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Rant of Rage: People Can't be Racist Against Whites


Anxious Girl

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I think probably every person, regardless of their color, can come up with at least a few negative racial experiences.

The difference is that, in the US, white males overwhelmingly have the power. White people *are* the power. We are the dominant culture and others are secondary/less than by default. So prejudice to white people is an occasional uncomfortable moment, or a one-time feeling of righteous anger that someone else was given an advantage. It is an aberration in our lives and not the story of our lives. That is an important thing to keep in mind. How angry, scared, sad, etc did it make you feel when X happened? So imagine if that happened all the fucking time and had been happening since you were an infant? Imagine if laws and power structures encouraged it? As for racial preservation, I disagree with being mean to someone over their choice of mate. I understand the arguments, but I disagree with them. I know there is pressure in my ethnoreligious group to marry within so you have Jewish babies and begin building again after all the people lost in the Holocaust, pogroms, etc. But I think you should marry whoever is right for you because living a happy life is the best revenge. If having 100% Jewish (or whatever) babies is important to you, then I respect that but I hate the judgment on people who don't find it important. Personally I will not apologize for marrying the person I love.

This is what I was trying to say. I should have been less of an asshat in my OP, and explain that I was talking about American culture.

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I'm wondering if age and source of education enters into this at all.

I went to a workshop about 20 years ago, taught by a man who was not a very good teacher -- he had that "I am the expert and you have nothing to contribute" manner.

He asked us to write down our definition of racism -- most wrote that racism is prejudice based on race, or something like that.

No, he told us, there was an official new definition ( he even cited a particular university, but I can't remember which, now), and that "racism," with no adjective or other specifics, now meant that those in power were holding down those of other races.

Those who thought that, perhaps, it might be clearer to refer to that as "institutionalized" or "societal" or "power-based" racism were scornfully told they were wrong. The new definition had come down from (you should pardon the expression!) the ivory tower, and that was that.

So perhaps some of the younger people here, depending on where they went to school, were, in fact, given "racism" as the term for what those in power do to others based on race. And some of us older folks were taught it means "prejudice based on race, " or sussed that out just by looking at the word.

I certainly agree that institutionalized racism, in the US, is generally coming from white people, not towards them.

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I think my jaw just dropped at the idea that there isn't institutionalized racism in America. I'm mixed race (part white, part pacific islander) and I've seen it from my dad's family to my very white mother - in a hotel in Tennessee, for the record. All of them are American citizens.

Just because you don't experience it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Even in America.

Did someone say that? If so, they must have edited it out, or I missed it reading too fast.

That would be a ridiculous thing to say, I agree.

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Well, from my POV, usually when this discussion happens in English people seem to forget that the entire thing ends up framed in the sensibilities of "English-speaking countries" (in the sense that the majority are monolingual English speaking) and in the vast majority (?) of those, yeah, white is the majority and socially dominant race - meaning that for most participants in the discussion, they are completely socialized into societies where white people are dominant at the national and media level, where "the default human" is white.

But if you go to non-English parts of the internet, that's hardly true, and so of course the debate takes a completely different direction. Plenty of the more odious forums I'm on, no one gives a shit about white people (because what? no one cares about them because if they live here they're just a bunch of weird expats maybe and can't follow normal society anyway because they dont' speak the language or if they do they have horrible accents and bad handwriting, they'll go home eventually anyway because they come from rich countries - unlike people from poor countries who might take our jerbs, we have other racism for them) but meanwhile what is this "Asian" thing? Hell no there's country X and country Y and country Z and never the twain shall meet (but German vs. French? meh, buncha white opera types or some kinda thing I slept through that part of school, I dunno, it's all Europe whatev) so how on earth can Americans imply it's the same race? What? No!

In English people will usually apologize for "oh I didn't mean to imply we were all American" but they still go on about "POC" and concepts that are still very much rooted in a certain geographical and linguistic space.

And it completely ignores the fact that growing up as a minority is its own special thing worthy of consideration, that growing up as a minority of background is X is VERY MUCH NOT THE SAME THING as growing up a majority member citizen of country X (whether that person later moves abroad or not).

Heck, just take a look at a college campus and the interactions of student clubs. Very often the "XXX student association" made up of mostly foreign students from country X and speaking language X and sharing nostalgic memories of growing up with the pop culture of country X doesn't have much mixing with the "X-American student association" where they mostly speak English (as it's their native language) and even less affiliation with a "XYZ student association" where X, Y, and Z are countries where people of that background kinda look similar and so share oppression in discrimination (which is a legitimate thing) and that's about it. Because the "XXX student association" and the "YYY student association" would not remotely identify as sharing a background, despite what X-Americans and Y-Americans a few generations in might think.

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I'm wondering if age and source of education enters into this at all.

I went to a workshop about 20 years ago, taught by a man who was not a very good teacher -- he had that "I am the expert and you have nothing to contribute" manner.

He asked us to write down our definition of racism -- most wrote that racism is prejudice based on race, or something like that.

No, he told us, there was an official new definition ( he even cited a particular university, but I can't remember which, now), and that "racism," with no adjective or other specifics, now meant that those in power were holding down those of other races.

Those who thought that, perhaps, it might be clearer to refer to that as "institutionalized" or "societal" or "power-based" racism were scornfully told they were wrong. The new definition had come down from (you should pardon the expression!) the ivory tower, and that was that.

So perhaps some of the younger people here, depending on where they went to school, were, in fact, given "racism" as the term for what those in power do to others based on race. And some of us older folks were taught it means "prejudice based on race, " or sussed that out just by looking at the word.

I certainly agree that institutionalized racism, in the US, is generally coming from white people, not towards them.

I'm leaning more towards source of education (and maybe class?) than age. I'm in my mid-20s and hold the "prejudice based on race" definition as well. However, I am a white person who has been bullied based on race, so that may affect the definition I hold as well.

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I'm wondering if age and source of education enters into this at all.

I went to a workshop about 20 years ago, taught by a man who was not a very good teacher -- he had that "I am the expert and you have nothing to contribute" manner.

He asked us to write down our definition of racism -- most wrote that racism is prejudice based on race, or something like that.

No, he told us, there was an official new definition ( he even cited a particular university, but I can't remember which, now), and that "racism," with no adjective or other specifics, now meant that those in power were holding down those of other races.

Those who thought that, perhaps, it might be clearer to refer to that as "institutionalized" or "societal" or "power-based" racism were scornfully told they were wrong. The new definition had come down from (you should pardon the expression!) the ivory tower, and that was that.

So perhaps some of the younger people here, depending on where they went to school, were, in fact, given "racism" as the term for what those in power do to others based on race. And some of us older folks were taught it means "prejudice based on race, " or sussed that out just by looking at the word.

I certainly agree that institutionalized racism, in the US, is generally coming from white people, not towards them.

Yes to all the bolded applies to me! The seconded bolded is what I was taught in high school, and now I have to re-educate myself on the issue/topic.

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I'm wondering if age and source of education enters into this at all.

I went to a workshop about 20 years ago, taught by a man who was not a very good teacher -- he had that "I am the expert and you have nothing to contribute" manner.

He asked us to write down our definition of racism -- most wrote that racism is prejudice based on race, or something like that.

No, he told us, there was an official new definition ( he even cited a particular university, but I can't remember which, now), and that "racism," with no adjective or other specifics, now meant that those in power were holding down those of other races.

Those who thought that, perhaps, it might be clearer to refer to that as "institutionalized" or "societal" or "power-based" racism were scornfully told they were wrong. The new definition had come down from (you should pardon the expression!) the ivory tower, and that was that.

So perhaps some of the younger people here, depending on where they went to school, were, in fact, given "racism" as the term for what those in power do to others based on race. And some of us older folks were taught it means "prejudice based on race, " or sussed that out just by looking at the word.

I certainly agree that institutionalized racism, in the US, is generally coming from white people, not towards them.

I would have also wrote down the same thing thoughtful, so yes, some of this could be an age gap. Racism was was prejudice based on race, never got the updated memo.

Yet even without the awareness of the expanded definition, I have certainly never denied there is institutionalized racism in the US that goes hand and glove with power. Institutionalized racism requires effort from everyone to dismantle. And individual racism/prejudice, no matter how much we try to sanitize it, is a problem individuals have to dismantle as well.

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Anyway, FWIW, I think the main question, whatever country you're in, and whatever background you have, when it comes to the street (and so snap judgements of others) the question is always, do you get to represent only yourself? Or are you forced to be the representative of some "group" you belong to?

Meaning, when you fuck up, do you only damage yourself? Or do you have to worry about taking down others? Making their lives harder?

When you listen to some crime on the news, do you worry "I hope it's not a member of my group" because you worry that will make your life harder?

This XKCD very much says it all, to me:

http://xkcd.com/385/

That is about misogyny, which works the same exact way, but it applies to any socially non-favored group. The freedom to represent only your own individual self is HUUUUGE, and that si something that members of non-favored groups don't have.

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Anyway, FWIW, I think the main question, whatever country you're in, and whatever background you have, when it comes to the street (and so snap judgements of others) the question is always, do you get to represent only yourself? Or are you forced to be the representative of some "group" you belong to?

Meaning, when you fuck up, do you only damage yourself? Or do you have to worry about taking down others? Making their lives harder?

When you listen to some crime on the news, do you worry "I hope it's not a member of my group" because you worry that will make your life harder?

This XKCD very much says it all, to me:

http://xkcd.com/385/

That is about misogyny, which works the same exact way, but it applies to any socially non-favored group. The freedom to represent only your own individual self is HUUUUGE, and that si something that members of non-favored groups don't have.

This is exactly it. When I was younger, I felt that everyone else got to wear whatever hat they wanted, but I had to make sure that mine looked the best because I already knew what stereotypes surrounded me. Also, I learned that racism was prejudice based on race in school, but I changed my view of that pretty quickly. FWIW I only finished public education a few years ago. My views changed based on reading and just my own experiences.

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A few weeks ago I discovered a Greek-Canadian leading a charge in an Ontario public school to have his kids dismissed from sex ed and classes that discussed sexual orientation. Not gonna lie, I was banging my head on my desk and groaning "My people, my people". Others are going to look at this freak as some kind of representation of what Diaspora Greeks think, and dammit, I think he should have thought about that before he opened his big mouth. I am usually the last to say you owe sacrificing your hapiness to the group, but try not to bring disgrace to it either. The sad fact is that people will often take the behavior of one and extrapolate the behavior of all from there.

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A few weeks ago I discovered a Greek-Canadian leading a charge in an Ontario public school to have his kids dismissed from sex ed and classes that discussed sexual orientation. Not gonna lie, I was banging my head on my desk and groaning "My people, my people". Others are going to look at this freak as some kind of representation of what Diaspora Greeks think, and dammit, I think he should have thought about that before he opened his big mouth. I am usually the last to say you owe sacrificing your hapiness to the group, but try not to bring disgrace to it either. The sad fact is that people will often take the behavior of one and extrapolate the behavior of all from there.

...and the problem is with those generalizing, absolutely. But the fact is generalization happens for some people and not others, and that's an issue.

Anytime you catch a whiff of "Those people" in rhetoric you gotta be suspicious. "They're not like me, it's those Other people..."

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Yes to all the bolded applies to me! The seconded bolded is what I was taught in high school, and now I have to re-educate myself on the issue/topic.

Well, language evolves, and, despite the fact that this definition seems to be one that didn't come naturally, but from academia, it did sensitize me to being careful about the word, so I would not offend or startle those who only knew that definition.

If that's the definition in your mind, it would be bizarre to hear someone say "I am a white American and have been hurt by racism directed against me."

So, I tend to use "bigotry," "prejudice" or "hatred," rather than "racism," when talking about an individual's assumption that someone different from them is lesser.

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Thank you for this! :clap:

A while ago I had to take a connecting flight from the US. I met a very nice mexican woman, who had light brown hair, pale skin and green eyes. The security officers asked her some questions in English and got upset when she couldn't answer. She told me later that the security officers could not believe her first language was Spanish, and were very surprised when she showed them her passport. I agree with you, it is problematic to think that "Hispanic" is a racial designation.

I have heard of similar encounters like that. My mom worked with a white Mexican back in the late 90s. He told my mom about an incident in which he spoke to his son in Spanish at a restaurant. The people at the table next to him said "How can a white man speak Spanish?" He then told the people that not all Spanish speakers are mixed race and that many people of different races speak Spanish. When the first season of 16 and Pregnant came out, I used to post on the twop thread for that show and one of the dads on the show Josh is Hispanic(likely mestizo or castizo). The myspace links of several of the moms and dads were posted and Josh was listed as Hispanic/Latino. I remember one poster saying that she would have never thought Josh was Hispanic because he was light skinned. Julie Gonzalo who I mentioned in my previous post is from Argentina. She made the comment in an interview that is unlikely that she will ever play a Hispanic character on American TV, because the main focus when casting Hispanic characters is to cast people with dark hair and skin.

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I fully acknowledge, though I have no way of personally understanding (since I'm Caucasian), that racism against dark-skinned people happens. I've seen it happen and I find it repulsive and I counter it whenever I can (because arguing with stupid is futile). I sympathize. I even empathize in my heart, though my empathy is usually rejected because "how could I know?" I accept that. I even, in my not-a-person-of-color way understand that. I've had experiences where I've been rejected or looked down on for some unknown reason, so I believe I *do* have at least a legitimate shred of sympathy.

I feel positively ashamed at the way Christianity (at least some strains of it) has legitimized and even institutionalized putting anyone for any reason into a defensive, socially inferior role. It pisses me off that it still happens today (though some might argue that my righteous indignation is nothing but a talking head because I'm white and therefore haven't experienced racism first-hand).

I get it. I do. and I'm actually with you.

.... and I'm also tired of taking lumps because my skin is fair (my forebears were Ohioans and they opposed slavery from the outset, so that's not in my history).

I get it!!! I do!!! Black folks have been treated abysmally in the US!!! I don't justify or condone a single instance of it. it was and is today still beyond horrible!!! I also get that i don't completely understand (though I was raised in an abusive family, so in a way i do know what it is to be targeted for no good reason - but I also know, based on previous conversations and relationships, that some persons of color don't consider that experience to be enough to identify with racism).

so I go into a McDonalds and the order-taker turns her head when I approach the counter. The one who gave me my food turned her back while sliding the tray my way. The customer behind me was seated first in a restaurant even though he said, "she was here first." I had my lunch in my hand while starting my break at work (the lunch was on a plate, so it was clear that it was my lunch) and a customer asked me a question. He then proceeded to ask a couple more questions whose answers were easy to determine himself if he would have read the product labels, which is all I did. I went to get my drink and purse and he found me again (and there were other, obvious employees working) and had to ask another question about the ingredients in a certain juice. I asked a cashier to page customer service to answer his questions. Or how 'bout the time I had what I thought was a friendly conversation with another family at Toys R Us and we discussed what we were buying and I said that I needed crayons but hadn't run across that section. A man in this family said, "oh, they're far away, they've over in that corner over there." I didn't believe him, but I had Christmas shopping to do and thought I'd look around, anyhow - and sure enough in that corner no crayons were found. When that family and I met again, I asked where he'd found his crayons and the woman said, "did you send her on a goose chase?" .... and then there's the "slow-down" when you're trying to get some place and *huh* a person just then happens to go into a reverie and start walking very slowly right in front of you where you can't pass them. Or the having to ask a sales clerk a bazillion questions about a product. "What kind of fabric is this?" "Where was it made?" "Is it this year?" "Is it last year?" "How many people wear this?" "Do supermodels wear this?" ""When did they wear it?" "What magazines did they wear it in?"

Like I said, though I'm sympathetic and I'm fine when my daughters date non-Caucasian men..... I'm tired of taking the freaking lumps for things I didn't do.

Lena Johnson's, It's the Little Things is a good read about this mutual frustration- and addresses things like the slow-down and hair-shaking (an annoying white women's gesture)... the little things.

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I fully acknowledge, though I have no way of personally understanding (since I'm Caucasian), that racism against dark-skinned people happens. I've seen it happen and I find it repulsive and I counter it whenever I can (because arguing with stupid is futile). I sympathize. I even empathize in my heart, though my empathy is usually rejected because "how could I know?" I accept that. I even, in my not-a-person-of-color way understand that. I've had experiences where I've been rejected or looked down on for some unknown reason, so I believe I *do* have at least a legitimate shred of sympathy.

I feel positively ashamed at the way Christianity (at least some strains of it) has legitimized and even institutionalized putting anyone for any reason into a defensive, socially inferior role. It pisses me off that it still happens today (though some might argue that my righteous indignation is nothing but a talking head because I'm white and therefore haven't experienced racism first-hand).

I get it. I do. and I'm actually with you.

.... and I'm also tired of taking lumps because my skin is fair (my forebears were Ohioans and they opposed slavery from the outset, so that's not in my history).

I get it!!! I do!!! Black folks have been treated abysmally in the US!!! I don't justify or condone a single instance of it. it was and is today still beyond horrible!!! I also get that i don't completely understand (though I was raised in an abusive family, so in a way i do know what it is to be targeted for no good reason - but I also know, based on previous conversations and relationships, that some persons of color don't consider that experience to be enough to identify with racism).

so I go into a McDonalds and the order-taker turns her head when I approach the counter. The one who gave me my food turned her back while sliding the tray my way. The customer behind me was seated first in a restaurant even though he said, "she was here first." I had my lunch in my hand while starting my break at work (the lunch was on a plate, so it was clear that it was my lunch) and a customer asked me a question. He then proceeded to ask a couple more questions whose answers were easy to determine himself if he would have read the product labels, which is all I did. I went to get my drink and purse and he found me again (and there were other, obvious employees working) and had to ask another question about the ingredients in a certain juice. I asked a cashier to page customer service to answer his questions. Or how 'bout the time I had what I thought was a friendly conversation with another family at Toys R Us and we discussed what we were buying and I said that I needed crayons but hadn't run across that section. A man in this family said, "oh, they're far away, they've over in that corner over there." I didn't believe him, but I had Christmas shopping to do and thought I'd look around, anyhow - and sure enough in that corner no crayons were found. When that family and I met again, I asked where he'd found his crayons and the woman said, "did you send her on a goose chase?" .... and then there's the "slow-down" when you're trying to get some place and *huh* a person just then happens to go into a reverie and start walking very slowly right in front of you where you can't pass them. Or the having to ask a sales clerk a bazillion questions about a product. "What kind of fabric is this?" "Where was it made?" "Is it this year?" "Is it last year?" "How many people wear this?" "Do supermodels wear this?" ""When did they wear it?" "What magazines did they wear it in?"

Like I said, though I'm sympathetic and I'm fine when my daughters date non-Caucasian men..... I'm tired of taking the freaking lumps for things I didn't do.

Lena Johnson's, It's the Little Things is a good read about this mutual frustration- and addresses things like the slow-down and hair-shaking (an annoying white women's gesture)... the little things.

I can't tell if this is serious or not so I'll read it over a few more times before I rip it to shreds.

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I can't tell if this is serious or not so I'll read it over a few more times before I rip it to shreds.

Ummm, yeah, I have re-read it a few times and not sure what to make of it. I'll wait for your thoughts.

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The US has economic discrimination. We tend to lump people of different races into different economic groups. I am of a European mutt. My family was poor growing up. I was frustrated that people with other skin colors with the same economic background as me got scholarships but I did not because I was white. I was not privileged as a poor white child. It was counted against me for higher learning. But, I dont consider it racism. I consider it ignorance.

We discriminate agains people with a different economical status then us. We see them as inferior. We do lump racism in that as well. But, I think overall, the biggest discrimination in the US right now has to do with money.

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The US has economic discrimination. We tend to lump people of different races into different economic groups. I am of a European mutt. My family was poor growing up. I was frustrated that people with other skin colors with the same economic background as me got scholarships but I did not because I was white. I was not privileged as a poor white child. It was counted against me for higher learning. But, I dont consider it racism. I consider it ignorance.

We discriminate agains people with a different economical status then us. We see them as inferior. We do lump racism in that as well. But, I think overall, the biggest discrimination in the US right now has to do with money.

That is also a huge problem. I know people who have been in those situations. The book Dixie's Forgotten People covered some of the same issues of poor whites being overlooked for certain things.

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I can't tell if this is serious or not so I'll read it over a few more times before I rip it to shreds.

I'm joining the head scratching. Currently I'll chalk it up to either poor writing or poor reading comprehension due to Chardonnay.

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The US has economic discrimination. We tend to lump people of different races into different economic groups. I am of a European mutt. My family was poor growing up. I was frustrated that people with other skin colors with the same economic background as me got scholarships but I did not because I was white. I was not privileged as a poor white child. It was counted against me for higher learning. But, I dont consider it racism. I consider it ignorance.

We discriminate agains people with a different economical status then us. We see them as inferior. We do lump racism in that as well. But, I think overall, the biggest discrimination in the US right now has to do with money.

I'd suggest this. It's a bit lengthy but informative. The reasons for black (or any POC poverty) and white poverty are often very, very different, and rooted in racism. http://merylmohan.tumblr.com/post/26780 ... nd-poverty

Edited to include link, sorry!

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I'd suggest this. It's a bit lengthy but informative. The reasons for black (or any POC poverty) and white poverty are often very, very different, and rooted in racism.

Do you have proof of that? Where I come from, there is no poof. Parents who cared worked 80 hours a week regardless of race. All who worked the same job made the same minimum wage. There was no difference in race when it came to who was poor. It came down to who had enough money to pay the rent, utilities and food.

How many days have you gone with out power due to money? How many days have you lived in a car because you could not pay rent? You will not know what its like until you live it.

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Guest Anonymous
so I go into a McDonalds and the order-taker turns her head when I approach the counter. The one who gave me my food turned her back while sliding the tray my way. The customer behind me was seated first in a restaurant even though he said, "she was here first." I had my lunch in my hand while starting my break at work (the lunch was on a plate, so it was clear that it was my lunch) and a customer asked me a question. He then proceeded to ask a couple more questions whose answers were easy to determine himself if he would have read the product labels, which is all I did. I went to get my drink and purse and he found me again (and there were other, obvious employees working) and had to ask another question about the ingredients in a certain juice. I asked a cashier to page customer service to answer his questions. Or how 'bout the time I had what I thought was a friendly conversation with another family at Toys R Us and we discussed what we were buying and I said that I needed crayons but hadn't run across that section. A man in this family said, "oh, they're far away, they've over in that corner over there." I didn't believe him, but I had Christmas shopping to do and thought I'd look around, anyhow - and sure enough in that corner no crayons were found. When that family and I met again, I asked where he'd found his crayons and the woman said, "did you send her on a goose chase?" .... and then there's the "slow-down" when you're trying to get some place and *huh* a person just then happens to go into a reverie and start walking very slowly right in front of you where you can't pass them. Or the having to ask a sales clerk a bazillion questions about a product. "What kind of fabric is this?" "Where was it made?" "Is it this year?" "Is it last year?" "How many people wear this?" "Do supermodels wear this?" ""When did they wear it?" "What magazines did they wear it in?"

I am struggling to understand this paragraph. Sometimes I write posts that don't make much sense. They are poorly written and I make my arguments in the most roundabout way. If they are ever as incomprehensible as this, I hope that someone will ask me to clarify.

Salsa, please clarify your post. It is not at all clear. As far as I can tell, you're saying:

I went to a McDonald's and this happened...

lunch-counter-mississippi-1.jpg

(For the sake of my own clarity, I should point out I'm being cheeky!)

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The US has economic discrimination. We tend to lump people of different races into different economic groups. I am of a European mutt. My family was poor growing up. I was frustrated that people with other skin colors with the same economic background as me got scholarships but I did not because I was white. I was not privileged as a poor white child. It was counted against me for higher learning. But, I dont consider it racism. I consider it ignorance.

We discriminate agains people with a different economical status then us. We see them as inferior. We do lump racism in that as well. But, I think overall, the biggest discrimination in the US right now has to do with money.

You have to recognize the part of all this that's really "passing privilege" too though.

Meaning, even if you grow up in the worst of circumstances with the most lack of advantages ever, if you have a CHANCE at passing as a member of the privileged group (even if that means learning a new language, or a new dialect, new body language, hiding your name, all that) that's something that not everyone has.

So in the US, where the socially privileged class is white, someone white can immigrate in as say, an Estonian (just to pick some language that might not be easy to jump to English) and perhaps when first starting out, if they move at all (body language) or say word one (language) they're marked as foreign and laughed/discriminated against. But if they can manage to "pass," if they blend in and use a fake name (or in anonymous situations where no one knows anyone name), they'll get that holy grail of "considered to be default citizens who are assumed to be citizens because why not?" and able to represent only themselves.

Whereas, someone who is not white can immigrate, or heck, can be born and raised in the US, with the US the only culture they know and English the only language they speak, and STILL get the "but where are you really from?" question.

That's the part that's 100% "racism" and divorced from class - though I do agree that class is definitely a factor and often the the main factor in decisions and of course it very much is intertwined with race. Like it or not, unfortunately "REGULAR Americans" are still far too tightly tied to "white" (or else "white or black but of course black are the underclass Americans what's up with them?").

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You have to recognize the part of all this that's really "passing privilege" too though.

Meaning, even if you grow up in the worst of circumstances with the most lack of advantages ever, if you have a CHANCE at passing as a member of the privileged group (even if that means learning a new language, or a new dialect, new body language, hiding your name, all that) that's something that not everyone has.

So in the US, where the socially privileged class is white, someone white can immigrate in as say, an Estonian (just to pick some language that might not be easy to jump to English) and perhaps when first starting out, if they move at all (body language) or say word one (language) they're marked as foreign and laughed/discriminated against. But if they can manage to "pass," if they blend in and use a fake name (or in anonymous situations where no one knows anyone name), they'll get that holy grail of "considered to be default citizens who are assumed to be citizens because why not?" and able to represent only themselves.

Whereas, someone who is not white can immigrate, or heck, can be born and raised in the US, with the US the only culture they know and English the only language they speak, and STILL get the "but where are you really from?" question.

That's the part that's 100% "racism" and divorced from class - though I do agree that class is definitely a factor and often the the main factor in decisions and of course it very much is intertwined with race. Like it or not, unfortunately "REGULAR Americans" are still far too tightly tied to "white" (or else "white or black but of course black are the underclass Americans what's up with them?").

Poor is poor no mater how you look at it. Its hard to get a job regardless of your race if you are poor. Its hard to get an education if you are poor. Its hard to get anything in this country if you are poor. People look down on the poor. There is no privilege in the US to being a poor white person. You are still poor. You are still seen as lazy. You are still seen as being below others. Sometimes you are seen as being below other races because you are white and should have it all together because of your race.

You dont know what its like to be poor white trash unless you live it. You also dont know how hard it is to get out of that status unless you try to climb out. I can tell you that I qualify for the same federal financial aid as others of different races. I dont qualify nearly as many scholarships because of my race. I dont consider that to be a privilege.

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