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Dr. Paine is a fricken idot!


Justme

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FlorenceHamilton remains my hero for telling it like it is without the expletives that somehow make their way into all of my posts :)

Seriously, I feel like you have a responsibility to use that medical education. People fight tooth and nail to get into medical school and then a decent residency. Paine took a spot that another doctor, one who actually might practice medicine, could have had. And with the shortage of primary care providers in the US, he definitely could have been used. Alleviating suffering is one of the only truly good things we normal people can do to help out in this fucked up world. Paine reminds me of the man who buries his talents rather than investing them in the parable of the talents. He has the ability and training to make a difference and he chooses not to use either. ffs, my kids can stuff envelopes.

Yes.

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Well, my dear Emmie...I did in the end say that all options "suck". I was not entirely free of vulgarity.

Doctors, like everyone else, need to make a living. And the fact is that and decent docotor will make enough money to keep a fine roof over their family's head, eat healthy food, wear nice clothing and educate their children. But nothing on earth beats the feeling when someone thanks you for saving their life...and you know you had a small part in that.

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Well, my dear Emmie...I did in the end say that all options "suck". I was not entirely free of vulgarity.

Doctors, like everyone else, need to make a living. And the fact is that and decent docotor will make enough money to keep a fine roof over their family's head, eat healthy food, wear nice clothing and educate their children. But nothing on earth beats the feeling when someone thanks you for saving their life...and you know you had a small part in that.

Never underestimate the fuckwits. There are many. Trust me I Have met them.

Best thing. They are not talented.

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Count me as one of the confused lot when I found out this Dr. Paine was a practicing MD before quitting to tend to his "ministry". I'm willing to believe that he didn't enjoy the practice of medicine or he was "forced" out, although no reason was offered as to why he quit. Maybe someone on the board could do a little digging....

Otherwise, why would a so-called man of God quit medicine for a job that could be easily performed by a dozen other people? I believe that physicians possess a unique set of skills and it is one of the greatest ways to serve others. It would upset me if this man thought it was better to serve by spreading some old patriarchy crap than to alleviate suffering. Furthermore, as another poster pointed out, he took a spot in med school and residency that could have been given to any number of qualified applicants out there who would be actual practicing doctors.

If this man really wanted to serve humanity and be a good Christian, what better way than to be a doctor to under served areas?

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this looks like the same guy but spelling is off

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Stephe ... ne#reviews

I think the Dr. Paine of the blog is Charles Stephen Paine, licensed in IN and currently living in IL. This agrees with the blog stating they lived in IN and now live in IL. He is a family practice physician. In the Gothard workshops he goes by Stephen Paine, M.D. I could be wrong but right now my thinking is this is him.

Edited to add: one of the Gothard sites mention Dr. Paine's wife Tammy is a R.N. There is a Tammie Paine licensed in IN who also lives in the same IL city as Dr. Charles Stephen Paine.

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"good honest surgeon will quit because Obamacare is not going to help Dr's trying to do th eright thing"..

If by "Obamacare" you mean medical coverage for poor people, that has nothing to do with malpractice suits.

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"good honest surgeon will quit because Obamacare is not going to help Dr's trying to do th eright thing"..

If by "Obamacare" you mean medical coverage for poor people, that has nothing to do with malpractice suits.

Up here in Canada malpractice suits are a rarity. The cost of liability insurance for doctors here is much lower than south of the border - for a number of reasons. Personally, I think one major reason is that we don't have a lawsuit mentality about health care because we are not paying out of our pocket to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars.

If I go to have a baby (unlikely at my age!) and something goes wrong, I am more likely to be accepting than if I am presented with a huge medical bill and a less than perfect delivery or baby.

YMMV - but I do not know anyone who has sued a doctor.

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Up here in Canada malpractice suits are a rarity. The cost of liability insurance for doctors here is much lower than south of the border - for a number of reasons. Personally, I think one major reason is that we don't have a lawsuit mentality about health care because we are not paying out of our pocket to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars.

If I go to have a baby (unlikely at my age!) and something goes wrong, I am more likely to be accepting than if I am presented with a huge medical bill and a less than perfect delivery or baby.

YMMV - but I do not know anyone who has sued a doctor.

Do you guys have those if you took this drug or had this procedure and now have problems call us so you can sue commercials for law firms up there. They drive me crazy here. It's one thing if you doctor is negligent but there is this mentality if anything goes wrong it's automatically the doctors fault. People also have this idea it doesn't hurt anyone since the insurance company pays out since they don't make the connection to higher malpractice rates = less doctors at higher cost. I know when I lived near Philly a few years ago there was a real shortage of OB's since the malpractice rates had gotten so high.

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Up here in Canada malpractice suits are a rarity. The cost of liability insurance for doctors here is much lower than south of the border - for a number of reasons. Personally, I think one major reason is that we don't have a lawsuit mentality about health care because we are not paying out of our pocket to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars.

If I go to have a baby (unlikely at my age!) and something goes wrong, I am more likely to be accepting than if I am presented with a huge medical bill and a less than perfect delivery or baby.

YMMV - but I do not know anyone who has sued a doctor.

Malpractice insurance is part of the reason medical care costs so much here. Ever doctor is required to have it.

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(from the Bates show) 12paines.com

At age 40, he quit his practice as a Family Physician to get a "job" stuffing letters or whatever for The Institute in Basic Life Principles. He honestly felt he could serve God "better".

How about using his talent and trainning to actually HELP people. There are so many hardworking folks (not just fundies) who can't afford medical care. If he didn't want to help poor Americans, he could have traveled to Haiti, Central America, or another poor country.

What the heck is The Institute in Basic Life Principles anyway? It's got to be something Gothard....

I would never quit medicine to "serve the Lord" ...but I am thinking of retiring from medicine early so I can devote my time to art. Is this any better or worse than Dr. Paine? I don't think that doctors are any different from anyone else - sometimes life takes you on a different path from the one you started on. Although I do not believe in his fundamentalist ideas - I do think he has a right to live his life as he sees fit. If he finds it more fulfilling to "stuff letters" or whatever - and he manages to take care of his expenses - I don't feel right criticizing this.

Perhaps I am missing the point. Maybe people are criticizing his choice of new career and not his right to make that change. If so , I am sorry.

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My criticism is that he chose to give up a career that has a legitimate and tangible effect on human lives for a dubious (at best) one - In the name of god. If he truly wants to "serve the lord" he can affiliate with a free clinic (that will cover his insurance) and serve people ... Stuffing envelopes for a cult leader on off days. Gothard, VF, IBLP whatever, they're all "for profit" snake oil salesmen. They have as much of a chance of saving a life as I have of scoring a touchdown tonight.

Jesus healed the sick. If he gave you the talent to do so then serve him by truly following his footsteps. If you want to retire because you want to retire (or some other scandal we're unaware of) then just retire. Thats a perfectly legitimate life choice. Don't call quitting medicine to follow Gothard "serving the lord" because it's the farthest thing from what "the lord" would want.

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Maybe he invested well and just got tired of insurance hassles. Or had a break down. Or maybe he wants to succeed Bill Gothard? I think it's ok....it's his life! His boys were pretty darned handsome though!

But in that episode it's like they just re-shot the first Bates visit to the Duggars and substituted WWRafting for skydiving and paintball. Too boring to even finish the episode.

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I don't know anything about this family beyond what I watched on the Bates' show ... I'm kinda wanting to form my own Free Chad support group, though.

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I have a client whose DH quit privat epractice due to malpractice insurance rising an dwould not do probono cases because he knew several DRs who had been sued by probono clients when they did NOTHING wrong. He now works for the local hopsital but is considering quitting medicine altogether because of the crap that goes on. Sad that a good honest surgeon will quit because Obamacare is not going to help Dr's trying to do th eright thing..

My daughter's good friend father left being a dr to be an auto mechanic. I started checking to see if he had his license taken away, it seemed so odd. I finally got to talk to him and he said sadly he makes more as an auto mechanic, loves what he does, and has more family time. He still holds a license and volunteers at the free clinic. He said between having a staff, all the billing and insurance hassles, paying for malpractice insurance, and an office the money was under 60k a year. He hated how limited he was in what he could do. Now we live in Utah in an area where there is only one HMO that dominates 90% of the state and every dr within a 200 mile region. Basically the monopoly means the payouts are so low. A level IV doctor visit to a specialist gives a dr $43. I feel bad spending 1 hour with my cardilogist knowing he gets $43. I can't imagine he makes much money if anything. I am also lucky he even takes me as a patient. Most specialist won't take rare conditions or time consuming patients because of the loss of money.

My cousin left being a psychatrist after 20 years because of burn out and how the insurance company just wanted him to be a pill pusher. He now is head of a homeless shelter and loves his work.

I think the big difference is both people I know that left their practices had modest homes that were paid off, and my cousin has no kids by choice, and my daughter's friends father has one child. Dr Paine could certainly use his knowledge in a some sort of service medical ministry and help provide for his family and help people. It makes me question Gothard overseas minstry. Most overseas operations would love a doctor on the team? Alot of ministries try and help provide decent housing for the family of a dr or nurses. Does Gothard just hand out Bibles, soccer balls and minimal food?

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Really. Don't the vast majority of us aspire to do the reverse?

If he walked away from his practice, he shouldn't be addressed as "Doctor" anything. He's Mr. Paine who earned an MD and last practiced medicine something like 10 or more years...looks to be in his early/mid-50's.

Whether he uses his degree and training or not doesn't have anything to do with him being a doctor. Just because he stopped practicing medicine doesn't mean he's not a doctor anymore and doesn't mean he shouldn't be addressed as Dr.

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My daughter's good friend father left being a dr to be an auto mechanic. I started checking to see if he had his license taken away, it seemed so odd. I finally got to talk to him and he said sadly he makes more as an auto mechanic, loves what he does, and has more family time. He still holds a license and volunteers at the free clinic. He said between having a staff, all the billing and insurance hassles, paying for malpractice insurance, and an office the money was under 60k a year. He hated how limited he was in what he could do. Now we live in Utah in an area where there is only one HMO that dominates 90% of the state and every dr within a 200 mile region. Basically the monopoly means the payouts are so low. A level IV doctor visit to a specialist gives a dr $43. I feel bad spending 1 hour with my cardilogist knowing he gets $43. I can't imagine he makes much money if anything. I am also lucky he even takes me as a patient. Most specialist won't take rare conditions or time consuming patients because of the loss of money.

My cousin left being a psychatrist after 20 years because of burn out and how the insurance company just wanted him to be a pill pusher. He now is head of a homeless shelter and loves his work.

I think the big difference is both people I know that left their practices had modest homes that were paid off, and my cousin has no kids by choice, and my daughter's friends father has one child. Dr Paine could certainly use his knowledge in a some sort of service medical ministry and help provide for his family and help people. It makes me question Gothard overseas minstry. Most overseas operations would love a doctor on the team? Alot of ministries try and help provide decent housing for the family of a dr or nurses. Does Gothard just hand out Bibles, soccer balls and minimal food?

There are many reasons to change careers and if this man gets more joy from fixing cars than people, more power to him. However, the $43 dollars for a specialist is the copay. Trust me on this. Cardiologists still make enough to be in the lower end of the 1%. I think most people can live with that.

There are some people who simply are not cut out for medicine. It is very hard to listen to people all day who are unwell. It is difficult to guide people in good decision making, espially in the climate of a deluge of information and little trust in authority. It is exhausting to fight the insurance companies to get people the services they need. It is heartbreaking to see folks choose between food and medication. It is overwhelming to guide patients and families though the process of the end of life. It is tiresome to listen to people tell me that statins are bad for their liver when they continue to drink and smoke. It is frustrating to fight the ravages of agreesive diseases. It is sometimes hard to sleep at night knowing that some people suffer in spite of your best efforts.

If you can digest and sort enormous amounts of often conflicting information. If you can make a stack of life changing decisions every day. If you can live many nights without sleep. If you can deal with the fact that the police can call you at any time because they found your name on the prescription bottle of the dead person they found. If you can carry other people's pain and still live your life...then medicine is the career for you.

The thing about insurance that is the tipping point for most doctors is not that the reimbursement is unreasonable. The untenable thing is that they nitpick and blockade every attempt to get basic care for your patients and also get paid for the overhead that it takes to attend to the detail of minutia that these companies require. It becomes very frustrating.

You need to hold onto the times that you made a person feel less alone, that you made the pain go away, that you made a person well again, that you found the problem, that you heped a person get control back into their lives. And if those things do not sustain you, then money will not do it. You need to get out of the game.

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I would never quit medicine to "serve the Lord" ...but I am thinking of retiring from medicine early so I can devote my time to art. Is this any better or worse than Dr. Paine? I don't think that doctors are any different from anyone else - sometimes life takes you on a different path from the one you started on. Although I do not believe in his fundamentalist ideas - I do think he has a right to live his life as he sees fit. If he finds it more fulfilling to "stuff letters" or whatever - and he manages to take care of his expenses - I don't feel right criticizing this.

Perhaps I am missing the point. Maybe people are criticizing his choice of new career and not his right to make that change. If so , I am sorry.

I can't speak for others, but for me, it's the choice of career that bothers me. The fact that he does it to 'serve the lord' and is already doing so as a doc only makes it more painful for me to see. I respect the right for people to change careers. I was a nontraditional med student so I used to get a lot of weird looks when I tell people about my previous career. However, if my goal is to be a good Christian and all that jazz, it wouldn't be to join an organization that promotes a harmful theology....the fact that he was once a doctor who *was* in an honorable career only makes it worse.

I think everyone should find their path and be happy. However, when you say you want to serve humanity, it's a big jump to go from being a healer to being an advocate of this quiverful, submissive, anti-intellectual lifestyle that actually harms people.

On a side note, it does seem a shame for decent docs to quit....but as you pointed out, doctors are people too and have the right to change careers as they see fit. But couldn't have Dr. Paine have chosen a more useful career?

EDIT: On the note of his title. Technically, you are addressed as 'doctor' whether you practice your profession or not. The same goes for PhD's. If they have a doctorate in history, even if they become an auto mechanic, it is still socially appropriate to address them as doctor. I think in some states, there's a law against addressing non-MDs as doctors in hospital settings though....

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Do you guys have those if you took this drug or had this procedure and now have problems call us so you can sue commercials for law firms up there. They drive me crazy here. It's one thing if you doctor is negligent but there is this mentality if anything goes wrong it's automatically the doctors fault. People also have this idea it doesn't hurt anyone since the insurance company pays out since they don't make the connection to higher malpractice rates = less doctors at higher cost. I know when I lived near Philly a few years ago there was a real shortage of OB's since the malpractice rates had gotten so high.

I've seen those commercials for the U.S. but not for anywhere here. People seem to be far less inclined to sue, with OHIP etc. covering the bills. That's a good thing and a bad thing - it saves a lot of wing nuts going after doctors with lawsuits that are ridiculous, just because the doctor pissed them off. On the other hand, when something bad does happen at the fault of the physician, there don't seem to be many resources that can help patients. I know one family who lost their newborn to gross medical negligence at least 10 years ago; they sued immediately, but as far as I know, still haven't gotten anywhere. I've had grounds for suing, but I have no idea how to go about it, and from what I've heard, it's more likely to be a waste of my time than anything.

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Looks like HOTW is not going to come back and tell use exactly how Obamacare is going to make doctors want to quit or do the wrong thing.

I think if health care wasn't an issue, people would be less likely to sue. If you have to worry about how to pay massive medical bills after something goes wrong, then you are more likely to want to blame the doctor and sue for money to help pay for those bills.

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What the heck is The Institute in Basic Life Principles anyway? It's got to be something Gothard....

Gothard's first organization was something like Institute of Youth Conflicts today known as the Institute in Basic Life Principle. The other parts are Advanced Training Institute and Embassy Institute. Like Amyway/Quixtar....same thing with different names. It's the sales ["education"] arm of the Gothard group.

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  • 6 months later...
FlorenceHamilton remains my hero for telling it like it is without the expletives that somehow make their way into all of my posts :)

Seriously, I feel like you have a responsibility to use that medical education. People fight tooth and nail to get into medical school and then a decent residency. Paine took a spot that another doctor, one who actually might practice medicine, could have had. And with the shortage of primary care providers in the US, he definitely could have been used. Alleviating suffering is one of the only truly good things we normal people can do to help out in this fucked up world. Paine reminds me of the man who buries his talents rather than investing them in the parable of the talents. He has the ability and training to make a difference and he chooses not to use either. ffs, my kids can stuff envelopes.

First of all, add me to the FlorenceHamilton fan club! I love your posts!

I am still catching up from when I was in Quiver Full of Snark Exile.

Anyway, why I remember this from Paine Family 2012 wrap-up, I have no idea, but towards the end of the post, Mrs. Paine mentions that (For our benefit, maybe?) Dr. Paine is practicing medicine, but for the Oklahoma Department of Corrections, and that he she believes the inmates know that he treats them as real people (as opposed to inmates, maybe?).

Anyway, it makes me wonder if he ever really stopped practicing medicine. It would be interesting to know if part of his duties at headquarters, was as the doctor on staff.

Anyway, it does seem like he has found himself a niche, serving God through a prison ministry of sorts, but also not wasting his medical education. It is not the route I would have taken, because I also belive that our country (especially in very rural areas) could benefit from more GP, but it is not my life.

Now, if he would actually allow his children to actually go to college... that would be awesome.

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Why is this guy stuffing envelopes whilst that Shrader moron gets money to hand out bibles & do nothing of use?

Steve Maxwell & whateverhisname is Waller were both engineers before becoming fundie. Such a waste of skills that could actually be useful in impoverished countries.

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Why is this guy stuffing envelopes whilst that Shrader moron gets money to hand out bibles & do nothing of use?

Steve Maxwell & whateverhisname is Waller were both engineers before becoming fundie. Such a waste of skills that could actually be useful in impoverished countries.

Whoa wait, I knew that Don Staddon was an engineer (for Lockheed Martin), but I had no idea that Maxwell and Waller were too. That is insane, I can sort of see why the Duggars discouraged college (they did not go themselves), but these men are highly educated. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Not everyone's path takes them through college, but it irritates me that they are not even giving them the choice.

That being said, I still think that Shrader is a part of some pyramid scheme. First there was the sponsorship tho go to Zambia, then it was a new baby, then it was a plane. Living off of the kindness of others. It seems pretty shady. :whistle:

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Oh, and he's got a batch of "reversal kids", too! Move over Stevie!!

Maybe it's "fate". Maybe some of Stevie's reversal kids should marry some of Dr. Paines! :drool:

Thomas Paine (oh the irony of that name) is only 2 or 3 years younger than Poor Sarah. Don't the Paines have an oldest daughter about Sarah's age? Maybe they. . .oh, never mind.

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