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Happy Rosh Hashanah--U R Doin' It Rong


GeoBQn

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Somehow I never knew that Rosh Hashsana was celebrating the almost-sacrificed son. I knew the story of Isaac of course but didn't know there was a holiday about it, let alone a major one. Could anyone here who grew up with that say what your emotional experience was with it? Were you ever scared that your parents would hear a voice that told them to sacrifice you? I remember wondering it as a child, and we didn't even celebrate the notion, just were told how awesome it was that Abraham listened to his schizophrenic mind and almost murdered his child, and that Isaac thought this was awesome too, but it never seemed to occur to anyone we would think it would be done to us. Did anyone here feel that way?

Rosh Hashanah isn't about the akedah (the sacrifice of Isaac). It certainly doesn't celebrate it. Rosh Hashanah is about celebrating the new year and starting the ten days of repentance that lead to Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement where Jews ask others to forgive their sins to them and then ask God to forgive their sins to him and according to Jewish tradition God writes everyone's name in either the Book of Life or the Book of Death which will determine their fate for the coming year.

One of the Torah readings on Rosh Hashanah is about the akedah. But it is a relatively minor aspect of the holiday as things go and it is not something Jews celebrate. It is a passage from the Torah that Jews (and others I'm sure) have long struggled with in trying to understand what it means and what it could possibly teach us.

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There are lots of Torah portions that are read on different holidays because they relate thematically somehow. Other examples include reading the story of Jonah and the whale on Yom Kippur and the story of Ruth and Naomi on Shavuot.

The Akedah did not bother me growing up because I was taught early on that it is meant to show why child sacrifice is wrong. The Unetaneh Tokef, a song detailing all the ways that people can die in the coming year . . . now THAT screwed me up as a kid.

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There are lots of Torah portions that are read on different holidays because they relate thematically somehow. Other examples include reading the story of Jonah and the whale on Yom Kippur and the story of Ruth and Naomi on Shavuot.

The Akedah did not bother me growing up because I was taught early on that it is meant to show why child sacrifice is wrong. The Unetaneh Tokef, a song detailing all the ways that people can die in the coming year . . . now THAT screwed me up as a kid.

Oooh I'll have to check out what that is, reaallly does not sound fun!!!

Thanks everyone for explaining Rosh Hashanah to me!

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Where do these geniuses come up with the idea that they can make a square peg fit in a round hole? Honestly, what is with all these fundies trampling on Jewish traditions? Why are they even observing them and, if they feel the need to do so, why do they feel they have to fix what's not been broken for thousands of years? I need a drink... :doh:

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Where do these geniuses come up with the idea that they can make a square peg fit in a round hole? Honestly, what is with all these fundies trampling on Jewish traditions? Why are they even observing them and, if they feel the need to do so, why do they feel they have to fix what's not been broken for thousands of years? I need a drink... :doh:

They think they own Judaism because as they think about it, Jesus was king of the Jews. They love pretend Judaism as deeply as they love all their other pretend stuff.

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They think they own Judaism because as they think about it, Jesus was king of the Jews. They love pretend Judaism as deeply as they love all their other pretend stuff.

OK. I grew up in rural Michigan and the fundies I came in contact were of the militant, "The Jews killed Jesus" variety. I guess that where my confusion came from. thanks for the clarification.

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No. Jews believe God is one and indivisible. The idea of a trinity is a totally Christian thing. I never understood it really. Jews also believe the Messiah will be born of normal human parents, with normal human attributes. The idea that God can have a son is also a Christian idea. The idea of a three part God directly contradicts Jewish theology, and some would even call it idolatry. Hopefully I didn't miss anything or answered well

That is interesting. I just heard a man who was Jewish and became Christian say that even in the Torah there is the Trinity idea.

I thought he seemed off his rocker lol.

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That is interesting. I just heard a man who was Jewish and became Christian say that even in the Torah there is the Trinity idea.

I thought he seemed off his rocker lol.

He totally made that up. :lol: You should tell him he totally made that up. Even if he's Christian now, so it makes sense that he'd believe in Christian teachings, it's totally not cool to misrepresent what Judaism is.

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I just love this! Not only does he throw out a bunch of shoddy straw men,* but he doesn't even bother attacking them. Lazy.

*I don't think these things are anyone's "big" problems with fake Judaism.

Well, the biggest problem with fake Judaism is the false advertising. As I've said before - if you are a Christian who has a genuine interest in the Old Testament and wants to learn more about the Jewish roots of Jesus, go right ahead. I'm not going to tell something else how to do their religion.

I just have a problem with a people who are funded by evangelical Christians for the purpose of converting Jews to Christianity by pretending to be Jewish and using Jewish symbols, and by deliberately using misleading Hebrew terms with English-speaking audiences when they know that the common English terms would immediately identify them as Christian, when the basic theology that they are peddling is evangelical Christian. Jews who have not been specifically warned by groups like Jews for Judaism often have no idea what it means when the fine print talks about "brit hadasha" or "Yeshua hamoshiach". The equivalent would be a group calling themselves "prophetic Christianity" reaching out to Christians, inviting them to church services, and gradually mentioning that in addition to the wonderful prophecy of Jesus, there are some great additional prophecies from a guy they call Moe....

Now, there are objections to Christian theology in general, when it comes to the basic idea of Jesus dying for sins and being the Messiah. He only mentions some of the objections.

I was certainly taught that the story of Isaac was a near-sacrifice, and never, ever heard this "resurrection" theory. The purpose of the story is two-fold: (1) to demonstrate that Abraham was so dedicated that he was prepared to sacrifice the most important thing in his life, and (2) to demonstrate that while he would have done so, human sacrifice is not necessary and not want G-d wants. The historical context is that human sacrifice DID exist in some cultures, so the fact that someone would sacrifice their son wasn't something new or impressive.

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I was certainly taught that the story of Isaac was a near-sacrifice, and never, ever heard this "resurrection" theory. The purpose of the story is two-fold: (1) to demonstrate that Abraham was so dedicated that he was prepared to sacrifice the most important thing in his life, and (2) to demonstrate that while he would have done so, human sacrifice is not necessary and not want G-d wants. The historical context is that human sacrifice DID exist in some cultures, so the fact that someone would sacrifice their son wasn't something new or impressive.

This is exactly what I was taught about the sacrifice of Issac in church. Abraham was dedicated, but God did not really want him to sacrifice Issac. God found the sacrifice of children in some Semitic tribes repugnant and asked only for animal sacrifice. It was never linked to Jesus and his ressurection. These evangelicals have some cojones with their interpretation of Jewish theology, and they don't know their own theology either. Tools.

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On a better note, I did want to wish all the Jews for Judaism ;) here on FJ a Happy Rosh Hashanah. L'Shana Tova,( and I hope that was a reasonable English rendering of the term). May a new year bring you peace and blessings.

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On a better note, I did want to wish all the Jews for Judaism ;) here on FJ a Happy Rosh Hashanah. L'Shana Tova,( and I hope that was a reasonable English rendering of the term). May a new year bring you peace and blessings.

Thank you! And yes, that is an excellent English spelling.

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This is exactly what I was taught about the sacrifice of Issac in church. Abraham was dedicated, but God did not really want him to sacrifice Issac. God found the sacrifice of children in some Semitic tribes repugnant and asked only for animal sacrifice. It was never linked to Jesus and his ressurection. These evangelicals have some cojones with their interpretation of Jewish theology, and they don't know their own theology either. Tools.

Me too (no I have nothing to add, just want to weigh in).

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Well, the biggest problem with fake Judaism is the false advertising. As I've said before - if you are a Christian who has a genuine interest in the Old Testament and wants to learn more about the Jewish roots of Jesus, go right ahead. I'm not going to tell something else how to do their religion.

I just have a problem with a people who are funded by evangelical Christians for the purpose of converting Jews to Christianity by pretending to be Jewish and using Jewish symbols, and by deliberately using misleading Hebrew terms with English-speaking audiences when they know that the common English terms would immediately identify them as Christian, when the basic theology that they are peddling is evangelical Christian. Jews who have not been specifically warned by groups like Jews for Judaism often have no idea what it means when the fine print talks about "brit hadasha" or "Yeshua hamoshiach". The equivalent would be a group calling themselves "prophetic Christianity" reaching out to Christians, inviting them to church services, and gradually mentioning that in addition to the wonderful prophecy of Jesus, there are some great additional prophecies from a guy they call Moe....

Now, there are objections to Christian theology in general, when it comes to the basic idea of Jesus dying for sins and being the Messiah. He only mentions some of the objections.

I was certainly taught that the story of Isaac was a near-sacrifice, and never, ever heard this "resurrection" theory. The purpose of the story is two-fold: (1) to demonstrate that Abraham was so dedicated that he was prepared to sacrifice the most important thing in his life, and (2) to demonstrate that while he would have done so, human sacrifice is not necessary and not want G-d wants. The historical context is that human sacrifice DID exist in some cultures, so the fact that someone would sacrifice their son wasn't something new or impressive.

Just curious, but are groups like Jews For Jesus very successful in converting Jews? Not that they are representative of Judaism as a whole but the Jews I know are very educated, very intelligent and most are outright Atheist. I don't see Conservatives or Orthodox being the targeted group by JFJ and their ilk, as they are already fairly observant. So JFJ really targets people who may have had some Jewish family in the tree, and they want a way of connecting with their roots?

Count me as another person who has a some Jewish heritage (not very much, just a great grandparent) and am curious too about Judaism. Last year we had a menorah up during Channukah in my house, but that is about as far as it goes for me. I definitely don't consider myself Jewish!

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Very true. The only reason I can go this year is I know someone with an extra ticket. At a reconstructionist synagogue actually which is a new experience for me. Rosh Hashanah is just the one that feels strange for me to celebrate without synagogue, because that's the majority of what you do. I'm not sure if I believe in God half that time, but I still find it very easy to practice Judaism. It's mostly a cultural thing for me now. It just disturbs me when people say you can believe Jesus died for your sins and still be Jewish.

This, so much. I've gotten to the point that I'm pretty much agnostic (it was easier for me to believe in the ghosts in my old-ass house than God!), but I still consider myself Jewish and I love the traditions of it! To me it is more about the history of my people than a big old "god in the sky" kind of thing.

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This, so much. I've gotten to the point that I'm pretty much agnostic (it was easier for me to believe in the ghosts in my old-ass house than God!), but I still consider myself Jewish and I love the traditions of it! To me it is more about the history of my people than a big old "god in the sky" kind of thing.

Me too! I'm mostly agnostic, though I can't help but believe in "something else" out there, but defining exactly what that is isn't really important to me right now. I love all the traditions, and love the feeling of being connected to the history of my people. And I find most Jewish holidays observances make it easy for non belief. It's mostly tradition, history, ritual and culture. I'm not going to synagogue, but I loved celebrating Rosh Hashana last night with my family. But, even though I don't actually believe in most of it, misrepresenting what Jews actually believe like the Jews for Jesus people do really pisses me off.

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Just curious, but are groups like Jews For Jesus very successful in converting Jews? Not that they are representative of Judaism as a whole but the Jews I know are very educated, very intelligent and most are outright Atheist. I don't see Conservatives or Orthodox being the targeted group by JFJ and their ilk, as they are already fairly observant. So JFJ really targets people who may have had some Jewish family in the tree, and they want a way of connecting with their roots?

Count me as another person who has a some Jewish heritage (not very much, just a great grandparent) and am curious too about Judaism. Last year we had a menorah up during Channukah in my house, but that is about as far as it goes for me. I definitely don't consider myself Jewish!

I'm not sure how successful Jews for Jesus was. As obnoxious as that group is, at least they are up front about mentioning the connection to Jesus - which would have alienated at least 99% of Jews. The Messianics, on the other hand, don't explain their beliefs clearly in English, and they will aggressively target more vulnerable groups (like the full-page ad that I saw in a retirement community), or Jews who never had much religious background. I know that Jews from the former Soviet Union have been targeted.

In my experience, there's enough negative history for many Jews to avoid anything connected to Jesus, unless they also have a family connection to Christianity or feel alienated from Judaism. Instead, many who search elsewhere for spirituality tend to end up with eastern religions - Buddhism and Hinduism don't have the negative historical baggage.

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The parents who maintain the blog list No Greater Joy as a "HomeShul" resource. Fuck them and their so-called "Torah-based" child beating.

As for Jews for Jesus, it's not very successful -- not even by its own dodgy accounting. Here are the results from last year's proselytizing campaign in New York:

Campaign wrap up: the final count for pieces of evangelistic literature handed out was 482,777. 985 people who do not know Jesus gave us contact information for follow up; of those, 336 were Jewish! Four Jewish people and 44 Gentiles prayed to receive Jesus.

Likewise, Messianic groups mostly attract Christians looking for something they perceive as more interesting or meaningful -- again, even according to Messianic organizations. 2xx1xy1JD is right, though, that Messianic groups have targeted Jews from the former Soviet Union. (Many of those Jews know very little about their heritage because they lived under an atheist regime.)

Oh, and I wish everyone at FJ a happy and sweet new year. :)

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The parents who maintain the blog list No Greater Joy as a "HomeShul" resource. Fuck them and their so-called "Torah-based" child beating.

Ugh, need to start accumulating Torah quotes showing that child abuse is wrong.

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