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A Vaccine Thread for EllaJac


Brainsample

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Haha well the study was from nyu so....?

The "study" was conducted by a known fraud.

Krigsman has close ties to the quack doctor (Wakefield) who first came up with the vaccine-autism claim. He claims a connection between vaccines and an illness in autistic children that isn't even recognized by the wider medical community (an illness originally made up by Wakefield via a study he admitted to fabricating) He also had his hospital privileges revoked for doing experimental research on autistic children without clearance to do so. His original proposal to do the research was rejected because of concerns about the risks to the kids. He went through with it anyway. He was also fined by the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners for lying about having his Texas medical license and covering up the sanctioned against him from the hospital that revoked his privileges.

This is the pony you're backing?

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I think there are some hot button topics that never go anywhere - peanut butter, circumcision, c-sections and birthing, and vaccinations.

How is peanut butter controversial?

Or did you mean peanut allergies?

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How is peanut butter controversial?

Or did you mean peanut allergies?

Obviously you've never seen a throw-down sparked by the crunchy-versus-creamy debate ;)

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How is peanut butter controversial?

Or did you mean peanut allergies?

Apparently, both. At least if you read through the epic throwdown thread on the old FJ.

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Oh lol. Duhhhhhh. Well I like both kinds (of peanut butter)

I am pro vaccinations. I realize that everyone has their own approach to risk/benefit analysis when it comes to themselves and their children but I think the nature of this debate would be different if people had more of a collective memory of what is like for people suffering from VPD like Polio, Measles, Rubella. My grandmother had polio as a child and one of her legs is a good 4-5 inches shorter than the other. She was very grateful to be able to vaccinate her children against the disease that profoundly affected her life.

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I think there are some hot button topics that never go anywhere - peanut butter, circumcision, c-sections and birthing, and vaccinations.

best summary eva! I'd add pet kefir and vegetarianism to the balance :P

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best summary eva! I'd add pet kefir and vegetarianism to the balance :P

Also bf-ing vs. formula =)

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Guest Anonymous

And the side argument: pro-pitbull or anti-pitbull.

Oh, good call. Everyone has a strong opinion and it never fails to get ugly. I'll be over here sitting on my hands and not typing.

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Oh, good call. Everyone has a strong opinion and it never fails to get ugly. I'll be over here sitting on my hands and not typing.

Weirdly enough, I'm a total cat person who doesn't really like dogs (I don't dislike them, they just don't do anything for me)- except for pit bulls. I love 'em.

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Something interesting we studied in one of my nursing classes was that increased rates of autism and learning disabilities can also be linked to advances in medical technology, as well as ability to diagnose those ailments. Just going by memory, some studies have shown that up to 25% of children born "very prematurely" are likely to develop autism and preemies in general are just at a higher risk for autism and/or learning disabilities. As medical technology gets better, premture babies that would have just died before are living- but they're living with long term complications. Add that to the fact that premature births are up over 35% since the early 80s (iirc, 11% or 12% of babies are born early in the U.S.) and its no wonder we've got more kids with autism.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. And let's add in that as diagnoses of moderate to severe autism are rising, diagnoses of mental retardation are falling. The symptoms are the same--the criteria is now defined differently.

I have an unvaccinated child who would have been diagnosed with autism. I think it is waaaayyyy over diagnosed....but find it curious....why not a widespread study on two comparative groups...the vaccinated and unvaccinated. We know why this study is not being done on a wide scale. The results are obvious...autism is rare to nil amidst non vaccinators. I think the shots cause learning disabilities...but again....where is the true comparative research on this?

I just can't get over your first sentence here. Why would your unvaccinated child have been diagnosed with autism?

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And the side argument: pro-pitbull or anti-pitbull.

And the other side argument for cats: declawing vs. not declawing

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Let's not forget the most dividing of topics:

Toilet paper: Over or Under?

AHAHAHHA I had to google that one, never had this debate ever! But I actually don't really like paper toilet hung on the wall, I have it in front of the toilet in a basket - I realize no guys are living here! but I hate having to have to reach for it on the sides.

BTW totally useless line but in Brazil the paper is always too far to get it after you're done, so you always have to get it first. Takes a while to get the hang of it /end of useless trivia related to Brazil.

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Who here is very comfortable with vaccine-manufacturers being 100% immune from any harm that comes about as a result of vaccine use? No matter what. No matter what happens, you can never sue a vaccine-maker for any harm. Why should I blindly put dozens of vaccines into my daughter when I have no recourse if it turns out one of those vaccines was improperly made, or even contained ingredients (like mercury or thimerosal) known to be dangerous?

We'll take out chance with measles, thanks.

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Let's not forget the most dividing of topics:

Toilet paper: Over or Under?

I swear my partner and I use separate bathrooms for this reason alone! It is the one thing of living together 3 years we cannot get over.

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Who here is very comfortable with vaccine-manufacturers being 100% immune from any harm that comes about as a result of vaccine use? No matter what. No matter what happens, you can never sue a vaccine-maker for any harm. Why should I blindly put dozens of vaccines into my daughter when I have no recourse if it turns out one of those vaccines was improperly made, or even contained ingredients (like mercury or thimerosal) known to be dangerous?

We'll take out chance with measles, thanks.

If your daughter experienced a true vaccine injury you would receive compensation from a fund made just for that. The alternative to creating that fund and giving the manufacturers immunity (which I doubt applies to true negligence on their parts like being made incorrectly, in any case you'd get your $$$) was having no one to make the vaccines due to the low profit from them and high risk of being sued every time someone's genetic disorder manifested close to a vaccine being given (DPT scare and genetic seizure disorders, MMR and autism) or by horrible chance a child died of SIDS or some similar sudden tragedy coincidentally timed with vaccines being given.

And it's not just YOU taking your chance with measles, you're taking a chance with the lives of babies who can't be immunized yet as well as those of children and adults who are immunocompromised.

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Who here is very comfortable with vaccine-manufacturers being 100% immune from any harm that comes about as a result of vaccine use? No matter what. No matter what happens, you can never sue a vaccine-maker for any harm. Why should I blindly put dozens of vaccines into my daughter when I have no recourse if it turns out one of those vaccines was improperly made, or even contained ingredients (like mercury or thimerosal) known to be dangerous?

Not true.

Under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP), it's true you can't sure in civil court if you're covered by VICP. But, VICP only applies when "the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings." (42 USC §§ 300aa–22 (b)). So if the vaccine is improperly made? Sue away.

Honestly, if you're going to make such claims, make sure they're correct.

As for mercury, you get more from eating fish than you do from vaccines. But no one's complaining about "Big Fishing."

ETA: Oh, and VICP is designed to make is easier and cheaper for parents to get compensation. Civil courts are crazy slow, and proof can be tough and expensive. VICP covers attorney's fees, and you just have to show it was possible, not that it was the actual cause.

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We'll take out chance with measles, thanks.

That is a flippant comment laced with ignorance. It's true that measles and pertussis have been the top two vaccine preventable diseases to show up now that fewer people are vaccinating. Both can be dangerous and have a decent mortality rate however most kids will recover and carry on with a normal life. However, it is only a matter of time before we start seeing outbreaks of polio or diphtheria which have high mortality and morbidity rates.

Next time you write that comment above try this instead...

"We'll take our chance with polio, thanks." or "We'll take our chance with tetanus, thanks."

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Next time you write that comment above try this instead...

"We'll take our chance with polio, thanks." or "We'll take our chance with tetanus, thanks."

Or at least "We'll take our chances, and that of every baby below vaccinating age we come into contact with, with illness, disability, and death. Thanks."

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Oh lol. Duhhhhhh. Well I like both kinds (of peanut butter)

I am pro vaccinations. I realize that everyone has their own approach to risk/benefit analysis when it comes to themselves and their children but I think the nature of this debate would be different if people had more of a collective memory of what is like for people suffering from VPD like Polio, Measles, Rubella. My grandmother had polio as a child and one of her legs is a good 4-5 inches shorter than the other. She was very grateful to be able to vaccinate her children against the disease that profoundly affected her life.

Pretty much this. My mom nearly died of Swine Flu during the epidemic in the 60s, and two of my great-aunts were nurses during some dire, dire epidemics. When it comes to vaccinations, the older generations pretty much remind all the new moms of the luxury of having vaccines available for very serious communicable diseases like polio.

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