You're A Biblical Christian? Read Your Own Damn Holy Book!

[debrand]

After going in circles with scarygirl, I think that it is obvious to everyone that she has not read her own holy book.

 

She is just one of many conservative/evangilical/funamentalist Chirstians who claim to be bible believers or bible literalists and yet haven't actually read the book through. If a person believes that a book contains the answer to life and everything in it, why the hell wouldn't they take the time to read the freaking thing? However, if it was only their own damned salvation that they worried about, it would be no big deal. If they don't care enough to sit down and read their supposedly holy book, what should I care?

 

However...

 

When you start using your bible to inact laws against homosexuals, prevent women access to contraception, try to claim that your persecuted for following the bible and feel that you can judge who is and isn't a 'true/real' Christian then you're ethically bound to read the thing.

 

I have noticed that 'bible believing' Christians react one of two ways to being shown verses that contradict their interpretation. Either they are surprised such verses exist or they physically can't see the verses and don't respond to them.

 

I've come to the conclusion that many evangelicals/conservative/fundamentalist don't really worship god or Jesus. They don't respect their own holy book. They pick a few verses to support their beliefs and discard everything else. Jesus, the bible and everything else is just an excuse to make them feel good about what they already believe. Atheists and other nonbelievers have a lot more respect for the bible and Jesus then they do.

 

Note: This rant does not apply to all Christians just the hypocrites.

[Guest Anonymous]

[snip]

I have noticed that 'bible believing' Christians react one of two ways to being shown verses that contradict their interpretation. Either they are surprised such verses exist or they physically can't see the verses and don't respond to them.

[snip]

You're missing a classic here, debrand. They'll often say that the bible passages that go against their belief system were only ever intended to apply to that one specific situation (say, for one specific biblical character) whereas the passages that they believe in are the hard-and-fast, universal rules for all time. How can they tell the difference? Who knows!

[Deleted07]

I entirely agree with your sentiments!

They pick and choose which parts, to support their specific views and cannot handle it when they get their arse handed to them for not really knowing their Bible!

I just had a similar discussion with some people from the 19KAC Facebook page. They were talking about Biblical marriage being 1 man, 1 woman. I mentioned of course that in The Bible many of the prophets and people in God's favor had several wives, slaves and concubines and even used rape as a method of war. These are Biblical written facts! But oh not they couldn't dare accept that... One woman tried to link me to an article offsite that tried to say why it was OK back then for men to have multiple wives, and said it was different times then! OK so why is it OK for you explain away that it was different times and somehow these things were OK then and NOT ok now? WTF? lol!!!

I told her straight its just picking and choosing, The Bible if full of these contradictions. She said prove to me where there are contradictions in The Bible, I bet you can't find any. I listed like 10 in Genesis alone! lol!!!

Of course then she got really nasty saying I was calling God a liar, how dare I try to presume I know what God is saying, and that I would steam in Hell. Better yet, *I* was the one picking and choosing what *I* wanted to see in The Bible! Then of course she blocked me ;-)

They are infact hypocrites and when you point out the contradictions in their own good book, they scamper off under their troll bridge, because they can't handle the heat and sun you shrine on their pitiful pea of knowledge.

I highly agree these people need to educate themselves, and if they are going to start saying shit they sure as Hell better back it up, and not just get pissy when people prove them wrong and run off getting "blocky" because they don't like what they hear.

[formergothardite]

I have learned more about the Bible here than I have in all my years in church. A new tidbit that was just pointed out to me:

Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.â€

This is in Samuel, God incites David to take the census.

Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

In Chronicles, same story, except it is Satan who incites David to take the census.

Yeah, there are some mistakes in the Bible, but Christians will never admit it.

[crassy]

Note: This rant does not apply to all Christians just the hypocrites.

It is nearly impossible to not be even slightly hypocritical though. The bible contradicts itself and to follow the entire thing completely would leave a person not knowing if they are coming or going. Kill, don't kill, love, don't love, do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that. Everyone who follows the bible cherry picks at it, it is just that some people choose to cherry pick the nice bits and be good people and others choose to be dickheads by following the nasty bits.

[Deleted07]

So true Crassy! Reminds me of this quote from Reverend LoveJoy from The Simpsons!

"...oh just about everything is a sin, have you ever sat down and read this thing? *holds up Bible* Technically we're not allowed to go to the bathroom."

:lol:

[debrand]

scarygirl was a good case in point. She didn't acknowledge any bible verse that was quoted to her; instead, she ignored them as if she couldn't see that they were there. Note to people like her: The bible verse doesn't disappear because you pretend it isn't there.

I read the thread on gay marriage before I had my coffee on so I can't help ranting a bit.

You're right sogba. I've had mulitple conversations with bible literalists who use the Old Testament to prove their point. When I point out that you can't follow one biblical law without following others, they either ignore me or explain that they only pick the moral laws of the Old Testament to follow. They never give an explanation as to how they decide a law is moral or not.

As exoticfamiliarity points out, many of them get very angry and scream persecution if you ask them to be consistent.

I have no problem with people who want to use their belief system in their own personal lives. Your religion teaches you that homosexuality and birth control is wrong? Fine. Don't use birth control or sleep with your own sex. Although I think that it is crappy reasoning, you can justify yourself by saying it is your belief. However, the moment that you decide that your faith should dictate what other people do, you better be prepared to defend your views in a logical manner. Just saying, "I believe," will no longer cut it.

[OkToBeTakei]

Could never get into it. The Bible. Print is awfully small, funny old chapters, strange grammar. Not a catchy title plus somebody spoiled it for me and told me the main character dies (sorry if that ruins it for anybody.) Who wrote it anyway? :P

All frivolity/sarcasm aside I agree. You can interpret just about any passage to fill whatever need you may have to suit your view should you be that way inclined. What is scary is that those that are inclined tend to use it to support their own brand of hate. The fact it is 'The Bible' appears to reinforce their own brand of I am right 'see here is the proof.'

[Rosa]

All Christians pick and choose. Hell, all members of a denomination pick and choose from the beliefs of their own little subset of Christians. Thoughtful Christians can tell you their method. Unthoughtful ones say "MY CHURCH IS THE ONLY ONE THAT DOESN'T PICK AND CHOOSE"

That's the only difference. The "Bible literalists" are pretending they really follow the whole thing. Most everyone else admits there's no way to do it.

[singsingsing]

Christianity was never supposed to be about the Bible, it was supposed to be about Jesus. The Bible didn't even exist as a cohesive document until long after Jesus's time. The problem is that the Bible is full of all sorts of nifty rules, regulations, and commandments that can be interpreted and twisted to suit those who feel the need to lead highly controlled lives, and to control the lives of others. Biblical literalists are ironically the least true to the teachings of Jesus, because they elevate the Bible to the status of God. Fundamentalists talk a lot about Jesus but they believe in him about as much as an agnostic does - otherwise they wouldn't be so obsessed with homosexuality, birth control, and the length of skirts, to the exclusive of, you know, loving their neighbours, feeding the hungry, and caring for the vulnerable.

[CanadianHippie]

I have learned more about the Bible here than I have in all my years in church. A new tidbit that was just pointed out to me:

Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.â€

This is in Samuel, God incites David to take the census.

Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

In Chronicles, same story, except it is Satan who incites David to take the census.

Yeah, there are some mistakes in the Bible, but Christians will never admit it.

It could be that God and Satan both wanted to have a good idea of Israel and its people. :D

Or a bunch of people wrote the bible but never bothered to maintain a halfway decent erm... bible... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_(writing) for their works.

[Loveday]

Christianity was never supposed to be about the Bible, it was supposed to be about Jesus. The Bible didn't even exist as a cohesive document until long after Jesus's time. The problem is that the Bible is full of all sorts of nifty rules, regulations, and commandments that can be interpreted and twisted to suit those who feel the need to lead highly controlled lives, and to control the lives of others. Biblical literalists are ironically the least true to the teachings of Jesus, because they elevate the Bible to the status of God. Fundamentalists talk a lot about Jesus but they believe in him about as much as an agnostic does - otherwise they wouldn't be so obsessed with homosexuality, birth control, and the length of skirts, to the exclusive of, you know, loving their neighbours, feeding the hungry, and caring for the vulnerable.

QFT. :clap:

[luckystone]

It is nearly impossible to not be even slightly hypocritical though. The bible contradicts itself and to follow the entire thing completely would leave a person not knowing if they are coming or going. Kill, don't kill, love, don't love, do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that. Everyone who follows the bible cherry picks at it, it is just that some people choose to cherry pick the nice bits and be good people and others choose to be dickheads by following the nasty bits.

So true! Well said.

[wtfrenchtoast]

scarygirl was a good case in point. She didn't acknowledge any bible verse that was quoted to her; instead, she ignored them as if she couldn't see that they were there. Note to people like her: The bible verse doesn't disappear because you pretend it isn't there.

I read the thread on gay marriage before I had my coffee on so I can't help ranting a bit.

You're right sogba. I've had mulitple conversations with bible literalists who use the Old Testament to prove their point. When I point out that you can't follow one biblical law without following others, they either ignore me or explain that they only pick the moral laws of the Old Testament to follow. They never give an explanation as to how they decide a law is moral or not.

As exoticfamiliarity points out, many of them get very angry and scream persecution if you ask them to be consistent.

I have no problem with people who want to use their belief system in their own personal lives. Your religion teaches you that homosexuality and birth control is wrong? Fine. Don't use birth control or sleep with your own sex. Although I think that it is crappy reasoning, you can justify yourself by saying it is your belief. However, the moment that you decide that your faith should dictate what other people do, you better be prepared to defend your views in a logical manner. Just saying, "I believe," will no longer cut it.

So much truth. :clap:

I don't give a flying fuck what most people believe. If you think I'm going to burn in hell for using birth control, that's cool. You don't have to justify that to me. UNLESS you start trying to impose that on me through the law. Then I won't stand for "It's what I believe." No. You give me a good, legal, non-religious basis for your argument or you stop trying to legislate it. I'm not saying everyone has to justify everything they believe, I can't even do that. The difference is that I don't try to make my arbitrary beliefs law.

[doggie]

these are great posts and very true. one thing about the bible I get a kick out of is if they had all of Jesus's words and knew all his details while he lived why does the bible not know when Jesus was born and worse when he died? You would think those details would have been preserved along with his words.

[Coconut Flan]

All of these things stated above are why I could never be a fundamentalist.

If the fundamentalists wanted to truly follow Jesus why not start here?

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

KJV as they prefer.

He didn't leave out any specific groups.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It could be that God and Satan both wanted to have a good idea of Israel and its people. :D

Or a bunch of people wrote the bible but never bothered to maintain a halfway decent erm... bible... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_(writing) for their works.

Or that Satan is actually just a mere angel (ie. an aspect of divinity, not a thing in the sky with white wings) who acts as a metaphorical prosecutor, according to the Hebrew Bible, and is not the separate source of all evil as portrayed in the Christian tradition.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Re picking and choosing:

I know this is a really, really common criticism, along with the allegation of being a hypocrite.

From my POV, it's important to clarify that someone picking and choosing, as oppose to simply adopting any belief or philiosophy 100%, can show that they have functioning brain cells and an ability to reason, evaluate, select and otherwise exercise their free will. In other words, I don't see it as a bad thing.

The "bad thing", IMHO, would be (a) using your beliefs as a reason to deprive others of their rights, without entertaining logical argument on whether this is actually good for society, and (2) ignoring the good parts of your teachings, which may actually limit your actions.

Going further, I'd also say that a "bad thing" is using your religion as something that causes you to impose rules on other people, without modifying your own actions. I think this is part of what separates a fundie/fanatic from a person who is merely really religious.

[jenny_islander]

I have learned more about the Bible here than I have in all my years in church. A new tidbit that was just pointed out to me:

Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.â€

This is in Samuel, God incites David to take the census.

Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

In Chronicles, same story, except it is Satan who incites David to take the census.

Yeah, there are some mistakes in the Bible, but Christians will never admit it.

If you argue that the Bible is true because it's a perfect seamless argument from the first chapter of Genesis to the last chapter of the Revelation of John, you're going to run into this stuff all the time. You also have to ignore the passages where different parts of the Bible are explicitly identified as being not perfect revelation. Paul specifies which parts of his letters are his opinions and which come straight from God. The writer of 1 and 2 Kings continually refers the reader to the lost Annals of the Kings of Judah, and if you take off the Goddidit blinders, it's pretty clear that 1 and 2 Kings are theological commentaries on this other work. Also, the attitude of at least some of the writers of the Bible toward contradictions was not our anxious need to have everything line up perfectly. The first chapters of Genesis, for example, consist of multiple accounts of the Beginning that were simply cut and pasted, without attempting to force them to harmonize. And note that one of those accounts includes a differentiation between clean and unclean animals that was not introduced until the time of Moses according to the Bible itself.

Please note that, while it's easy to confuse the Christians whose exploits end up being posted here with "Christians" in general due to the way they puff off their own world-shaking importance, these Christians represent a tiny fraction of billions of people and thousands of years. 20th- and 21st-century American fundamentalism is a tiny subset of a very large family. So statements like "Christians will never admit it" are not useful.

[formergothardite]

Point taken, fundie Christians will never admit it. I'm here in the Bible belt surrounded by people who swear the Bible was written by God and is perfect in all ways, it is easy to forget that normal Christians are out there.