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Oldest In A Shoe Daughter Gets Married


titus2_4u

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What makes it even sadder is that the 2 youngest girls were not actually the 2 youngest children. They gave the 4yo boy a bed to himself and the little girls had to share.

I don't think there will be any surprise grand-blessings @ LiaS, although it's certainly possible. I just think they were trying to make sure the wedding was done before the new baby is born, with a few weeks for a cushion. Plus Deanna has been pining to be married since she was like 16, so it doesn't surprise me that she jumped at the first opportunity. I would probably do just about anything to get out of that house.

No. Fuck that noise. They do not get to use the poverty excuse, because they do it to themselves deliberately. They moved the entire family to TX specifically so that Perry could take a crap job with terrible benefits at Vision Forum, even though they owned multiple properties in Ohio. They built the house themselves even though they didn't know what they were doing, which is why the walls and floors were never finished. The house is built (partially) on someone else's property because they couldn't even afford a survey, or were too ignorant to pull a map. The house would have been small for the 7 children they had in it when they built it, but they have purposely added 3 (almost 4) more to it since then. This is not a poor family struggling to get by, this is a selfish, self-centered patriarse who is determined to prove his manhood at the expense of his family, and they absolutely wallow in the miserable conditions that they raise their kids in. Kim's already said that, even when they move to the new house, the older girls "choose" to use Asian-style roll-out mats to sleep on instead of having real beds :roll:

But you are right, there are plenty of other reasons to criticize them. I started a thread the other day about Kim's love of wifely submission, even when her husband is wrong, which is a great place to begin.

I agree with that part so much. Kim and Perry and other fundie couples bring a lot of shit on themselves.

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No. Fuck that noise. They do not get to use the poverty excuse, because they do it to themselves deliberately. They moved the entire family to TX specifically so that Perry could take a crap job with terrible benefits at Vision Forum, even though they owned multiple properties in Ohio. They built the house themselves even though they didn't know what they were doing, which is why the walls and floors were never finished. The house is built (partially) on someone else's property because they couldn't even afford a survey, or were too ignorant to pull a map. The house would have been small for the 7 children they had in it when they built it, but they have purposely added 3 (almost 4) more to it since then. This is not a poor family struggling to get by, this is a selfish, self-centered patriarse who is determined to prove his manhood at the expense of his family, and they absolutely wallow in the miserable conditions that they raise their kids in. Kim's already said that, even when they move to the new house, the older girls "choose" to use Asian-style roll-out mats to sleep on instead of having real beds :roll:

But you are right, there are plenty of other reasons to criticize them. I started a thread the other day about Kim's love of wifely submission, even when her husband is wrong, which is a great place to begin.

Yeah, I don't think this situation is at all the same to those living in extreme poverty doing their best to raise their children. I'd guess pretty much everyone on free jinger would support good parenting regardless of income. We are upset because they are putting their political and moral beliefs above the welfare of their children. That is the problem here - that they are deliberately making decisions that worsen the lives and financial prospects of their kids, prioritising their political and religious beliefs above the wellbeing of the children they are meant to care for. Nobody is saying that they are bad parents making bad financial decisions because their children lack name brand clothes and flashy gadgets. They are bad parents because they continue having children beyond their ability to care for them, when they already have an overabundant 'quiver'. Parents lose their jobs, get sick, end up in bad financial positions every day. That is not poor parenting, that is being unlucky. Kim and Perry are purposely making decisions to exacerbate the stretched nature of their finances, and their children are suffering for it.

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Once more, I'll try to clarify, since people seem to be taking my remarks as saying, "If a wedding isn't fully and formally catered, it's worthless and tacky."

I'm in favor of people throwing the type of wedding they want and can afford, whether that means cake and coffee or appetizers or a five-course meal, as long as it's noted on the invitation what to expect. And if potlucks are an understood reception format in a certain community, then awesome....what the church ladies can come up with is probably better than most reception food I've had. If it's offered, great, but I do think, generally speaking, taking the initiative to ask guests to essentially feed themselves (in addition to a giving a gift and their time) is tacky, which is how I read the sentence. YMMV.

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I suspect that they couldn't get an easement for their current house and the neighbor whose property it is on wants it torn down.

I also think that house will be torn down.

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Once more, I'll try to clarify, since people seem to be taking my remarks as saying, "If a wedding isn't fully and formally catered, it's worthless and tacky."

I'm in favor of people throwing the type of wedding they want and can afford, whether that means cake and coffee or appetizers or a five-course meal, as long as it's noted on the invitation what to expect. And if potlucks are an understood reception format in a certain community, then awesome....what the church ladies can come up with is probably better than most reception food I've had. If it's offered, great, but I do think, generally speaking, taking the initiative to ask guests to essentially feed themselves (in addition to a giving a gift and their time) is tacky, which is how I read the sentence. YMMV.

I agree with keeping the wedding affordable. Why spend $25,000 and be in debt? I've attended weddings where I've had a full meal, a pot luck meal, finger foods only and cake and punch or coffee only.

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bedbathandbeyond.com/regGiftRegistry.asp?WRN=-482195993 - Can we discuss that they registered for a $90 pitcher, but only $70 sheets. And, they registered for a bed. Which is a little sad, I hope they at least have a mattress box spring, because I don't think the potluck wedding guests are going to spend $400 on a bed as a gift.

walmart.com/giftregistry/gr_detail.do?registryId=86212172124 - Also, I can't imagine registering for Nutella and Sharpies. Those are more like the things my mom would never buy, so I bought them for myself when I went away to college. Oh, right, getting married at 19 is basically the same kind of rebellion.

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Guest Anonymous

I agree with keeping the wedding affordable. Why spend $25,000 and be in debt? I've attended weddings where I've had a full meal, a pot luck meal, finger foods only and cake and punch or coffee only.

I don't think it is anything to do with living in a 'certain community'. The mainstream thing here is to get into debt offering a full dinner and then an evening buffet too. I just personally see nothing tacky about friends asking each other for help in any way and I have felt honoured, not abused when friends have asked for practical help for their celebrations.

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Ta-cky.

Not to mention rude for having the two main courses be pork products. Not everyone eats pork - there are a lot of people who have digestive issues with pork and sausage. At least have something in addition if you cannot do another main dish (chicken is easy!!), offer something like Ziti. Looking over the menu, I personally could not eat a thing there, even potato salad, which usually has Mayo in it. SIgh. Inexpensive doesn't have to be cheap. And yeah, Baby's Breath is CHEAP.

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bedbathandbeyond.com/regGiftRegistry.asp?WRN=-482195993 - Can we discuss that they registered for a $90 pitcher, but only $70 sheets. And, they registered for a bed. Which is a little sad, I hope they at least have a mattress box spring, because I don't think the potluck wedding guests are going to spend $400 on a bed as a gift.

walmart.com/giftregistry/gr_detail.do?registryId=86212172124 - Also, I can't imagine registering for Nutella and Sharpies. Those are more like the things my mom would never buy, so I bought them for myself when I went away to college. Oh, right, getting married at 19 is basically the same kind of rebellion.

Nutella? That kind of just broke my heart. I am so glad someone bought it for them.

I guess there is always a chance that people will go in together on the big gifts, like the bed and the KA mixer. Maybe she thought the widespread awareness of the costco shelves would encourage people to chip in for a real bed?

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The other thing that bothers me about this family's poverty is that they could get so many resources for their children, but they turn them down because of pride. They wear their poverty like a badge of honor, and let their kids go without basic necessities because they don't want the welfare that they are entitled to. This isn't about classism and I would hate these parents just as much if they were as rich as the Duggars or the Botkins. I don't know how welfare and food stamps work, but I'm pretty sure that with food stamps alone they could save up some money and buy some damn bolts to secure those shelves to the walls, or even save up and buy actual beds. Or why can't some of the kids just sleep on the couch, or mattresses on the floor of the living room? Nobody uses the living room at night and it would be a hell of a lot safer than that death trap they call a bedroom.

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I agree with keeping the wedding affordable. Why spend $25,000 and be in debt? I've attended weddings where I've had a full meal, a pot luck meal, finger foods only and cake and punch or coffee only.

My ex-husband and I wanted to elope but his mother would not hear it. I had maybe 50 people come and she had over 250. It was well over $20,000 in 2005 (she went WAY over the top) and I hated it.

The marriage was over in less then a year. Guess she learned her lesson. When the ex got remarried last year they threw it in the backyard and had a BBQ.

:)

edited: to clarify the ex's parents paid for it. My parents were all about the elopement.

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The other thing that bothers me about this family's poverty is that they could get so many resources for their children, but they turn them down because of pride. They wear their poverty like a badge of honor, and let their kids go without basic necessities because they don't want the welfare that they are entitled to. This isn't about classism and I would hate these parents just as much if they were as rich as the Duggars or the Botkins. I don't know how welfare and food stamps work, but I'm pretty sure that with food stamps alone they could save up some money and buy some damn bolts to secure those shelves to the walls, or even save up and buy actual beds. Or why can't some of the kids just sleep on the couch, or mattresses on the floor of the living room? Nobody uses the living room at night and it would be a hell of a lot safer than that death trap they call a bedroom.[/quote]

I kind of remember it being mentioned that at one time some of the kids were sleeping in the living room, but I might be wrong or have the fundies mixed up. I agree, sleeping in the living room would be better than the death trap. They could have four or five kids in the bedroom on a decent bunk beds and have the other kids in the living room on air mattresses or on the couch.

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I don't think it is anything to do with living in a 'certain community'. The mainstream thing here is to get into debt offering a full dinner and then an evening buffet too. I just personally see nothing tacky about friends asking each other for help in any way and I have felt honoured, not abused when friends have asked for practical help for their celebrations.

Agree to disagree, then. By "certain communities," I was referring to both religious groups (such as the Quakers) and geographic areas in which these types of celebrations are common/routine/the norm. And as I've said above, I think people need to be responsible and realistic about what sort of budget they have for their wedding, though it's obvious that many people aren't.

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My god this would be so easy to fix with regular bunk beds! If she insists on being unsafe, why not make it look better and get two triple high bunk beds, each with a trundle underneath. They're safer (just a tad), and take up less space, and they wouldn't look like that of prison barracks.

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The only thing that I can think of when picturing that place is "Where is Child Protective Services and the Fire Marshal?!"

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The only thing that I can think of when picturing that place is "Where is Child Protective Services and the Fire Marshal?!"

I recall there was a blog entry in which Kim was promoting some kind of legal service that teaches people how to deal with CPS. CPS might have been called on her, but depending on the state laws they might have been unable to do anything.

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bedbathandbeyond.com/regGiftRegistry.asp?WRN=-482195993 - Can we discuss that they registered for a $90 pitcher, but only $70 sheets. And, they registered for a bed. Which is a little sad, I hope they at least have a mattress box spring, because I don't think the potluck wedding guests are going to spend $400 on a bed as a gift.

walmart.com/giftregistry/gr_detail.do?registryId=86212172124 - Also, I can't imagine registering for Nutella and Sharpies. Those are more like the things my mom would never buy, so I bought them for myself when I went away to college. Oh, right, getting married at 19 is basically the same kind of rebellion.

I think if you register for an item at BBB and no-one buys it for you you then get to purchase it at a discount later. That may explain the more expensive items. Perhaps they know that no-one will buy it.

I'm very jaded about weddings in general. Why the holy heck do people want those massive OTT, me me me parties and gift grabs. The wedding industry is driving the *wedding* extravaganzas when what is truly important is the marriage.

So, as to the Walmart food items -- why this is probably the only thing I like about Fundie weddings! No nonsense here about covering your plate! By putting really cheap items on the registry most people can buy you something. Perhaps even a younger sibling can spring for a liter of coke or a can of Pringles (Josh and Anna, I'm looking at you) to stock a pantry. That is not a bad thing.

Oh, and I had a really simple afternoon wedding. Finger foods, salads and cake. One of my friends "catered" it as her wedding gift to us. We paid for the food, but she put in an enormous amount of work.

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The other thing that bothers me about this family's poverty is that they could get so many resources for their children, but they turn them down because of pride. They wear their poverty like a badge of honor, and let their kids go without basic necessities because they don't want the welfare that they are entitled to. This isn't about classism and I would hate these parents just as much if they were as rich as the Duggars or the Botkins. I don't know how welfare and food stamps work, but I'm pretty sure that with food stamps alone they could save up some money and buy some damn bolts to secure those shelves to the walls, or even save up and buy actual beds. Or why can't some of the kids just sleep on the couch, or mattresses on the floor of the living room? Nobody uses the living room at night and it would be a hell of a lot safer than that death trap they call a bedroom.

Or the books could go in the living room and they could use the third bedroom as an actual bedroom instead of a library! I mean, I love books, and I have a LOT of them. But if I had two bedrooms, a kid and all those books, it would be the books that would be piled onto pallet racking, not the kid.

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She's got another post up about her pregnancy. It's like Deanna's wedding is a distant second in importance. It's all about her, how she is carrying, how dilated she needs to be, will she come early, la la la. Lady, it's your 11 kid, get over it.

If my daughter had just married, I'd be bursting with excitement! This lady, her first post after the wedding was another "pregnancy update."

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I feel kind of sad for Deanna. She never had a real bed, and now she's had to register for a bed, and no one bought it.

What if we all chipped in, bought the bed in her registry, and sent it with a card that says, "From some caring feminists"

I am joking, but I'm not.

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The scary thing is that it won't be long before we have a whole new generation of kids sleeping on pallets.

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The scary thing is that it won't be long before we have a whole new generation of kids sleeping on pallets.

I don't see Deanna going the way of her mom. A year or two and I think she'll see what a narcissist loon her mother is.

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I don't think it is anything to do with living in a 'certain community'. The mainstream thing here is to get into debt offering a full dinner and then an evening buffet too. I just personally see nothing tacky about friends asking each other for help in any way and I have felt honoured, not abused when friends have asked for practical help for their celebrations.

I've never heard of going into debt for a wedding as a mainstream or appropriate thing to do. It never occurred to me or my SO to borrow money for the wedding. Our friends have had sit-down dinners in a nice place, some even with live music. I heard of no one who paid for it through borrowing. Most were just fortunate to have some financial cushion and well off parents. One friend did not have the money so she had no reception.

Re: the potluck wedding reception. It is most definitely not universal. I have never heard of its existence until now and my parents, first gen Chinese immigrants, only learned of potlucks when they came here. Potlucks, in general, was not practiced in China. For weddings, it would be unthinkable. Even among Americanized Chinese, it would not be considered.

In China, I know family and friends who will did not hold a wedding reception because they are unable to provide the necessary food that is appropriate for a wedding. Instead of being seen as shallow, it is considered polite to not have one rather than ask people to bring food to the reception. Hosting parties and feeding guests is an elaborate and exhaustive ritual in China (as my SO found out!), especially for rite of passages like weddings.

American culture is far more relaxed and not as food centric as Chinese society and potlucks are not considered rude here. I think everyone's comments are equally valid regarding potluck as tacky or not...it really depends on where you come from. Amongst our friends and families, potluck receptions are unheard of and my SO would probably be appalled if I suggested that for our wedding. However, that's just the culture we grew up in. I accept that potluck receptions are popular in some quarters of this country.

As for the eternal debate about wedding costs. People should have the wedding they want but never more than they can afford! That's it.

I don't feel sorry for those that had budget weddings as long as they are happy with it. I also don't think others should put people down for having a more elaborate, 'nice' wedding. We had a sit down, full service wedding. We got rave reviews about the food and people were surprised by the variety and abundance we offered. We also got compliments on the flowers and cake. I was told guests were snapping shots and gasping at the decorations (which were mostly the Moms' doings). And I loved how the pics turned out (don't skimp on the photographer!). Plus, it was open bar throughout the night! Even the rehearsal dinner went well, location was beautiful, food was tasty (and abundant). No borrowing was required and everyone had a great time. Even now, both sets of parents and my SO talk about how wonderful everything turned out. Yes, we probably spent more than some on this board would think is necessary. However, I go by my motto that weddings should cost as much as you want and no more than what your bank account can take. :P

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Guest Anonymous

I am in the UK and was clarifying that my views are my own and that I don't share those of the mainstream community. I don't personally believe in 'shoulds' for this kind of occasion. I was probably exaggerating a bit, but it is becoming increasingly widespread in my area for couples to fund their own weddings, rather than expect their parents to pay, and a common way of doing this is to take a loan.

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