Meet Hellena and Currawong

[Koala]

If you've never done anything you're ashamed of, fine, go on chucking stones. If not, then consider the things you've done that you're ashamed of and how much you'd like to continue to be condemned for them even when you have recognised you did something wrong.

This is a snark board. We are all here "chucking stones". Maybe I missed some of Valsa's quotes (I easily could have) but I didn't see her verbally abuse anyone, and I didn't see her compare the poster in question to "the worst kind of abuser". I am not saying it didn't happen, but I personally didn't see it.

I took objection to the way OKTBT pointed out that her husband admitted to being a "twatt" and to me it made it seem like she was excusing her behavior. That might not be what she intended, but it's the way it came across. I even went as far as to directly quote posts in which she contradicted herself, but that was labeled as cherry picking. Fine, I let it go.

All that aside, everyone seemed to be pretty damn happy to put the whole subject to rest until this thread. Actually I haven't head another word of it until Valsa said something about Helena abusing Currawong and OKTBT piped in about her being judgmental. Really? I mean come on.

[valsa]

I took objection to the way OKTBT pointed out that her husband admitted to being a "twatt" and to me it made it seem like she was excusing her behavior. That might not be what she intended, but it's the way it came across. I even went as far as to directly quote posts in which she contradicted herself, but that was labeled as cherry picking. Fine, I let it go.

I don't have time to re-read the thread in question but I believe this was one of my biggest objections as well.

And, iirc, I think OKTBT also mentioned something about it not being abuse because her husband wouldn't call himself abused. Which is sort of interesting in light of the post talked about in this thread, because I doubt Currawong would consider himself to be abused either, even though Hellena's abuse of him was worse that what OKTBT did to her husband.

[moodygirl86]

Dear Hellena,

I know you're probably reading this thread, so I'm going to share a couple of stories with you. From 2006 - 2008, I dated a guy called Mark. He considered himself "anti-establishment" in much the same way you do. Both of us were/had been in bands, and he often sneered at me because I had a day job in a call centre. In fact according to him, having a day job made me a "capitalist" and "not a real artist". (I don't really label myself politically but I'm probably as socialist as you can get.) Anyway, he refused to get a job even when it would have helped him afford band equipment and stuff like that. But he didn't seem to understand that by signing on and receiving dole money, he was putting himself at the mercy of the very establishment he despised. Sound familiar? I'm currently on the dole myself, and would never judge anyone for this fact in and of itself, particularly in this economic climate. It's one thing looking for work and it taking some time to materialise. That happens, unfortunately. But why would you choose to put yourself (and your kids) through poverty without even trying to find some work? This is what I find genuinely baffling.

As for bullying, I'd like to give you an example of what does constitute this. Last year, I was temping as an office administrator. One of the managers there was the rudest, nastiest woman I have ever met (and a racist). She was the classic boss from hell - playing favourites, publicly shouting and screaming at anyone who made a mistake, gossiping about people behind their backs - particularly if you were from the agency as I was. I spent the two months there gritting my teeth and pretending I didn't care, because I wasn't going to let her see I was bothered. But I finally snapped and walked out after I'd had to ask her a work related question and she responded by calling me a stupid retard in front of everyone. The following conversation went a bit like this:

ME: Oi! I'm not being rude to you, so why are you being rude to me? Would you prefer it if I didn't ask and gave out wrong information in an email?

CHERYL: EXCUSE ME? AM I NOT THE MANAGER? I'VE GOT A RIGHT TO BE RUDE IF PEOPLE DESERVE IT!

ME: Bullshit! I don't give a toss if you're the Pope, you don't get to speak to me like I'm a piece of crap! If you're smart enough to be a manager, then you should be smart enough to understand that you do not speak like that to staff! And as for deserving it, who the hell died and made you God?

CHERYL: Well, if you don't like it, then you shouldn't ask stupid questions, should you?

ME: Oh well that's interesting, because I'm sure I remember somebody who looked exactly like you on my first day, telling me and four other temps that no question's ever too stupid if we think it needs asking! Well here's a tip - when you're inducting my replacement, don't go telling them stuff like that if you don't mean it! And until that poor bastard turns up, you can bloody well do my work as well as your own, if you're so damn smart!

I complained to the agency, who of course took her side just because she was the manager and I was only a crappy little temp. This is bullying, Hellena. I'm not trying to belittle your feelings, but with all due respect, you don't know the meaning of the word. Thankfully many workplaces are not like that, but if you ever worked in one, you'd quickly toughen up out of pure necessity. Just put on your big girl pants and face up to the fucking world! You want to be alternative and stick it to the man, well, practise what you fucking preach!

Yours exasperatedly,

Moodygirl

[formergothardite]

*Warning: The following post may sound "judgmental" to some. I don't give a shit. My mother was a victim of domestic violence and I don't have any patience for it. I don't care who's beating who or why, it's wrong and that's the way I feel about it.*

It blows my mind that she is able to be so open about beating her husband (with her only regret being that she wasn't able to really hurt him) and she get's very minimal reaction for it. If this were a man posting about beating his wife people would be coming out of their trees.I also have to say, that it really speaks well for him that he didn't lay her out on the spot, because a lot of people wouldn't have had the restraint to stand there while that crazy bitch hit him, kicked him, and pulled his hair. I don't think much of him, but I'll give him credit for that.

Honestly, if she is neglecting those kids and beating him then he needs to take those babies and get the hell away from her. Maybe when they move in with the friendly neighborhood hoarder Child Services will sit up and take notice.

It is because society still seems to think that women hitting men isn't "that bad". I was watching the movie New Year and one of the main women in it slaps a man in the face twice and the message seems to be "well he was a jerk and deserved it". Can you imagine a modern movie where a man hits a woman twice and it isn't shown as being an abusive action?

[valsa]

Can you imagine a modern movie where a man hits a woman twice and it isn't shown as being an abusive action?

Is it produced by Vision Forum or directed by Kirk Cameron? , tongue only half in cheek>

[OkToBeTakei]

Oh God, here we go again.

We're ALL against spousal abuse aren't we? It's not OK if men beat women, women beat men, men beat men or women beat women. (Gay domestic violence is underreported and often not even considered to be an issue: it takes just as much guts to leave an abusive gay male or lesbian relationship as it does any other.) It's not judgemental to be against spousal abuse and OKTBT isn't saying it is. What she is saying is that she found valsa's attitude towards HER judgemental on a previous occasion.

(It's also not OK to hit children - I should think all of us agree on that: it seems to be a constant on this board.)

The issue she, and valsa, and I, as it happened, disagreed on, and the issue to which OKTBT is referring here was HOW you deal with people who admit to have hit a partner or child. Especially if they have understood that they were wrong to do it and have changed the way they deal with things.

OKTBT went out on a limb and admitted something personal that she'd done once and was sorry for. That didn't stop valsa beating on her verbally, equating her to the worst type of abuser, implying that she was beyond redemption and that this verbal abuse was the way to make her stop because (quote valsa: 'some people respond to hugs and hand holding. Others respond to condemnation.') and valsa had arbitrarily decided that OKTBT was only going to respond to condemnation.

I doubt if there is anyone on here who now condones laying a finger on a partner or a child in an other than loving way. I understand that you have a personal issue that 'hooks' you on this topic, but perhaps you could bear in mind that verbal abuse can hurt just as much as physical, and leave as lasting scars.

If you've never done anything you're ashamed of, fine, go on chucking stones. If not, then consider the things you've done that you're ashamed of and how much you'd like to continue to be condemned for them even when you have recognised you did something wrong.

FFS let's just repeat it shall we?

No-one here believes spousal or child abuse is OK. That includes OKTBT.

No I do not think any type of abuse is ok.

But hey ho, I'm some type of heinous creature. That's ok. Apparently I have my 'panties in a wad?' I translate that to 'knickers in a twist.' Same thing different culture. Hehe.

I have to admit apart from being truthful I am actually ok being me. I feel pretty good most days. I've made mistakes in life I'm 43, I don't think that is a big stretch. Ad nauseum I repeated on said issue that was the most important issue.

BUT here's the stoosh. The bottom line. The lowdown.

Valsa, I am long enough in the tooth to be secure in myself, my life and the way I live it, both in life and more importantly for the purpose of this discussion ONLINE. I do not differentiate. I act the same way. I am pretty upfront and quite honest. But as in life some times you need to be...shall we say less concerned with what your own sensibilities are and look at the bigger picture and how what you may feel and project may impact on another.

I took the time to look back after that thread. Sorry, you do not do that, you just badger and bully. Straight words, straight to the point. But true.

I have no idea why you feel the urge to do that, I am also not interested. But I do think you should be aware that not everybody is going to be unaffected by your words as I was. So while you feel you are making some great moral statement you could actually be causing damage to somebody.

The childish 'pantie in a wad' statement. It is all designed ..to what? Wind me up? Make me react? No it just makes me think less of you. Which actually is quite sad because the majority of your posts I agree with.

Pick your fights. I am fairly sure there are many worse 'abusers' in the world than me. For some reason known to you and your pal..I am it.

One thing though. I WILL watch because as much as I am able to deflect, not everybody is. That is just not fair. Not fair at all. Internet brave is not good.

[valsa]

I took the time to look back after that thread. Sorry, you do not do that, you just badger and bully. Straight words, straight to the point. But true.

I have no idea why you feel the urge to do that, I am also not interested. But I do think you should be aware that not everybody is going to be unaffected by your words as I was. So while you feel you are making some great moral statement you could actually be causing damage to somebody.

This is a snark board. It has been said repeatedly in the past. This is not a support board or a board whose purpose is to try to change people. This is a board that exists to point and laugh, or just bitch, at people with dangerous beliefs. In the previous thread, some of the statements you made raised a red flag with me about dangerous beliefs you potentially have about whether or not a person can deserve to be hit by an intimate partner (if they're being a "twit" or "twat" or whatever it was you said your husband was acting like that caused you to hit him) I said nothing to or about you that I wouldn't have said about anyone else we talk about on this board in the same circumstance, and it's no more my duty to prevent damaging someone's delicate feelings when they're a board member than if they're one of the fundies we openly trash.

And more to the point, since my original comment was about a woman who repeatedly hit her husband/boyfriend, is happy about it, and only regrets that she didn't hurt him more significantly- I hope my comment damages her. I hope it is damaging enough to her fucked up psyche that it jerks her head right out of her ass, though I doubt it will.

The childish 'pantie in a wad' statement. It is all designed ..to what? Wind me up? Make me react? No it just makes me think less of you. Which actually is quite sad because the majority of your posts I agree with.

Actually, I said "undies in a wad". I don't like the phrase "panties in a bunch/wad" because I find it misogynistic. And I said what I said because I'd already used "bug up your butt" when talking directly to you and needed another line. And yes, both of those were specifically meant to be childish, in response to your behavior in this thread. Let's face it, there's not much that more childish that leaving an ambiguous shit-stirring comment on someone's post, then "coyly" refusing to elaborate on what you're said. I was answering immaturity with immaturity.

Pick your fights. I am fairly sure there are many worse 'abusers' in the world than me. For some reason known to you and your pal..I am it.

Exactly who started this "fight"? I'm sorry if I gave off the impression that you take up a great deal of my headspace but I made my comment on this thread without having thought about you since, well, our last encounter actually happened. You're the one that took a comment, made weeks after the fact and in a completely different context, and somehow decided I was talking to or about you. Nothing said in this thread was about you until you decided to make it about you.

One thing though. I WILL watch because as much as I am able to deflect, not everybody is. That is just not fair. Not fair at all. Internet brave is not good.

Are you serious right now? You're, what? Some self-appointed internet feelings bodyguard now? Are you even reading what you're posting or did you fall asleep with your head on your keyboard?

ETA: Also, for someone supposedly so unaffected by what I said, you seem to have put a lot of effort into becoming a watchdog for the feelings of women who hit men to, I suppose, spite me or something.

[OkToBeTakei]

This is a snark board. It has been said repeatedly in the past. This is not a support board or a board whose purpose is to try to change people. This is a board that exists to point and laugh, or just bitch, at people with dangerous beliefs. In the previous thread, some of the statements you made raised a red flag with me about dangerous beliefs you potentially have about whether or not a person can deserve to be hit by an intimate partner (if they're being a "twit" or "twat" or whatever it was you said your husband was acting like that caused you to hit him) I said nothing to or about you that I wouldn't have said about anyone else we talk about on this board in the same circumstance, and it's no more my duty to prevent damaging someone's delicate feelings when they're a board member than if they're one of the fundies we openly trash.

And more to the point, since my original comment was about a woman who repeatedly hit her husband/boyfriend, is happy about it, and only regrets that she didn't hurt him more significantly- I hope my comment damages her. I hope it is damaging enough to her fucked up psyche that it jerks her head right out of her ass, though I doubt it will.

Actually, I said "undies in a wad". I don't like the phrase "panties in a bunch/wad" because I find it misogynistic. And I said what I said because I'd already used "bug up your butt" when talking directly to you and needed another line. And yes, both of those were specifically meant to be childish, in response to your behavior in this thread. Let's face it, there's not much that more childish that leaving an ambiguous shit-stirring comment on someone's post, then "coyly" refusing to elaborate on what you're said. I was answering immaturity with immaturity.

Exactly who started this "fight"? I'm sorry if I gave off the impression that you take up a great deal of my headspace but I made my comment on this thread without having thought you since, well, our last encounter actually happened. You're the one that took a comment, made weeks after the fact and in a completely different context, and somehow decided I was talking to or about you. Nothing said in this thread was about you until you decided to make it about you.

Are you serious right now? You're, what? Some self-appointed internet feelings bodyguard now? Are you even reading what you're posting or did you fall asleep with your head on your keyboard?

Hehe. Well if your good with all that. You knock yourself out. I think you make excuses. *shrug*

[valsa]

Hehe. Well if your good with all that. You knock yourself out. I think you make excuses. *shrug*

Well, since I'm sure you think I'm acting like a twat, I'm surprised you haven't taken a crack at it yourself.

Okay- that? That was childish. My apologies.

[Koala]

But as in life some times you need to be...shall we say less concerned with what your own sensibilities are and look at the bigger picture and how what you may feel and project may impact on another.

I have to ask (because I'm truly curious), if you are so concerned with how what you feel and project may impact another then what are you doing on a board that exists for the sole purpose of snarking? Are we supposed to treat our members with more care than the fundies we talk about here? Because other than this I've never seen you seem too worried about how our various feelings might impact the people we are talking about. Again, maybe you have expressed such sentiments and I missed it, but I haven't seen it.

One thing though. I WILL watch because as much as I am able to deflect, not everybody is. That is just not fair. Not fair at all. Internet brave is not good.

This I really don't understand. If you go with that thought process, then this board as a whole isn't fair. As I mentioned upthread, you are the one that chose to revisit this subject. The min. Valsa said something about Helena abusing Currawong you spoke right up with some quip about how judgmental she is.

For me personally this boiled down to a very black and white: Hitting your spouse is wrong no matter who you are. Many people on that thread admitted to having hit their child, however none of them offered what could be perceived as excuses for their behavior. My specific issue was with you tossing in the bit about your husband admitting to being a "twat" when you hit him. I said what I wanted to say about it and I truly don't think anyone here would have ever brought any of it up again if you hadn't.

This isn't personal for me. I do have a history with abuse though (my childhood wasn't the most pleasant and as I've said, my mother was severely abused), so because of that I will always speak firmly when this subject comes up. Just not a lot of in-between on this for me.

[Koala]

Never mind. It's just not worth it

[OkToBeTakei]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14146

Seems a shame to those reading about the great Curradong Hellatrix. Above probably explains.

Apologies for any derail I caused :D

Oh Edited to add it probably will make the pointed comments here made in perspective for all parties. That I feel would be fair.OR just ignore and read on about Crochet.

[Koala]

http://freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14146

Seems a shame to those reading about the great Curradong Hellatrix. Above probably explains.

Apologies for any derail I caused :D

Oh Edited to add it probably will make the pointed comments here made in perspective for all parties. That I feel would be fair.OR just ignore and read on about Crochet.

In light of this I am going to go ahead and post away.

But as in life some times you need to be...shall we say less concerned with what your own sensibilities are and look at the bigger picture and how what you may feel and project may impact on another.

I have to ask (because I'm truly curious), if you are so concerned with how what you feel and project may impact another then what are you doing on a board that exists for the sole purpose of snarking? Are we supposed to treat our members with more care than the fundies we talk about here? Because other than this I've never seen you seem too worried about how our various feelings might impact the people we are talking about. Again, maybe you have expressed such sentiments and I missed it, but I haven't seen it.

One thing though. I WILL watch because as much as I am able to deflect, not everybody is. That is just not fair. Not fair at all. Internet brave is not good.

This I really don't understand. If you go with that thought process, then this board as a whole isn't fair, so I guess you better "watch" everyone (whatever that means). As I mentioned upthread, you are the one that chose to revisit this subject. The min. Valsa said something about Helena abusing Currawong you spoke right up with some quip about how judgmental she is.

For me personally this boiled down to a very black and white: Hitting your spouse is wrong no matter who you are. Many people on that thread admitted to having hit their child, however none of them offered what could be perceived as excuses for their behavior. My specific issue was with you tossing in the bit about your husband admitting to being a "twat" when you hit him. I said what I wanted to say about it and I truly don't think anyone here would have ever brought any of it up again if you hadn't.

This isn't personal for me. I do have a history with spousal abuse though (my childhood wasn't the most pleasant and as I've said, my mother was severely abused), so because of that I will always speak firmly when this subject comes up. Just not a lot of in-between on this for me. I won't tip toe around it to spare your feelings. If you don't agree that what Helena did to Currawong was abuse then tough. If you think pointing out that what she did to him was abuse then again, tough.

What exactly did you hope to accomplish by quoting Valsa's comments on spousal abuse and calling her judgmental? You say you apologize for derailing the thread, but what else did you think would happen when you posted that?

[OkToBeTakei]

Koala. Bump the old thread if you want. There was many questions and opinions there expressed after the fact that were never answered.

You appear to hunt in pairs.

Edited to add. Maybe after some sleepy time.

[Koala]

Koala. Bump the old thread if you want. There was many questions and opinions there expressed after the fact that were never answered.

You appear to hunt in pairs.

No one is hunting anything. I'm also not bumping an old thread. I can't speak for anyone else, but quite frankly I had spoken my peace on that thread and had nothing further to add. Again, what did you hope to accomplish by bringing this up again?

You seem to be playing up the victim role, but you were the one who elected to rehash this. No one was saying anything about it, but I guess now if someone mentions spousal abuse you'll have to chime in about how judgmental they are and link a thread that has been buried for weeks.

Seriously, you are on a snark board complaining about people being to judgmental. I don't even...

[valsa]

No one is hunting anything.

Speak for yourself.

Tonight, I dine on the blood of my enemies!... and Fancy Feast.

[Anxious Girl]

Speak for yourself.

Tonight, I dine on the blood of my enemies!... and Fancy Feast.

Too cute for words!

[Koala]

Speak for yourself.

Tonight, I dine on the blood of my enemies!... and Fancy Feast.

I love that cat! I have him on my "things that make me smile" pinterest page :lol: Also grumpy cat. I'd adopt grumpy cat in a minute!

[valsa]

Too cute for words!

Not at all. I was originally looking for a different picture to post but saw this and had to use it because it's so stinkin' adorable. Yay black kitties!

[valsa]

Also grumpy cat. I'd adopt grumpy cat in a minute!

Weirdly enough, grumpy cat makes me sad. I just want him to be happy and smile! *sobs*

[lilith]

Thirded.

Back to the crazy hippies.....

I think Hellenna's idea of an energy exchange is that she adds her super special profound and magical energy to a community by gracing it with her presence and her art, and Currawong improves the energy of the community with his awesome drumming and potent sexuality, and others give of their energy in the form of food and shelter for her and her family.

[miffy]

I wonder if you can rent a house in Nimbin & offer to pay in poetry?

[lilith]

I wonder if you can rent a house in Nimbin & offer to pay in poetry?

If you make a deep, profound connection with the owner at the right moment, probably.

Could take you a long time to find the right moment and the right owner though.

[SisiL78]

Back to the crazy hippies.....

I think Hellenna's idea of an energy exchange is that she adds her super special profound and magical energy to a community by gracing it with her presence and her art, and Currawong improves the energy of the community with his awesome drumming and potent sexuality, and others give of their energy in the form of food and shelter for her and her family.

I get the impression that maybe the "energy exchange" is how the home owners let them live there for less rent because they feel sorry for the kids and don't want them to live in a total dump. Plus, I'm sure that hte house has been thoroughly trashed by Hellena and Currawong so perhaps its just not rentable at this point without a large outlay of cash by the owners (I'm thinking H and C would NEVER pay for the damages).

I'm so confused. So Hellena thinks that she, the kids, AND Currawong are going to live with the hoarder? Is there going to be some 3 way action there too? These people are so gross (not the 3-way stuff, but the idea of 3 unbathed adults going at it on top of a pile of garbage while the kids are there).

[lilith]

From the few pictures I've seen Currawong actually seems to take decent care of the house. It doesn't look dirty or trashed, and it seems surprisingly orderly for a shack in the bush with that quantity of untamed children roaming free in it.

It's not going to win any home beautiful awards, but moving in with the friendly local hoarder will be a definite step down in living standards.

And I've seen these sorts of hoarders huts on communities, where nothing is ever thrown away and piles of junk are constantly being added as potential building materials or art supplies but never being used. They are so so so unsafe for kids in so many ways. Rusty, sharp metal, piles of stuff that will fall on them, the snakes and spiders that will be living among the trash...... There are so many hazards. Moving toddlers in there is insane, especially when they already have a perfectly nice home that they don't even have to pay market rent on.

I suspect the energy exchange is no longer working, and the owners have asked them to pay some actual cash. Or that they have made themselves unpopular on the community, and their landlord is being pressured by the other community members to move them on.

I've said it before, I can't see most communities being ok with the free ranging, neglected, unwashed, uneducated, foul mouthed children. They also wouldn't be ok with domestic violence, no matter who the perpetrator was, or with Currawong spreading his herpes infected sexuality around. Most of all, most communes dislike drama, and Hellenna seems to thrive on it and bring it everywhere she goes. That wouldn't go down well on a commune where everyone is just trying to live their own life their own way without dramas. That's why these communities were formed.