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Abortion on a 10yo rape victim? Lose your licence in KS


Alecto

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Not to cause a war I am just trying to understand

A: Does it say anywhere she was mentally challenged?

B: Does it make a difference?

C: If the 10 year old did not WANT an abortion would it make a difference?

I don't think it makes a difference whether she is mentally disabled or not. I have a ten year old daughter who is quite brilliant for her age. She is not even shoulder high to me, likes sparkly pink nail polish and begs for My Little Ponies. She does resist medical treatment because it is scary; I have to cajole her into taking medicine and she was afraid to go to the hospital when she broke her arm because omg-shots-surgery-owie. At this point in a little girl's life, the parents are making her health decisions with very little input from the child. I talk to the doctors, I choose what will happen, and she is going to do what the doctors and I decide whether she likes it or not.

From that perspective, I don't really understand why the ten year old's opinion was such a huge issue. A ten year old cannot even begin to comprehend the long term implications of a pregnancy. I am sure my little girl would not want to undergo chemotherapy if she had cancer, and this would not even be a blip on my radar. Her wishes are important to me, but not *that* important. A ten year old who is pregnant is in a medical crisis from which her parents and doctors need to save her. Her parents and doctor have every moral/ethical/hopefully legal right to make a treatment plan and present it to her as the only option.

If this was my daughter, I would not have even told her she was pregnant. I would ask the doctor to put her under anesthesia and perform the abortion and we would refer to it in vague terms like "tummy problems". If there was a moral cross to carry, I would be the one doing it. But I would have absolutely no ambivalence. I think this doctor deserves a Nobel Prize for taking on this level of risk to her career to save this poor abused child.

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It can make a difference in being able to consent to medical procedures. Though I don't have an example at this age, I know that there was a case where a 20 year old with Downs was raped and got pregnant, and her parents (who had a conservatorship) were the ones who had to agree to the abortion since she wasn't able to understand the medical implications.

It can also make a difference in how the girl understands the situation. Which can, in turn affect how much harm is caused psychologically from having the give birth.

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If this was my daughter, I would not have even told her she was pregnant. I would ask the doctor to put her under anesthesia and perform the abortion and we would refer to it in vague terms like "tummy problems". If there was a moral cross to carry, I would be the one doing it. But I would have absolutely no ambivalence. I think this doctor deserves a Nobel Prize for taking on this level of risk to her career to save this poor abused child.

Emmie, may I ask whether you'd consider telling her when she is older? Would you consider hushing it up :?:

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Emmie, may I ask whether you'd consider telling her when she is older? Would you consider hushing it up :?:

If it was relevant for medical records, sure. Otherwise, I would not want to burden an already burdened young adult. This little girl has a lot of healing to do. She has been raped by a trusted family member, an adult who was supposed to be protecting her from this crap. It could take a long time to get perspective on this.

I can only imagine the guilt and horror her parents feel. I don't know enough to say whether they were negligent or God forbid aware of the situation as it was occurring. Just giving them the benefit of the doubt, I imagine they would feel awful that they could not protect her from this horror and would want to spare her even more of it.

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If it was relevant for medical records, sure. Otherwise, I would not want to burden an already burdened young adult. This little girl has a lot of healing to do. She has been raped by a trusted family member, an adult who was supposed to be protecting her from this crap. It could take a long time to get perspective on this.

I can only imagine the guilt and horror her parents feel. I don't know enough to say whether they were negligent or God forbid aware of the situation as it was occurring. Just giving them the benefit of the doubt, I imagine they would feel awful that they could not protect her from this horror and would want to spare her even more of it.

I think you make very good points. This is so far past the abortion, with drugs, this could be a blip on the screen of her life, but the fact she was raped by a family member, is something that is so much bigger. The healing that has to be done, to get past the rape itself enough to move on in life, must be so hard. If she is mentally challenged you add so many other issues possibly on top. This child needed protection and help, this Doctor did the right thing. I agree with what was said earlier if the Doctor needed to jump hurdles or break a law to get this child proper care, the laws are wrong not the doctor.

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Wow... I cannot imagine forcing an abortion on a 10 year old and/or not even telling her she was pregnant... wow...

To me it's one thing if the 10 year old consents it completely flips it around if she is unaware or non-consensual.

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Wow... I cannot imagine forcing an abortion on a 10 year old and/or not even telling her she was pregnant... wow...

To me it's one thing if the 10 year old consents it completely flips it around if she is unaware or non-consensual.

But if she's mentally disabled, she might not even understand what being pregnant means. And even if she did, after all she went through, I don't think she needs to be burdened with yet another thing. I was still playing with dolls when I was 10, I sure as hell wouldn't have understood the consequences of having a baby.

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Wow... I cannot imagine forcing an abortion on a 10 year old and/or not even telling her she was pregnant... wow...

To me it's one thing if the 10 year old consents it completely flips it around if she is unaware or non-consensual.

What the fuck? Really!? A 10-year-old? Normally, I would be open about what was going on to the kid. However, a 10-year-old is in no position to make a decision regarding pregnancy, ESPECIALLY if she was already traumatized by being raped by her perverted, pedophile uncle! "Forced" abortion indeed--you'd rather she actually give birth? A 10-year-old? Really?

Edited for clarity.

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Wow... I cannot imagine forcing an abortion on a 10 year old and/or not even telling her she was pregnant... wow...

To me it's one thing if the 10 year old consents it completely flips it around if she is unaware or non-consensual.

Wow as a parent of 4 kids 2 of them being girls.....if one of mine had this happen at 10 I mean seriously 10!!! This would be exactly how I would handle it. Why would you even tell her if you didn't have to? After being raped isnt that enough mentally for her to deal with why add to it?

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If it was relevant for medical records, sure. Otherwise, I would not want to burden an already burdened young adult. This little girl has a lot of healing to do. She has been raped by a trusted family member, an adult who was supposed to be protecting her from this crap. It could take a long time to get perspective on this.

I can only imagine the guilt and horror her parents feel. I don't know enough to say whether they were negligent or God forbid aware of the situation as it was occurring. Just giving them the benefit of the doubt, I imagine they would feel awful that they could not protect her from this horror and would want to spare her even more of it.

I can tell you right now, if my mom ended up having to tell me I had been pregnant and had an abortion at a young age with no information given to me at that time I would be royally pissed. A 10 year old may still be young, but she`s not a 3 year old and not oblivious to the events in her own life and likely understands that there is more too it than "tummy trouble". Especially since she has likely experienced this thing called menstruation at some point and understands why it happens and what it means when it doesn't happen (unless mom really dropped the ball and just told her "it's an owie and will go away soon".)

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Wow as a parent of 4 kids 2 of them being girls.....if one of mine had this happen at 10 I mean seriously 10!!! This would be exactly how I would handle it. Why would you even tell her if you didn't have to? After being raped isnt that enough mentally for her to deal with why add to it?

Maybe it's just me, but I firmly believe that most ten year olds are in a position to have the right to knowledge about the medical treatment they are receiving and why.

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But if she's mentally disabled, she might not even understand what being pregnant means. And even if she did, after all she went through, I don't think she needs to be burdened with yet another thing. I was still playing with dolls when I was 10, I sure as hell wouldn't have understood the consequences of having a baby.

I wouldn't have understood the consequences of having a baby, but I would understand that my parents were bullshitting me if they "just something to help your tummy troubles" in regards to being put under for surgery after getting raped.

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Maybe I was a with it 10 year old. I was sobbing at 11 because I couldn't legally get married for at least 7 more years which meant I couldnt have a baby for almost 8. :) I didn't know the specifics of sex, but I knew a man and a woman slept in the same bed and the woman had to have periods before she was old enough to get pregnant.

I am not saying 10 is not too young to be a mother, I am just saying that I don't think any age is so young she doesn't have the right to make that choice.

I could definitely see a perspective shift if I didn't believe abortion was killing a child. If I just saw it like a surgicial procedure I could see MORE where folks are coming from, but I still cannot imagine forcing it on my child. I believe in clear and open communication and that includes hard horrible sad dirty subjects.

Now, if the 10 year old was actually mentally incapable of understanding that definitely puts a lot more of the decision into her parents' hands. I cannot find anywhere where she was actually mentally incapable of making this decision. In this care it sounds like she told the doctor "A baby will grow inside of me, and I don't want that." or something to that effect.

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CH, I agree with you that kids aren't stupid and might suspect that there was something else going on, but if that had happened to me, when I was 10, I think I would understand if I found out later that I had been pregnant and not told, to spare me from further trauma. It might take some getting used to, sure, but I could understand why a parent would do that.

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According to the OP, the little girl did know that she had a baby growing inside her and that it happened because of what her uncle did. It is also indicated that she did not want a baby to grow inside her.

I think that she had enough infomrarion for a 10 year old to voice her opinion. And she did indeed voice her opinion.

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Neuhaus:

Someone's 10 years old, and they were raped by their uncle and they understand that they've got a baby growing in their stomach and they don't want that.

It seems the child had at least some understanding of what was going on.

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According to the OP, the little girl did know that she had a baby growing inside her and that it happened because of what her uncle did. It is also indicated that she did not want a baby to grow inside her.

I think that she had enough infomrarion for a 10 year old to voice her opinion. And she did indeed voice her opinion.

Well in that case, I have no idea why the doctor got into trouble. Did she really lose her licence over this? (I didn't read the link). Because that is bloody terrifying.

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Right, I believe the OP indicates that the 10 year old chose an abortion. My question was what if she didn't want an abortion.

And as far as the OP - I think she lost her license over falsifying information and approving late term abortions, but I might be wrong. It was 11 cases, the 10 year old was just one of the saddest/youngest.

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Right, I believe the OP indicates that the 10 year old chose an abortion. My question was what if she didn't want an abortion.

And as far as the OP - I think she lost her license over falsifying information and approving late term abortions, but I might be wrong. It was 11 cases, the 10 year old was just one of the saddest/youngest.

Do you really think a 10-year-old has the ability to make that kind of decision for herself? She's not mentally, emotionally, or physically prepared to raise the child, and when you add in the possibility of special needs due to incest, well...

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Maybe it's just me, but I firmly believe that most ten year olds are in a position to have the right to knowledge about the medical treatment they are receiving and why.

In general, maybe some. A child who has just been raped by a relative? Maybe not. If she knows, then she knows, but I think it would be a hard thing to know.

As for it being "forced"; it would depend on the medical situation, but I assume a 10 year old cannot bear a child without immense lifelong effects. What will this do to her body? The chances of carrying the child to viability are already low; this fetus does not have a great chance as it is. So how much are you willing to put the little girl through for that small chance? Months of morning sickness, followed by months of bedrest. Regular pelvic exams on a child who is still recovering from rape. A vaginal birth is probably impossible, so there will be a surgery and recovery. The pressure of a baby on a 10 year old's organs could cause lifelong issues with uterine prolapse and incontinence. I would never put my child through this just on the off chance that the fetus might survive. Fuck that.

In that case, an abortion would be similar to the time I made her take Tylenol for a fever, the time I dragged her to the hospital kicking and screaming to get her hand sewn up after a Halloween pumpkin carving fiasco, etc. I am all for choice in young women, but a 10 year old is *not* a young woman. It is a child who is not capable of weighing the risks and benefits. I care about my daughter's feelings, but I have to take action regardless of her feelings when her health is at risk.

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C: If the 10 year old did not WANT an abortion would it make a difference?

Mentally disabled doesn't necessarily mean 'incapable of making decisions.' If this were my daughter, I would sit her down, along with her doctor and a child psychologist, and discuss the pros and cons of the situation in terms she could understand. I'd then have the psychologist quiz her on it to ensure she actually understood what was going on enough to make the most informed decision someone in her situation could make.

If she chose to carry, then so be it. She'd be watched pretty much around the clock for the duration, likely followed by a c-section. I'd raise the resulting child alongside her - more as sisters than as mother and child. (There is no way I'd make her adopt the child out unless that was her expressed wish and had an understanding of what it meant.)

But if she didn't want the child - and the article suggests she categorically did not - then I'd do whatever it took to secure a safe and timely abortion for her.

Ten-year-old rape victims with less developed minds should not be forced into a situation that would be terrifying for a fully aware adult. The only way I'd permit the pregnancy – a dangerous situation - as a parent is if I saw sufficient evidence she understood enough about the situation to make the most informed decision her mind would allow.

If the child were sufficiently disabled that she could not understand the situation at all, then it would be abortion. No doubt about it.

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Since there was no dissonence in this situation. there should really be no controversy. If the child has said that she did wish the baby to grow inside her and to be born, then I think that psychologic intervention is necessary with both the childna d the parents. This intervention should commence right away and be completed quickly. Unless the 10 year old is very physically mature (has complete puberty and attained adult growth.) and very emotionally mature, the decision should be that of the parents/guardians.

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Florence - I am having a hard time understanding what you wrote. Are you saying if a 10 year old chose to carry the baby to term she needs psychiatric help??

I mean, I think that is true for a raped 10 year old either way, but it sounds like you are saying if a 10 year old wanted to keep the baby that proves she needs help psychologically?

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Do you really think a 10-year-old has the ability to make that kind of decision for herself? She's not mentally, emotionally, or physically prepared to raise the child, and when you add in the possibility of special needs due to incest, well...

As far as I'm concerned any 10 year old under my care would be getting an abortion (if pregnancy happened). I highly doubt at 10 that e sex was consensual. Pregnancy causes havoc on a healthy adult woman's body. A 10 year old child Is still developing and maturing. A pregnancy compromises the development of a body that young since the nutrients are diverted to the fetus. 10 year old bodies are not meant to go through labour and delivery.

Now I have no idea how I'd explain the procedure but it would be non-negotiable much like chemo for cancer or the regime for diabetes.

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