How much money could the Maxwell guys really make?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I am a bit confused. I can't see how they would make enough money on a small, family run, rather basic IT company & rather terrible (Christopher Maxwell) sideline photography business to support a family?

Is living THAT much cheaper in America that Australia?

How much could they possibly earn?

And how much would be the minimum you would need in Kansas to live a modest lifestyle with 2+ children on one income?

[lilith]

I am a bit confused. I can't see how they would make enough money on a small, family run, rather basic IT company & rather terrible (Christopher Maxwell) sideline photography business to support a family?

Is living THAT much cheaper in America that Australia?

How much could they possibly earn?

And how much would be the minimum you would need in Kansas to live a modest lifestyle with 2+ children on one income?

I think Steve got quite a large redundancy payout. They have said that the lord provided for them when Steve was given the option of being fired or made redundant, because it allowed him to leave the evil workforce and focus on his "ministry" (cult).

I think that, and the sales of chorepacks and their books, which are very well known and respected in fundie circles, are enough for the original Maxwell family.

I really don't get how the sons and their families are getting by, especially Nathan with three kids and Melanie's high risk pregnancies, which must cost a lot in doctors fees and hospital stays, certainly more than scamaritan will reimburse, unless they are unusually generous with Nathan's family cause he pimps for them and is part of a well known fundie family.

Steve must be subsidising the married sons, maybe paying them full time wages for ther part in the "ministry" and 1 ton ramp.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes, to them being sustained from the large payout from Boeing.

Beyond that, they seem to work very hard and with great 'diligence' and so even if their products are crappy, if they are pimping them out well then they probably do okay.

Their basic living costs are probably quite low, in that their properties are all mortgage-free, large numbers of adults live communally, and they shop in bulk and cook for large numbers, etc.

Obviously, they have a taste for the nice things in life and tend only to buy the 'best' brands in camera and IT equipment, kitchen and sewing machines etc, so they must have plenty of pocket money too.

I am surprised the younger men haven't made more of their obvious talents in house renovations, but Steve specifically said recently that they focus on IT because it generates more income and is better for their bodies in the long-term.

I would imagine that their unwillingness to take proper certificated training would seriously limit their ability to take on construction work for others, but if those boys wanted a way out of Maxwell Enterprises Unlimited, they could probably make quite a living buying and flipping houses, and just getting the works signed off by qualified heathens before selling on.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Hmmm. I wonder how much income their IT business generates. If the website is anything to go by it's pretty basic stuff & something most people could teach themselves-those 'Idiots Guide To' books would do the job ;D

[terranova]

The original Maxwell family seem to have quite low overheads too.

I imagine their house would be freehold, so no mortgage.

They almost never eat out and seem to eat very little, clearly no fancy expensive food in their house.

Their clothes are either handmade or pretty dull run of the mill stuff. Again, nothing fancy and expensive there.

They would have minimal schooling costs, no uniforms, no tuition fees, no excursions, camps, music lessons, sports. The kids would never ask for anthing like an x-box for Christmas, although they all do seem to have smartphones.

What few activities they do are probably quite cheap, like going to the zoo. No trips to Disneyland, frequent movie nights, anything like that.

On the expenses side, Uriah seems determind to cost them an arm and a leg in his attempt to rid himself of them. Then there's the cost of diesel when they're on the road which must be steep. They usually sleep in walmart carparks or bunk with host families, so no money wasted there. The books and stuff they sell looks cheap to put together and they would make a fair profit of them as they do all the printing etc themselves.

I also don't know how the sons support their wives, but if they have their homes debt free, that would be a large step towards cutting daily costs.

[Hevcoh]

Hmmm. I wonder how much income their IT business generates. If the website is anything to go by it's pretty basic stuff & something most people could teach themselves-those 'Idiots Guide To' books would do the job ;D

I've been working in IT for quite a while now, and that includes both Help Desk and other experiences. I'd say 80% of the calls we got on the helpdesk were things the users could do for themselves, and many of our other services could be done by the customers if they had the interest, time and energy tod o it themselves. Luckily for our business, they don't. So I can see even a small IT business being able to support a growing family, especially if they don'T have to pay for mortgage and what not.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

On the expenses side, Uriah seems determind to cost them an arm and a leg in his attempt to rid himself of them..

:lol: :clap:

[kpmom]

I am a bit confused. I can't see how they would make enough money on a small, family run, rather basic IT company & rather terrible (Christopher Maxwell) sideline photography business to support a family?

Is living THAT much cheaper in America that Australia?

How much could they possibly earn?

And how much would be the minimum you would need in Kansas to live a modest lifestyle with 2+ children on one income?

In addition to their basic IT company and Christopher's photography, don't forget about their books.

I think they make most of their money from book sales.

[Katiebug]

The Boeing payout couldn't have been THAT much. Steve was an engineer, right? We don't make the biggest salaries compared to, say, a doctor, but there are few career paths like engineering where a bachelor's degree can provide job stability and earning power. If they lived frugally while he was working and paid off their house, financially it may have been more like an early retirement.

Also, I think many expenses of working at home/having a home business can be tax deductible. I had a marketing professor in grad school who had a gross income of well over $200K/year but thanks to deductions related to his businesses and his home office/other expenses he had an income on paper of around $65K/year. That was when I first realized that working for a corporation is for chumps.

As for the younger generation, with a house bought free and clear and no childcare expenses plus serious couponing and gardening in the backyard, it would be quite reasonable to raise a family on a small income. Our mortgage and daycare bills are by far the biggest expenses we have; if we just paid property taxes on our house we could get by without any change in our lifestyle with around $1500/month in take home pay. As a family gets larger it would be harder based on food costs. I frequently see a fundie/fundie lite family with 5 or 6 young children at BJ's and their weekly grocery bill is upwards of $400.

The biggest issue I see is health care - I have no clue how the Maxwells cover medical expenses with Scamaritan as their only insurance; could they be getting Medicaid/SCHIP for the kids? Prenatal care doesn't come cheap, and even an uncomplicated vaginal birth in the hospital can cost into the 5-figures. Many hospitals around here offer write-downs to low-income uninsured patients. They're called "free bed funds". I wonder if the Maxwells claim to be uninsured and then get a charity write-down on their bills. Scamaritan is not legally considered insurance, right?

They do live in a very low cost of living area compared to me.

[Guest Anonymous]

The biggest issue I see is health care - I have no clue how the Maxwells cover medical expenses with Scamaritan as their only insurance; could they be getting Medicaid/SCHIP for the kids? Prenatal care doesn't come cheap, and even an uncomplicated vaginal birth in the hospital can cost into the 5-figures. Many hospitals around here offer write-downs to low-income uninsured patients. They're called "free bed funds". I wonder if the Maxwells claim to be uninsured and then get a charity write-down on their bills. Scamaritan is not legally considered insurance, right?

I would imagine that Steve would hear from God that it is fine to accept charity as evidence of Jesus smiling on them for their godly living.

After all, they don't believe in belonging to a mainstream church or sending children to youth club, but it All Hail King Jesus recently, when He led them to buy their extravagant swingset from a local church youth group who were selling one off....

[pixydust]

If you don't have a house payment, car payment, medical insurance, or cable TV you can live very cheaply in the US.

We don't have a house payment, and we are living on way less money than anyone we know. The next expensive thing for us is our medical insurance (deducted out of hubby's paycheck), our car payment, and hubby's meds....if we didn't have those, then we would be very comfortable (those are things that the Maxwell's go without). Cable is also really expensive, they don't have that (we don't either). I spend under $400 a month on groceries for 5 of us and they have a less diverse diet than my family. I could see them living on under $1500 a month, easily. If Kansas is cheaper than SE Virginia, then even less.

[HoneyBunny]

If you don't have a house payment, car payment, medical insurance, or cable TV you can live very cheaply in the US.

We don't have a house payment, and we are living on way less money than anyone we know. The next expensive thing for us is our medical insurance (deducted out of hubby's paycheck), our car payment, and hubby's meds....if we didn't have those, then we would be very comfortable (those are things that the Maxwell's go without). Cable is also really expensive, they don't have that (we don't either). I spend under $400 a month on groceries for 5 of us and they have a less diverse diet than my family. I could see them living on under $1500 a month, easily. If Kansas is cheaper than SE Virginia, then even less.

This. I don't know how many cars they have, but I'm certain the women don't each have one. Savings on car insurance and lisence plates would be big. No cable TV, Internet costs spread across 7 people, I don't think the women have cell phones (too many opportunities for salacious telemarketing calls), they eat next to nothing, don't drink alcohol, probably only drink water, ZERO entertainment costs, no hobby costs (we don't see the Maxwell women doing non-useful crafting (like the Seven Sisters), minimal eating out and "what some might call a vacation" trips, never flying anywhere (fear of pervertive TSA searches) and no friends to buy gifts for.

There is NO WAY Steve got a huge payout from his job(s). He got 1, possibly 1.5 years pay. He would not have stood a chance in a lawsuit. Who is going to award him big bucks for not wanting to do something required by a job he freely accepted?

[theologygeek]

The Maxwells started their website in 1998. They have been at their making money off God's name business for a long time. The kids probably got paid for helping. I'm sure they all have nest eggs. Even if what they do now doesn't bring in much, they still get paid in the family business. I doubt any of them will leave the family. There's good money in the God business.

[Seven Severn]

While I can't speak to their income, I can speak to the cost of living in small town Kansas. A family of four who lives very modestly could live on $35,000/yr. That's with no cable, no daycare, no pricey habits or hobbies. Of course, location makes a difference: Leavenworth would be cheaper than Lawrence, but more expensive than Ft. Scott.

[YPestis]

I've mentioned this before but the maxwell style of living together until one roof really saves an incredible amount of money. we sometimes forget how much mortgage eats out of most people's budget. With their house probably paid for, and so many adults earning income through their various businesses, even if each adult only earns say $15/yr (which is pretty low for full time workers), subtract for food and insurance, that's still plenty of money to for nice electronics.

The maxwells take cheap vacations for such a large family. They drive in their bus and avoid hotels by sleeping in there or stay at friend's houses. They rarely eat out and they cook things from scratch. In fact their biggest expense is probably weekly grocery bills. I don't think they starve or anything, and their baking indicates they probably have overdoses of sugary concoction like any good American but food is not a huge expenditure compared to other items.

Nathan and co use Samaritan for their insurance. They said they have $200k of hospital bills covered by them. It helps that they are fundie royalty and the only charity fundies truly have passion for is unborn babies. Nathan has no mortgage, plus his house has old furnitures that donated or thrift shop so they live frugally too. Nathan probably doesn't make that much is my guess but having no mortgage allows him to support a family on very little.

I bet the rest of the maxwell family uses Samaritan too. Right there a huge expense of private business is take out with no real health insurance. Other expenses include movies and clothes. The maxwell avoid all media entertainment and only seem to buy plain clothes. I doubt they are buying designer duds. They have also mentioned going to thrift shops so they appear to have frugal leanings. They probably do have large electronic expenses as can be seen by their smartphones but that can be deducted as a business expense.

They boys have a construction business plus Steve and co built their current house so they already have tools to renovate joseph's house. Steve's new house would probably be outside their price range if they had to pay someone else to build it so buying all the equipment is a cheaper way to get a new house for them. The maxwell look like they live nicer than their actual income suggests because they built the house themselves and they havoffice stuff (cars, electronics) which double as business expenditure.

Really, if you break it down, the family is pretty frugal. Their electronics are business expenses which is legitimate reason to buy nicer items (ie cameras, computers, smartphones, truck) and their biggest expenses are not that big (see above). Steve is crazy but he is pretty smart about the mortgage free house. It really does save a ton of money to not have mortgage. Saving that money alone means tons of new electronics and even a new car sometimes.

I aIso know people that live as well as the maxwells in that area of the country. It doesn't take a ton of money, just a good job or two. Living there is cheap there.

[mirele]

Also, I think many expenses of working at home/having a home business can be tax deductible. I had a marketing professor in grad school who had a gross income of well over $200K/year but thanks to deductions related to his businesses and his home office/other expenses he had an income on paper of around $65K/year. That was when I first realized that working for a corporation is for chumps.

The biggest issue I see is health care - I have no clue how the Maxwells cover medical expenses with Scamaritan as their only insurance; could they be getting Medicaid/SCHIP for the kids? Prenatal care doesn't come cheap, and even an uncomplicated vaginal birth in the hospital can cost into the 5-figures. Many hospitals around here offer write-downs to low-income uninsured patients. They're called "free bed funds". I wonder if the Maxwells claim to be uninsured and then get a charity write-down on their bills. Scamaritan is not legally considered insurance, right?

They do live in a very low cost of living area compared to me.

This is why some of us keep our jobs with evil too big to fail companies...because we can get on the company's group insurance. I have three chronic illnesses (depression, diabetes, GERD) which made me (until Obamacare) absolutely uninsurable at any cost. Now, I can get insurance, but there's no way I could pay for it outside of being on a group plan. Yet, I can hold down a complex, full-time job because my conditions are all treatable with diet and medication.

So no, working for a corporation is not for chumps. :) It's smart.

I suspect that the hospital births are being covered in part by Medicare, as it's my understanding most hospitals are simply set up to apply for Medicare for anything beyond an uncomplicated vaginal birth if insurance is insufficient or nonexistent. I have no idea if the kids are on SCHIP or if the Maxwell clan is "trusting the Lord" aka the fact that they can't be refused care if they show up at a hospital emergency room.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

If Steve was an engineer does he do consulting and just not mention it? They could have inherited some money. Did he retire from Air Forces or quit? Retirement would mean a steady pension for basic expenses--which aren't horrible given they don't have a mortgage--only property tax and upkeep--for the house. I don't remember--do they garden and can/freeze food?

[YPestis]

If Steve was an engineer does he do consulting and just not mention it? They could have inherited some money. Did he retire from Air Forces or quit? Retirement would mean a steady pension for basic expenses--which aren't horrible given they don't have a mortgage--only property tax and upkeep--for the house. I don't remember--do they garden and can/freeze food?

I don't think Steve was in that military long enough to get a pension. The impression I got was he served briefly then worked mostly at corporate jobs before "coming home". He may be doing consulting work. However, I don't remember he actually worked all those years as an engineer, especially near the end of his corporate career. In his books, he mentioned jobs in corporate that included more logistically work, rarely engineering work. It's common for people to train as engineers who then leave that field to try to enter management for money. Certain fields can reach their pay ceiling pretty quickly. At this point, his income is probably mostly from his business.

[denimjumper]

What does Nathan do again? I can't even remember.

A Boeing severance package is not doled out in perpetuity. Steve perhaps got a year at MOST in severance and perhaps has a pension.

I doubt they subsidize their kids. I thought "leave and cleave" was the mantra.

[Sola]

I suspect that Steve-o has a pension of some sorts. Their house will be paid off and all the repairs they do themselves. From what I can gather where they live is a cheap area, plus they don't eat out often, don't drink, cook from scratch, sew, bake etc - all that saves money.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I suspect that Steve-o has a pension of some sorts. Their house will be paid off and all the repairs they do themselves. From what I can gather where they live is a cheap area, plus they don't eat out often, don't drink, cook from scratch, sew, bake etc - all that saves money.

Plus no cable tv, no salon hair cuts, no pricey wardrobes, no toys, no Pepsi, no entertainment, no joy.

They do, of course, have to rebuild the bus every time the drive it. I wonder how long they'll do that? Gas here is almost $4 a gallon--diesel more. When will it be cheaper to mooch a room at a church and haul sleeping bags in a normal church van instead? Plug the Crock-pot in in the Church kitchen or spare room and they're good!

[sparkles]

I think cost of living in their particular area has a lot to do with their appearance of being well off and it's probably a major factor in why most fundie families tend to live in more rural areas, or at least areas outside of major metropolitan area. No freaking way the Maxwells could maintain the same standard of living if they lived where I do--New York suburb with one of the highest tax rates in the country and a sky-high COL. We live in a modest house, don't take vacations or live extravagantly but both of us have second jobs that enable us to have extras. I'd give anything to move out of here but we stay because Mr. Sparkles has 20 years at his job, a decent pension and great health insurance--and that health insurance alone is enough to keep us here.

I also get the feeling that there's other Maxwell money floating around. Not a lot of transparency though, so we'll really never know. Same with the sons' businesses. No one appears to be hurting but they all still seem to be tied to Steve's apron strings...er, toolbelt.

[Justme]

They have blogged before that Nate has consulting jobs with various small business.

[kpmom]

I also get the feeling that there's other Maxwell money floating around. Not a lot of transparency though, so we'll really never know. Same with the sons' businesses. No one appears to be hurting but they all still seem to be tied to Steve's apron strings...er, toolbelt.

It's possible Steve inherited money from his father. As you say, who knows?

Also, Steve is old enough now to dip into any 401k accounts or IRAs he might have.

[Witsec7]

I'd love to see their tax returns. I suspect that these fundies all use their ministries as a means of accruing tax free income. If Steve does have a stash of cash, he can easily make tax deductible donations to his own ministry. I also think that they manipulate the salaries of their employees so that the earnings come in below taxable levels. Once the family begins to shed tax deductions as the children age out to adulthood, these exemptions are a great tool for sheltering tax liability.