Abby: homeschooling my illiterate gifted kids

[emmiedahl]

Well, at least now she realized that she has to teach reading? :?

I generally think of gifted within the context of school programs, so like the kids at the top of the class. Does that mean they are all geniuses, no, but they get the special label! 8-) I totally agree that success requires hard work and commitment in any case. Even if school comes easily to you, you still have to put in time/effort. I think college is a common place for things to "even out" - I know a few people who were excellent students in high school but just crashed in college, because they had never needed to learn study skills in high school and weren't able to handle the more challenging material. I only know one person who I would think of as "profoundly" gifted or genius. There was another girl in my high school who skipped two grades but honestly the impression I got of her was more that she had a lot of pressure from her parents rather than having exceptional talent. I think a lot of people in my honors or AP classes could have probably succeeded at a grade level a year or two above if given that opportunity.

Yep, I have known plenty of #humblebrag parents of gifted kids. I went to a tiny elementary school and in fourth grade they developed a "gifted" program. It was just sort-of a fun class. About a third of our class met once a week and did brain teaser type things. I really enjoyed it because it was challenging but in a low-pressure way because it was all puzzles and games. Personally, I feel like in the younger grades it's not always extremely important to push "gifted" kids onto the next level of school but just to keep them engaged and interested in learning. My friend who went to a public school did Odyssey of the Mind for her "gifted" program which I think was along the same principles. Anyway, the other parents got mad that their kids weren't included or labeled "gifted" so the year after I left the school, it was renamed and now everybody goes to this class. The label "gifted" has become sort-of a status thing in a way.

I don't think bad spelling and inability to do math are signs of being gifted. Gifted people may certainly have problems in some areas, but when a person cannot add, "gifted" is not the first thing that comes to mind. I really hope she does not view her children's academic deficiencies as signs of their brilliance.

My school district has a "PAL" program, a special class for "Highly Capable Learners" that begins in 3rd grade. My son is in it and loves it. He really needed the extra stimulation. I laughed at the convoluted name at first, but the PAL 3rd grade teacher told me that all children have gifts and talents, so it would be mean to imply that only one small group does. I agree with this.

As a former gifted child, I skated through school and then came close to a mental breakdown when I hit college. I had never been challenged or had to work before. It was a wake-up call that I hope my own children will not have to have. The PAL classes give more challenging work and a lot more of it, so the kids have to learn study skills and time management just like the other children.

I have many complaints about my school district, but I wholeheartedly approve the way they handle gifted children highly capable learners.

[JesusFightClub]

I'm the opposite of gifted and I was programming in Basic at seven. It's a fairly simple language (hence the name) and my programs were likewise simple :) but it was because I was interested in science and technology. I think many small girls are until they get talked out of it.

[mockingbird]

I don't think bad spelling and inability to do math are signs of being gifted. Gifted people may certainly have problems in some areas, but when a person cannot add, "gifted" is not the first thing that comes to mind. I really hope she does not view her children's academic deficiencies as signs of their brilliance.

My school district has a "PAL" program, a special class for "Highly Capable Learners" that begins in 3rd grade. My son is in it and loves it. He really needed the extra stimulation. I laughed at the convoluted name at first, but the PAL 3rd grade teacher told me that all children have gifts and talents, so it would be mean to imply that only one small group does. I agree with this.

As a former gifted child, I skated through school and then came close to a mental breakdown when I hit college. I had never been challenged or had to work before. It was a wake-up call that I hope my own children will not have to have. The PAL classes give more challenging work and a lot more of it, so the kids have to learn study skills and time management just like the other children.

I have many complaints about my school district, but I wholeheartedly approve the way they handle gifted children highly capable learners.

I agree with you. I just meant at least she found some justification for teaching reading. Though who knows what that entails, it's probably not much of an improvement. If your kid is struggling I think it would be better to find professional help (like an actual teacher) but what do I know.

[Oddeverything]

I hope this isn't too off topic here, but this is the first time I've actually read Abigail's Alcove. I'm a recovering Protestant so I know very little about the Catholic church. How can Abigail be a Third Order Carmelite? I was under the impression that was not something available to married people with children. Is this something arcane that a heathen like me would not know about, or is she making it up as she goes along?

[ianthe]

I hope this isn't too off topic here, but this is the first time I've actually read Abigail's Alcove. I'm a recovering Protestant so I know very little about the Catholic church. How can Abigail be a Third Order Carmelite? I was under the impression that was not something available to married people with children. Is this something arcane that a heathen like me would not know about, or is she making it up as she goes along?

This may have been asked and answered before, but here goes anyway.

Abigail may be delusional in many ways, but this is not one of them. "Third Orders" of Roman Catholic religious orders are indeed set up for people "in the world," including married people with children. Third order members may be asked to adhere to certain practices or perform certain kinds of devotional religious duties, such as saying prayers or part of the Divine Office every day. Otherwise, they have jobs and raise children, etc.

This sort of thing was more common in my childhood than it seems to be now, even among the devout. One of my friends once, rather wittily, described members of third order religious organizations as "religious cousins" rather than "religious sisters and brothers."

[Oddeverything]

This may have been asked and answered before, but here goes anyway.

Abigail may be delusional in many ways, but this is not one of them. "Third Orders" of Roman Catholic religious orders are indeed set up for people "in the world," including married people with children. Third order members may be asked to adhere to certain practices or perform certain kinds of devotional religious duties, such as saying prayers or part of the Divine Office every day. Otherwise, they have jobs and raise children, etc.

This sort of thing was more common in my childhood than it seems to be now, even among the devout. One of my friends once, rather wittily, described members of third order religious organizations as "religious cousins" rather than "religious sisters and brothers."

Thanks, ianthe! An admittedly quick Google didn't clear this up for me so I appreciate the explanation.

[samithemage]

[quote="valsa"

I've already got a game plan in place for if my future children have colic (I always expect the worse when it ccomes to my future kids) and I always thought this is how I would handle it. Put in the earphones and soothe the baby. They don't know if you're rocking out to death metal so long as you're trying to comfort them.

Slightly off-topic here, but all three of my children had "colic". They cried for months on end, and although the doctors assured me it would end at three months, for all of them it ended around seven to eight months. Guess who has gastric acid reflux...my now-adult children. Obviously it is a family trait. Flash forward to the present day and my grandson, who had "colic', just like my three children. Thanks to an alert doctor, my grandson was diagnosed with gastric acid reflux and was given treatment. His reflux disappeared around seven months. When I hear of parents letting their colicky babies "cry it out" I want to shout at them to get their child checked by a pediatrician. You may be saving your child from a lot of unnecessary pain.

[itsnikki05]

I have a reluctant reader, or I guess I should say "had" since she's reading of her own volition now, but I used to play a game where she would read one page and I would read one page. It really helped me tune in to where she was having trouble and also I was there to give her attention/encouragement and also she felt like she wasn't having to do all the work alone. Eventually she would read a chapter and then I would. After a while she just read on her own. It took about 6 months before she's picking up "for fun" books and actually having fun. It did fix the reading for school thing much quicker though.

Yes... I totally agree. Make reading FUN for him. I think the pressure is just making it worse..

[itsnikki05]

I was stumped by her Lego as the only engineering toys comment too. Along with what you mentioned there are also Lincoln Logs, Tinker Toys, wooden kits to build things like catapults, and rockets where you can build the engine. She is clueless.

I know right? Julia friggin LOVES her Legos and we're getting her pink Lincoln Logs this Christmas. That's her fav color, so ya know. :roll: :lol:

I'll be darned if a girl can't love to build stuff. My cousin is an Engineer, and my daughter loves her babies, barbies, building stuff w/ legos, and dinosaurs. She wants to be a Doctor. (Well, she's 5, but who knows!? She may be a doc one day!) I hate people putting kids in a little box based on their gender.

[super skeptic]

She forgets that gifted kids often, you know, show SIGNS of being gifted in some area. Not knowing how to read doesn't show that reading/phonics is "boring", it shows that the child is having difficulty associating symbols and blending sounds. It's not a trait to be proud of and choose to ignore because you think your child is a precious snowflake. Any kind of meaningful education requires high level reading skills. The longer she waits, the lesser chance that child has of catching up to his peers.

ETA: Is this the lady who is raising a bunch of kids on a very low budget and has posts about them wearing old torn shoes? Yeah. I'm sure unschooling kids in such a stressful and resource-depraved environment is doing A LOT of good to those kids. (/sarcasm)

[itsnikki05]

I agree with you. I just meant at least she found some justification for teaching reading. Though who knows what that entails, it's probably not much of an improvement. If your kid is struggling I think it would be better to find professional help (like an actual teacher) but what do I know.

Agreed. I think it's probably best to have someone trained in teaching, someone who knows HOW to teach a child to read (if that makes sense? Someone who has dealt with a lot of kids, and knows how different children read)... someone who is patient. BUT... a parent should ALSO teach their child. Ya know? It goes a long way in helping that kid to read to them at home, and to go over the things they struggle with.

[valsa]

She forgets that gifted kids often, you know, show SIGNS of being gifted in some area. Not knowing how to read doesn't show that reading/phonics is "boring", it shows that the child is having difficulty associating symbols and blending sounds. It's not a trait to be proud of and choose to ignore because you think your child is a precious snowflake. Any kind of meaningful education requires high level reading skills. The longer she waits, the lesser chance that child has of catching up to his peers.

This.

From what I gather she's basically decided that because her son has a bunch of behavioral problems that she's read are common in gifted children, that her son must be gifted too. Which I guess makes sense... assuming you're not using, you know, logic.

[Gil]

This.

From what I gather she's basically decided that because her son has a bunch of behavioral problems that she's read are common in gifted children, that her son must be gifted too. Which I guess makes sense... assuming you're not using, you know, logic.

What both of you said. I'll believe it when she gets her son tested. Until then...

[emmiedahl]

This.

From what I gather she's basically decided that because her son has a bunch of behavioral problems that she's read are common in gifted children, that her son must be gifted too. Which I guess makes sense... assuming you're not using, you know, logic.

The behavioral problems seen in gifted children are also seen in children with various learning disabilities. They are a symptom that the way the child is being taught is not right for them.

I would need other evidence of being gifted before I jumped to that conclusion. It is nicer to think your child is gifted than to think your child needs extra help. Many, many children with learning disabilities are gifted in other areas, but that does not negate their need for extra help. One of my stepchildren had multiple learning issues yet was very gifted in working with his hands. We still made sure he could read and do algebra.

[valsa]

The behavioral problems seen in gifted children are also seen in children with various learning disabilities. They are a symptom that the way the child is being taught is not right for them.

I would need other evidence of being gifted before I jumped to that conclusion. It is nicer to think your child is gifted than to think your child needs extra help. Many, many children with learning disabilities are gifted in other areas, but that does not negate their need for extra help. One of my stepchildren had multiple learning issues yet was very gifted in working with his hands. We still made sure he could read and do algebra.

Plus it allows people like Abby to justify laziness. Who needs the hassle of teaching a child who has difficulties to read when you can just throw him in a room with some legos and declare him a genius?

[DarkAnts]

Its sad to see that children are not getting the education they deserve. It reminds me why I am against the unschooling movement.

[YPestis]

To be fair, a lot of mothers prefer to think their kids are gifted and "special" when they see their kids struggle academically. Fundies just go a step further and never bother to seek professional help for their kids. Or fundies will ignore the lack of academic progress because "character building" and "biblical training" is more important. A family such as the Maxwells would rather raise their child to be illiterate than to let them step a foot inside a public school classroom.

[desertvixen]

I always thought this is how I would handle it. Put in the earphones and soothe the baby. They don't know if you're rocking out to death metal so long as you're trying to comfort them.

You know, I cannot figure out why this never occurred to me when I had a small fussy baby (well, not the death metal part but the headphones) because that is a freaking brilliant idea.

I will, however, cop to reading a fussy baby portions of my history book because I was desperate to get through my reading.

[nutella addict]

I had colic - my parents sang to me constantly.

When I was tested for ADHD it was one of the points in the relevant history, because apparently a lot of ADHD children start out as colicky babies, or something.

My sister and I were above average in school but my parents still realized something was amiss when I couldn't just sit down and do my homework, and definitely, definitely, could not handle long term projects and papers. My dad is the same way and learned coping mechanisms since ADHD wasn't a thing when he was growing up, and my parents thus helped me to do the same instead of medicating me. My brother has ELD and ADHD and while once he was on grade level with language he could coast through the rest of school and do really really well in math and science which were far less language-intensive, transitioning to college was really hard for him and now he takes medicine so he can pay attention in lectures and get his homework done. The point is my parents noticed all of our strengths and weaknesses, got my brother and I diagnosed, helped us all out with anything we were struggling with in school even though we were not homeschooled, and even though we were at times considered to be "gifted" or "talented" refused to let us think of ourselves that way if it meant we were going to be arrogant about it or not work as hard because of it. They often talked about how smart we were but never let us use it as an excuse to let our weaknesses slide, if that makes sense. I'm very grateful that they helped me with my ADHD as much as they did, because by college I was fine with projects and papers so long as I remembered all my little tricks to stay focused. I tried medicine once in college after my best friend died because that made my ADHD so much worse, but I hated how Ritalin made me feel and used it as the last of all last resorts.

It sounds to me like this mom just wants an easy excuse for the fact that her children aren't performing at grade level. She sounds far too tired to really teach them and I think that they would be better off in school where they could get different teaching styles and hopefully also diagnoses for their issues.

Oh, and I would like to raise the "I'm a girl who loves math and science" flag as well, please. My sister and I played as much with construction toys like hot wheels tracks, legos, k'nex, lincoln logs, etc as my brother did. And he played with our dolls too. I actually wish I had continued more math and science in college - linguistics is very mathematical in many ways, but now I miss calculus and physics.