever else, but the Maxwells are together 24/7. They spend more time together on a daily basis than apart. But the "oh, time together!!" thing just works for the "look how busy we are" image.

But don't you think that just about any other kid, upon hearing a statement that so clearly contradicts what they've been taught, would think to QUESTION why? "Why is the guide saying the cave formations took millions of years, Daddy? Didn't you tell us that the earth is only 6,000 years old? Why do other people think it's older?" I know my daughter wouldn't have taken an answer that amounted to "because god/I said so" at face value. She would have pursued the matter until she was able to form an opinion based on the knowledge she'd gained, through reading, questioning and other forms of research.

Indeed. I know that personally, if I got some vague answers or clear messages that "I don't want to discuss that" I'd outwardly give up and smile in agreement and let it go, but have it on the list of things to go look up at the library later on!! Finding the library was heaven, what, I can "ask" any sort of embarrassing or awkward questions without having to let anyone know about it? I can read around all sides of some issue and find out what the controversy is? Sweet!!! :D

Of course the Maxwell kids don't have access to the library... yet another reason to thank heavens I am not one of them.

[library_youth]

I love how Sarah wrote "it was decided not to go" as if the whole family had a say. Just tell the truth and say "Dad decided we weren't going."

[Luvchild]

I feel so sad she didn't get to see the Grand Canyon. It is the one of most beautiful places on earth. Seriously, Steve Maxwell is an evil, evil man tormenting and torturing his daughter.

[fundiefan]

Lately, I think Sarah is teetering on a precipice. She is trying so hard to bury herself in god and bible verses. It's even more sad than usual to watch.

Their lives all suck because Steve is an insecure little boy who decided the only way he could get anyone to pay attention to him would be to force them.

[Bookworm]

Every time anyone mentions Sarah Maxwell I want to cry. I don't know why I feel more sympathy for her than I do for other stuck SAHDs, but for some reason she reminds me of me, only far, far worse off, and I was suicidal for a while. For a long time I was so brainwashed that I honestly thought I was pretty happy, but when I woke up the feeling of being robbed was indescribably painful, and like I said my life has been MUCH better than hers. Sarah, if you ever read this, those lurking feelings of doubt/wondering if there is more/discontent should be heeded. There are many people out here who would help you, especially with just listening to you, and pushing into the nastiness of acknowledging pain is COMPLETELY WORTH IT. You have no idea how wonderful life can be - and yes, finding a man who loves you is beyond amazing. Too much of life has passed you by already - come and find happiness. It's not selfish, it's good.

[jaynie]

Every time anyone mentions Sarah Maxwell I want to cry. I don't know why I feel more sympathy for her than I do for other stuck SAHDs, but for some reason she reminds me of me, only far, far worse off, and I was suicidal for a while. For a long time I was so brainwashed that I honestly thought I was pretty happy, but when I woke up the feeling of being robbed was indescribably painful, and like I said my life has been MUCH better than hers. Sarah, if you ever read this, those lurking feelings of doubt/wondering if there is more/discontent should be heeded. There are many people out here who would help you, especially with just listening to you, and pushing into the nastiness of acknowledging pain is COMPLETELY WORTH IT. You have no idea how wonderful life can be - and yes, finding a man who loves you is beyond amazing. Too much of life has passed you by already - come and find happiness. It's not selfish, it's good.

I know, right? I don't have the experience of going through that (and I'm sorry you have yourself), but even without that, it's hard to feel anything but sadness for Sarah. The Maxwells are SO extreme, even by fundie standards, and she is SO isolated, and it's been SO long, and been denied the one thing she's been told is her role in life, and probably won't ever get married because courtship doesn't work at the best of times, but is bound to fail when you'd need to find a man just. like. Steve. for her to marry, and in the meantime she can't even have fun or pursue an education or anything. She's like the poster girl for why patriarchy is bad for women.

Oh god, now I'm depressed. I don't think there is a person on FJ who wouldn't help Sarah if they could, if she wanted out.

[Sister Mozz]

Every time anyone mentions Sarah Maxwell I want to cry. I don't know why I feel more sympathy for her than I do for other stuck SAHDs, but for some reason she reminds me of me, only far, far worse off, and I was suicidal for a while. For a long time I was so brainwashed that I honestly thought I was pretty happy, but when I woke up the feeling of being robbed was indescribably painful, and like I said my life has been MUCH better than hers. Sarah, if you ever read this, those lurking feelings of doubt/wondering if there is more/discontent should be heeded. There are many people out here who would help you, especially with just listening to you, and pushing into the nastiness of acknowledging pain is COMPLETELY WORTH IT. You have no idea how wonderful life can be - and yes, finding a man who loves you is beyond amazing. Too much of life has passed you by already - come and find happiness. It's not selfish, it's good.

I'm so glad you got beyond the pain and depression, Bookworm. People are individuals and need to be able to think and behave and explore as such. We all hope Sarah can be free someday!

Titus2.com, run by Steve Maxwell, is a cult.

[MarthaMarcyMayMarlen]

I feel so sorry for sarah maxwell. i hope someday she just runs away.

[sparkles]

I feel sorry not only for Sarah and the girls, but for the boys as well. How long do you think it will be until Joseph finds another candidate for help meet (and you just know Steve will be vetting this down to the cellular level). What's so magical about marriage that makes you incapable of living on your own beforehand? So Joseph's house sits empty for fuck know how long while he continues to live under Steve's thumb. It's got to feel like salt in a raw wound. The reversal boys' prospects are somewhat better than the girls' but not by much.

Sarah, I fear, will never be free. Anna and Mary, on the other hand, have never known life outside of the cloister and may actually think they've got it made. And honestly, if there's no way out for them, I hope they're happy. It would be hell on earth to have doubts and not believe you've got a way out.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

sparkles has me thinking, now - we all know and read about hordes of Stay At Home Daughters (because a girl needs a leader, first her father and then her husband), but what's the situation with sons in non-Maxwellian families? Somehow I had the impression that usually they WOULD be allowed some more freedom and might even be baching it in their future houses before courting and bringing home the missus.

The Maxwells are just way the heck out there. In a more "standard" fundie family, wouldn't Joseph be allowed to live in Chez Beige alone, fixing it up and otherwise working hard at his own bootstrappy self-employed business, thereby impressing potential courtees? Or is the Maxwell Way more common than I thought?

How about the VF crowd, what's the situation with the various Phillips boys (sons of Doug Phillips who is a tool)?

[mirele]

sparkles has me thinking, now - we all know and read about hordes of Stay At Home Daughters (because a girl needs a leader, first her father and then her husband), but what's the situation with sons in non-Maxwellian families? Somehow I had the impression that usually they WOULD be allowed some more freedom and might even be baching it in their future houses before courting and bringing home the missus.

The Maxwells are just way the heck out there. In a more "standard" fundie family, wouldn't Joseph be allowed to live in Chez Beige alone, fixing it up and otherwise working hard at his own bootstrappy self-employed business, thereby impressing potential courtees? Or is the Maxwell Way more common than I thought?

How about the VF crowd, what's the situation with the various Phillips boys (sons of Doug Phillips who is a tool)?

Are Doug Phillips the Tool's kids old enough to be on their own?

Also, I believe that Daddy Botkin (another tool) has had all of his children (male/female) living at home until the day they tie the knot. Of course, we know that AE and S will be there forever because Geoff, like Steve, can't bear to give them up.

Free your daughters, Geoff Botkin and Steve Maxwell!

ETA: My father wanted me to get out and live on my own and not be dependent on anyone. This is a very good thing, because as much as I love my father, he's now got early stage Alzheimer's and my brother cares for him. Dad can't make decisions for me; I have to make them for myself. Yeah, it's scary, but, guess what--my dad knew this was going to happen and prepared me for this day.

[Bookworm]

I know, right? I don't have the experience of going through that (and I'm sorry you have yourself), but even without that, it's hard to feel anything but sadness for Sarah. The Maxwells are SO extreme, even by fundie standards, and she is SO isolated, and it's been SO long, and been denied the one thing she's been told is her role in life, and probably won't ever get married because courtship doesn't work at the best of times, but is bound to fail when you'd need to find a man just. like. Steve. for her to marry, and in the meantime she can't even have fun or pursue an education or anything. She's like the poster girl for why patriarchy is bad for women.

exactly. She must feel horrible whenever a real emotion gets through. So sad.

I'm so glad you got beyond the pain and depression, Bookworm. People are individuals and need to be able to think and behave and explore as such. We all hope Sarah can be free someday!

Yes, and I hope that she can find the courage for that someday. I think maybe the hardest thing is admitting your parents were wrong, acted selfishly in some ways, and that you still love them but have to go against their wishes no matter what. It feels horrible at first, but Sarah and other daughters, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT. It's not rebellion, it's growing up.

[Sister Mozz]

Yes, and I hope that she can find the courage for that someday. I think maybe the hardest thing is admitting your parents were wrong, acted selfishly in some ways, and that you still love them but have to go against their wishes no matter what. It feels horrible at first, but Sarah and other daughters, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT. It's not rebellion, it's growing up.

I know exactly how it is. I've been a SAHD and sister-mom. It takes a lot of pain and a lot of boldness to look your situation square in the face - because we weren't raised to do that about anything! - and make the changes you need to make. I'm just glad I am mentally and emotionally on the other side because it was really hard for me, too. Freedom is a sweet thing.

[Bookworm]

I know exactly how it is. I've been a SAHD and sister-mom. It takes a lot of pain and a lot of boldness to look your situation square in the face - because we weren't raised to do that about anything! - and make the changes you need to make. I'm just glad I am mentally and emotionally on the other side because it was really hard for me, too. Freedom is a sweet thing.

Wow :bow-yellow: Yeah, that takes a lot of guts to come out of your situation, congrats! And yes, freedom is so awesome.

[FloraDoraDolly]

sparkles has me thinking, now - we all know and read about hordes of Stay At Home Daughters (because a girl needs a leader, first her father and then her husband), but what's the situation with sons in non-Maxwellian families? Somehow I had the impression that usually they WOULD be allowed some more freedom and might even be baching it in their future houses before courting and bringing home the missus.

The Maxwells are just way the heck out there. In a more "standard" fundie family, wouldn't Joseph be allowed to live in Chez Beige alone, fixing it up and otherwise working hard at his own bootstrappy self-employed business, thereby impressing potential courtees? Or is the Maxwell Way more common than I thought?

Let's see... There's John David Duggar, Zach and Lawson Bates, all the Arndt sons. I don't know their names or ages, but some of the young men in those bluegrass-gospel families look old enough to be out on their own. So based on anecdotal evidence, I'd say the boys are stuck at home every bit as much as their sisters. They might be allowed to go out and mow lawns or tow cars, but at the end of the day they have to come home for family Bible time and sleep in a room with their little brothers.

[SisiL78]

To me, this entire Quiverfull and fundy movements are driven by men whose egos could not be stroked by the secular world. They needed power and acknowledgement but couldn't cut it in the corporate world so they turned inward towards their families to get the fear, respect, adulation, and ego stroking that they couldn't acquire elsewhere. And why would you want to let those adoring children who fear you and treat you like a god out of your sight? If they are no longer under your control then you don't have anyone to adore you!

I'd say that even the married Maxwell boys are under the thumb of their father. Their businesses, which probably only provide them with a subsistence living, rely on Titus2 in one way or another. And I'm going to bet that Steve is somehow propping them up financially and/or owns some part of each of their endeavors (like being the owner of their equipment).

I've said it before that I think they pay virtually nothing in taxes... probably not even sales taxes on their books and chore packs. And, if I had to guess I'd say that the homes they own are really Steve's property and he rents them out to them. And I wouldn't be shocked if he's not getting HUD money to do so. I wouldn't be shocked if they all aren't playing the welfare game while claiming to be anti-government aid.

That being said even the married ones have little choice but to stay on the compound and worship at the feet of Steve. He's made sure that they have kids, and other responsibilities, to tie them down. They can't behave like other young men and just leave. I'm sure John will be married off soon enough too. There are more fundy girls out there (and many of them very desperate) than fundy men. There is certainly some lonely 22 year old "spinster" out there waiting for someone to court her and whose parents will see nothing wrong with the Maxwells. Its preferable if her family is poor and sees her upkeep as a burden rather than the Duggar model where the older "girls" are cheap live in nannies.

[LucySnowe]

They missed the Grand Canyon for busy work? These people do virtually nothing productive the entire year!!! They travel a bit and then don't even have the freedom to see the sights?

My money's on a grown-up version of 'we're going to stop the kids from doing things they enjoy on their birthdays in order to prevent them from becoming too selfish and self-centred'. Daddy gets to control whether they see the Grand Canyon, and they have to shut up and agree with him.

[Guest Anonymous]

My money's on a grown-up version of 'we're going to stop the kids from doing things they enjoy on their birthdays in order to prevent them from becoming too selfish and self-centred'. Daddy gets to control whether they see the Grand Canyon, and they have to shut up and agree with him.

I agree. They still get 'consequences' when they fail to behave as he wishes. Christ knows what will happen if he starts with the early stages of dementia like his parents and continues to punish them and they continue to submit to it.

[TeaELSee]

I hope you will have paitience with me! I have been lurking on this board for a few weeks and had never heard of a SAHD until then. I feel terrible for these young woman. Sister Mozz I am so glad you are no longer living that life and came out the other side. I didn't know members here have lived through some of this. :(

My question is how or are the Maxwells are aligned with the Duggars? I looked at their blog, how old is Sarah and how can they afford driving an RV around the country? Do they get paid to speak?

[LilMissMetaphor]

This reminds me of the old joke:

Why are Baptists (or fill in the blank with your favorite fundy of choice) opposed to stand-up sex?

Because it might lead to dancing.

[Guest Anonymous]

I hope you will have paitience with me! I have been lurking on this board for a few weeks and had never heard of a SAHD until then. I feel terrible for these young woman. Sister Mozz I am so glad you are no longer living that life and came out the other side. I didn't know members here have lived through some of this. :(

My question is how or are the Maxwells are aligned with the Duggars? I looked at their blog, how old is Sarah and how can they afford driving an RV around the country? Do they get paid to speak?

Welcome. :)

Lots of info in Steve's own words:

http://www.titus2.com/about-the-maxwells.html

The Maxwells sell products and receive love-offerings from their sheeple, amongst their many 'talents'. The Duggars have bought and promoted their homeschooling and scheduling shit and have, in turn, invited them to Duggar events.

Now that the FJ search function is aligned with Google, you should be able to spend many happy hours following the gazzillion rabbit trails of info here.

[Sister Mozz]

I hope you will have paitience with me! I have been lurking on this board for a few weeks and had never heard of a SAHD until then. I feel terrible for these young woman. Sister Mozz I am so glad you are no longer living that life and came out the other side. I didn't know members here have lived through some of this. :(

Thank you, and welcome! There are actually many who have a similar background here, which is part of what gives authenticity to our concerns. We're not impartial observers but survivors who want to see the best for these other women and families!

[Guest Anonymous]

As an aside, there's another great advert for Joseph's 'website design' course right there on the "About Us" page.

Something else to think about, Steve. :mrgreen:

[Sobeknofret]

Are Doug Phillips the Tool's kids old enough to be on their own?

Joshua Titus is, and I think Justice is getting very close (17-18ish) as is the oldest girl Liberty. I'm surprised no one has tried to arrange a marriage between a Botkin and a Phillips yet. I think there's too much of an age gap between Joshua and Anna Sofia or Elizabeth, but Liberty is about the right age for a Botkin husband.

[SisiL78]

As an aside, there's another great advert for Joseph's 'website design' course right there on the "About Us" page.

Something else to think about, Steve. :mrgreen:

Let's make bets on how long until Steve fixes that mistake! We all know he reads the Maxwell related threads.

That's what makes the Maxwells extra creepy. They claim to not care what we think and to have disdain for us. But, then its pretty obvious that Steve reads here and responds in his own creepy way.