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I don't know Lisa Metzger very well -- in fact, I've never met her in person -- but my daughter has benefitted from the women who offer clothes, diapers, baby food, furniture, car seats, etc. The ministry is called Truth and Mercy. The woman in charge of it gives free baby showers to anyone in need, not just "rescues" from abortion clinics. It isn't Lisa's ministry, but she brings them baby things to give away. Although her religion is probably different from yours and her values definitely are, I don't understand why you're calling Lisa a twat. To each his own, I guess.

My daughter is part of a growing secular movement away from abortion and toward treating all humans with dignity. They view the lives of unborn children as innocent and thus worth protecting from harm. It makes sense to me. So much sense that I've aligned myself with this secular view alongside gay, lesbian, and transgender pro-lifers, feminists for life, Democrats for Life, and other worthy organizations. I recognize that abortion is a constitutional right, but so was owning slaves at one point in our history. They were looking for someone to drag to the Supreme Court when Norma McCorvey came along. Once they got the constitutional precedent, they tossed her aside. She wasn't even invited to the victory party. She's now pro-life. She has never had an abortion. Abortion is constitutionally protected, sure, that doesn't make it right. And it's certainly not in the best interest of the child.

I think Lisa is probably much more conservative than I am and certainly more so than my daughter. Still, I agree with her efforts to provide for women in crisis. She has recently driven 40 minutes several times to bring groceries and meals to a woman who changed her mind at the clinic. Yes, women DO change their minds. Many, many women are there because they're suffering financially. They want to keep their children, but they have no means to do so. It seems way snarky of you guys to waste your time fussing about Lisa when she's using her time and money she probably hasn't got to spare to give free baby things to women in need. They are mostly minorities by the way.

I think you all may have listened to a lot of misinformation about what is really happening with this issue. If abortion wasn't horrific, there would be no freakish photos to gross out innocent children WITH. That's the whole point. That no one should dismember their own children for the sake of convenience, money, or fear. I didn't allow my children to view photos of abortion when they were younger, but I wonder why those who support abortion so vigorously mind so much. I mean, they are all FOR killing unborn babies. If it's so OKAY to do that, why not advertise them on tv, show them on medical shows in real time on TLC? Maybe because it's not so okay. Sort of a dirty little secret.

Before Roe, it was already legal to have an abortion for medical reasons such as tubal pregnancy or serious birth defects. No one is asking to change that. But to me, it's logical and pro-woman to offer assistance to KEEP a baby the way Lisa tirelessly does. Her personality may make you cringe. She's sort of Duggary, I suppose, and you guys don't like all that authority and control. I get that. But name-calling is a total waste of time. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen or take a homeless person home with you to take a shower and have a hot meal. I'm not saying this to offend. I just want to let you know what goes on at the clinics is not what you think. Also, although there are two men that show up sometimes that I think hinder the cause, there are waaaaaay more women there. My daughter, the mother of my one year old grandson, felt duped by all the liberal propaganda she heard regarding abortion. She's so glad she didn't abort her son, and she sometimes goes out to the clinic and sets up a table filled with baby items. Women serving women. That's what it's all about.

In my experience, people who are pro-choice generally don't think that abortion is a super awesome thing. I'm pro-choice because I think abortion should be legal. Just because you think soemthing should be legal doesn't necessarily mean you think it's a n amazing thing. I think abortion should be legal because A. women who really want abortions would get them anyway, and they would be a lot more dangerous to both the mother and the fetus and it would be a lot more harmful to women of lower socioeconomic status because they wouldn't be able to pay for a safer back-alley abortion and B. because women have a right to control their own bodies. If you want to disagree with me on that second count, fine, but then you have to be okay with the fact that you've given up your bodily autonomy and whatever that might entail. I am NOT okay with that.

And a note on abortions looking gross--I've seen pictures of my birth (I was born via C-section) and they are gross. Lots of blood and gore. And I was a pretty ugly looking newborn. So does that make my birth a bad thing? Because pictures of it are unpleasant to look at? I think not.

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Hey Creativepowerthinking or whoever, glad for your daughter to have made her choice. That, however,does not mean she gets to prevent or restrict other women from making their choice.

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My parents took me to picket abortion clinics when I was between four and six. I had my own little sign to hold. I don't remember being traumatized, but then the signs were only text, no graphic pictures, and I also don't recall anyone accosting, or even speaking to the women as they entered the clinic.

I've talked to my mom about the picketing since, as she knows that I'm very pro-choice now. She said that she probably wouldn't do it again, but at that time (more than 25 years ago) it seemed to her to be the best thing to do.

It makes me angry that these people spend so much time picketing. If they invested the same amount of time lobbying for better health care and services for marginalized women, or ACTUALLY doing things that supported them...what a different world it would be. So what, this woman has given a few baby clothes to women who decided not to terminate their pregnancy? Big fat fucking deal. My friend had a friend who was pregnant and unemployed. She was single, the sperm donor left her as soon as the test popped positive. Her entire family thought she should have an abortion. Her landlord evicted her when he found out she was pregnant. Where were the fucking pro-life people when she sobbed in the abortion clinic office because she didn't want an abortion but had absolutely no support and the crisis pregnancy center was only open four days a week and told her they could give her a crib and a stroller and suggested she talk to an adoption agency they recommended - they didn't help with housing or financial aid, they just wanted to snatch that baby into a "good Christian home". Where were the fucking protesters then? Oh yeah, they were to busy with their fucking pictures of miscarried babies outside the clinic, and it was me, the pro-choice stranger who took in my friend's friend for six months until she got on her feet and had her baby. I have absolutely no respect or patience for picketers.

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If abortion wasn't horrific, there would be no freakish photos to gross out innocent children WITH. That's the whole point.

Hm? I wouldn't let my children see graphic photos of open heart surgeries, hip replacements, or colon biopsies. I wouldn't want to look at them myself either. Because, frankly, it's gross and, for a kid, scary. It doesn't logically follow that, if photos of a medical procedure are frightening or nasty, that means the procedure itself is horrific/morally wrong.

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I don't know Lisa Metzger very well -- in fact, I've never met her in person -- but my daughter has benefitted from the women who offer clothes, diapers, baby food, furniture, car seats, etc. The ministry is called Truth and Mercy. The woman in charge of it gives free baby showers to anyone in need, not just "rescues" from abortion clinics. It isn't Lisa's ministry, but she brings them baby things to give away. Although her religion is probably different from yours and her values definitely are, I don't understand why you're calling Lisa a twat. To each his own, I guess.

My daughter is part of a growing secular movement away from abortion and toward treating all humans with dignity. They view the lives of unborn children as innocent and thus worth protecting from harm. It makes sense to me. So much sense that I've aligned myself with this secular view alongside gay, lesbian, and transgender pro-lifers, feminists for life, Democrats for Life, and other worthy organizations. I recognize that abortion is a constitutional right, but so was owning slaves at one point in our history. They were looking for someone to drag to the Supreme Court when Norma McCorvey came along. Once they got the constitutional precedent, they tossed her aside. She wasn't even invited to the victory party. She's now pro-life. She has never had an abortion. Abortion is constitutionally protected, sure, that doesn't make it right. And it's certainly not in the best interest of the child.

I think Lisa is probably much more conservative than I am and certainly more so than my daughter. Still, I agree with her efforts to provide for women in crisis. She has recently driven 40 minutes several times to bring groceries and meals to a woman who changed her mind at the clinic. Yes, women DO change their minds. Many, many women are there because they're suffering financially. They want to keep their children, but they have no means to do so. It seems way snarky of you guys to waste your time fussing about Lisa when she's using her time and money she probably hasn't got to spare to give free baby things to women in need. They are mostly minorities by the way.

I think you all may have listened to a lot of misinformation about what is really happening with this issue. If abortion wasn't horrific, there would be no freakish photos to gross out innocent children WITH. That's the whole point. That no one should dismember their own children for the sake of convenience, money, or fear. I didn't allow my children to view photos of abortion when they were younger, but I wonder why those who support abortion so vigorously mind so much. I mean, they are all FOR killing unborn babies. If it's so OKAY to do that, why not advertise them on tv, show them on medical shows in real time on TLC? Maybe because it's not so okay. Sort of a dirty little secret.

Before Roe, it was already legal to have an abortion for medical reasons such as tubal pregnancy or serious birth defects. No one is asking to change that. But to me, it's logical and pro-woman to offer assistance to KEEP a baby the way Lisa tirelessly does. Her personality may make you cringe. She's sort of Duggary, I suppose, and you guys don't like all that authority and control. I get that. But name-calling is a total waste of time. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen or take a homeless person home with you to take a shower and have a hot meal. I'm not saying this to offend. I just want to let you know what goes on at the clinics is not what you think. Also, although there are two men that show up sometimes that I think hinder the cause, there are waaaaaay more women there. My daughter, the mother of my one year old grandson, felt duped by all the liberal propaganda she heard regarding abortion. She's so glad she didn't abort her son, and she sometimes goes out to the clinic and sets up a table filled with baby items. Women serving women. That's what it's all about.

I don't even know where to start with this, so I'll just leave this here - it's a wonderful, succinct description of what it means to be pro-choice.

6Sj7mkFr6Qc

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Guest Anonymous
Self righteous people shaming, intimidating, and lying to women. That's what it's all about.

Fixed that for you.

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. If abortion wasn't horrific, there would be no freakish photos to gross out innocent children WITH.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

My father is a docotr, so I grew up around tons of medical reference books. Medical procedures and pictures are almost universally GROSS. Even the good stuff looks icky. When we watched a video of a vaginal birth in health class in high school, one kid threw up.

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I really don't think any of you should judge someone. The Bible speaks of judging others. I happen to know Lisa and think she is a wonderful Mother. I support her whole heartedly in her stand on abortion. Bringing her children is a decision her and her husband made for their family. They are not asking you to take your children. This Mother is very careful with her children. I am certain she talks with them gently to explain what they are in support of. Abortion is not new. It has been going on for way to long. This family is not hiding the fact from their children. They are just showing them the true facts. If you would look in the mirror and ask yourself...."What have I allowed my children to see? What movies? What songs do they hear?" I bet if you are truely honest with yourself you will be surprised at what you have allowed in your childrens life. At least this mother is trying to teach her children how to save lives. She is not asking any of you to do this. I would also evaluate your own lives. The words I saw being used speaks of you very well.

God Bess!

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Guest Anonymous
I really don't think any of you should judge someone. The Bible speaks of judging others. I happen to know Lisa and think she is a wonderful Mother. I support her whole heartedly in her stand on abortion. Bringing her children is a decision her and her husband made for their family. They are not asking you to take your children. This Mother is very careful with her children. I am certain she talks with them gently to explain what they are in support of. Abortion is not new. It has been going on for way to long. This family is not hiding the fact from their children. They are just showing them the true facts. If you would look in the mirror and ask yourself...."What have I allowed my children to see? What movies? What songs do they hear?" I bet if you are truely honest with yourself you will be surprised at what you have allowed in your childrens life. At least this mother is trying to teach her children how to save lives. She is not asking any of you to do this. I would also evaluate your own lives. The words I saw being used speaks of you very well.

God Bess!

Please tell me that you don't homeschool those children of yours. (Crossing my fingers!)

Also, this Lisa person seems to have an internet army of hand slapping flying monkeys. /Cower.

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Well God Bess you to from this Mother.

The fact is that sometimes all choices seem equally bad. Here is what happens when legislators think they can take over medical decision making from women and their doctors:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7001 ... o-law.html

(story of the Nebraska couple who were forced to wait while their baby was slowly crushed to death in her uterus)

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I really don't think any of you should judge someone. The Bible speaks of judging others.

Right back at you. Bless your heart!

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I really don't think any of you should judge someone. The Bible speaks of judging others. I happen to know Lisa and think she is a wonderful Mother. I support her whole heartedly in her stand on abortion. Bringing her children is a decision her and her husband made for their family. They are not asking you to take your children. This Mother is very careful with her children. I am certain she talks with them gently to explain what they are in support of. Abortion is not new. It has been going on for way to long. This family is not hiding the fact from their children. They are just showing them the true facts. If you would look in the mirror and ask yourself...."What have I allowed my children to see? What movies? What songs do they hear?" I bet if you are truely honest with yourself you will be surprised at what you have allowed in your childrens life. At least this mother is trying to teach her children how to save lives. She is not asking any of you to do this. I would also evaluate your own lives. The words I saw being used speaks of you very well.

God Bess!

Oh lookie, we got the "Christian" Fuck you! :lol:

As for Lisa being a wonderful mother, I guess that depends on your definition of "wonderful". Compared to the Schatz's who beat their daughter to death, well yes, Lisa hasn't killed any of her children....yet.

As for Lisa being careful with her children, um no freaking way. The pictures shows she doesn't give one flip about her children.

This is one woman who needs to stay home more often. We already know she sits on her ass all day when she is home while she has her children do her work for her. She brags about it on her chore charts. Why in the world do you think she had to adopt an older child?

As for judging...that is rich. I think Lisa does plenty of judging herself. http://www.a2ndgenerationofhomeschoolin ... se-in.html Why don't you get back with her and tell her to stop judging others. It works both ways you know.

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FloraPoste, that story is chilling.

The right-to-life lady pissed me off - who is she to decide what is "most compassionate" when she has no direct connection to the situation? It's just beyond arrogant that she, a stranger to this family, could/would decide that she knew better than they did.

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Where do they live? I bet it was a hot day when she dragged her kids out for an all day protest.

The pics were taken in Charlotte, NC. The whole area is in the middle of a heat wave with extreme heat advisories on the news most of the past week. The day she had her children out there standing around in the heat it got up to 96°, with high humidity and a heat index over 100°. In North Carolina, they are not allowed to have prison inmates outside in those conditions, but she had very young children stuck outside in it. All in the name of good parenting, right?

I love the little sycophant army, btw, especially the little judgmental touches in the last post. I loved how "heavenbound" started her post by telling her not to judge, then ended it by judging our lives and words. Then again, almost nothing surprises me from some of these people, and I say that as someone who used to be one.

I do think it's wrong to show such graphic images to young children. That may be her choice, but it is not cool to hold them up beside the road where other people's children may see them. Then again, these people don't really care about anyone else. They love the attention and is is so much easier and more gratifying to certain types of people to stand by the roadside and condemn others than to show any true compassion.

Would Lisa and her bunch help the girl who had an abortion and was thrown out of her home by her "Christian" parents, and needed food and a place to stay, or would they reject her because she didn't do things their way?

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My daughter, the mother of my one year old grandson, felt duped by all the liberal propaganda she heard regarding abortion. She's so glad she didn't abort her son, and she sometimes goes out to the clinic and sets up a table filled with baby items. Women serving women. That's what it's all about.

Ma'am, let me rent you a clue. I don't want anyone up in my business that I don't want there. Period. Full Stop. I don't care if it's by women for women, I can tell you I don't want strange women up in my reproductive parts, judging me for my choices, and I'm sure millions of other women feel the same way.

When I was in high school, we got NO, ZERO, ZIP, NADA in the way of useful sex education. What did we get in 1975? Why, we got the Texas Department of Health's slide show of scary things that happen to penises and vaginas if you don't get syphilis and gonorrhea treated (and this was shown in sex-segregated classrooms). There was NOTHING about birth control, and precious little on abstinence. Do you think that kept people from having sex? Maybe for a day or two!

I've seen attitudes harden over time, and not in a good way. The so called pro-lifers don't really give a $#!+ about the baby after contractions start, it's all about worshiping the fetus. The mother and newborn can just get f*ed afterwards. It's all about punishing women, and about turning back the clock to a time when women didn't have control of our fertility. And now that this is possible, the people who are opposed to women having control of our own bodies are bound and determined not to let us know about the different methods for controlling fertility, or by spreading around crap that the pill causes abortion.

Lisa Metzger could do a world of good if she campaigned to make the lives of women and born children better, but it's just easier to be a slut shamer. Bringing about change in attitudes towards women is hard work, and Ms. Metzger would rather go with the flow.

*ptui*

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I came across a video (FB, maybe? wish I could remember) that a man made with his telephone at an abortion clinic. He had gone in with his wife to end the pregnancy, b/c their very much wanted child had a congenital birth defect. (I think it was mermaid syndrome, no kidneys or bladder, and incompatible with life). They were inconsolable, and went to the clinic and had to walk through those protesters.

I'm not sure if this is the video you're referencing, but it's similar.

If that's not the video you referenced, it's really sad that more than one guy with a sick wife and dead child has to deal with these protesters.

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That's the one! Thanks, Sheisinsane!

You can tell those protesters can't wait to berate some downtrodden teen-aged girl, and they aren't used to talking to men.

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I really don't think any of you should judge someone. The Bible speaks of judging others. I happen to know Lisa and think she is a wonderful Mother.

The Bible says don't judge unrighteously.

I support her whole heartedly in her stand on abortion. Bringing her children is a decision her and her husband made for their family. They are not asking you to take your children.

No, they merely expect you to cede your privacy and put up with how they exploit and endanger their own young children to make a political point.

Abortion is not new. It has been going on for way to long.

What do you suppose the underlying reasons are for ending a pregnancy? Shits and giggles?

This family is not hiding the fact from their children. They are just showing them the true facts. If you would look in the mirror and ask yourself...."What have I allowed my children to see? What movies? What songs do they hear?" I bet if you are truely honest with yourself you will be surprised at what you have allowed in your childrens life.

And how do you know that?

At least this mother is trying to teach her children how to save lives.

By haranguing people while they exercise their constitutionally protected right to a certain medical procedure? If she really wants to teach her kids to save lives, she can sign them up for advanced CPR training, when they're old enough, and perhaps even send them on foreign missions with the know-how to install water purification and waste reclamation systems.

Focus on people, and not just on potential people.

Even if fetuses should have rights, their rights wouldn't be able to supersede the rights of the women who are providing the life support.

I would also evaluate your own lives.

You couldn't come across as being more self-righteous if you tried. That shows not only in the content of your comments but even in the way you word them - to wit, that "I would evaluate your lives."

God Bess!

The next time you want to tell us to fuck ourselves, just say so. We can see through your passive aggression.

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Just wanted to put this here because it's about stupid anti-choice people: my dad was watching The Factor, which led to me saying how insane Michelle Bachman is, which led to him saying, "she's probably done more good than bad (what the fuck does that mean?) and generally apologizing for her, which led to a mini-abortion debate. He used the, "I thought a lot differently when I was your age, but then I got more mature." So when I "grow up," I'll be totally against abortion, too. His ultimate "checkmate" is when he wants to get out of a debate by saying, "Well, I just have a lot of life experience, I don't live inside a computer (looking at me, because if he ever sees me on the computer, that means I'm not doing anything with my life)." So fucking frustrated that he over-simplifies the issue by saying, "There are so many people who want to adopt, everyone can just give their babies up for adoption!!!" My response, "Yeah, people want to adopt white, American babies, there are plenty of kids who will never get adopted." Idiot. :evil:

Doesn't everyone know by now that those ridiculous photos are dishonest?

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Just wanted to put this here because it's about stupid anti-choice people: my dad was watching The Factor, which led to me saying how insane Michelle Bachman is, which led to him saying, "she's probably done more good than bad (what the fuck does that mean?) and generally apologizing for her, which led to a mini-abortion debate. He used the, "I thought a lot differently when I was your age, but then I got more mature." So when I "grow up," I'll be totally against abortion, too. His ultimate "checkmate" is when he wants to get out of a debate by saying, "Well, I just have a lot of life experience, I don't live inside a computer (looking at me, because if he ever sees me on the computer, that means I'm not doing anything with my life)." So fucking frustrated that he over-simplifies the issue by saying, "There are so many people who want to adopt, everyone can just give their babies up for adoption!!!" My response, "Yeah, people want to adopt white, American babies, there are plenty of kids who will never get adopted." Idiot. :evil:

Doesn't everyone know by now that those ridiculous photos are dishonest?

Okay my grandparents use that on me ALL THE TIME. I've learned to respond with "Well, Grandma/Grandpa what about people older than you who believe the same way I do?"

My grandpa laughs and makes some joke and changes the subject. And I can see my poor grandma trying to make sense of it, but sadly she just can't get it.

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Okay my grandparents use that on me ALL THE TIME. I've learned to respond with "Well, Grandma/Grandpa what about people older than you who believe the same way I do?"

My grandpa laughs and makes some joke and changes the subject. And I can see my poor grandma trying to make sense of it, but sadly she just can't get it.

That's exactly what my dad does: makes a joke, "Well, I'm just a reeeal person, unlike you fancy, arrogant Internets-usin' people, and we're reeeeeal Americans, so what do I know?" It's like, I know what you're doing, Dad, you're giving up big time. :roll:

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Just wanted to put this here because it's about stupid anti-choice people: my dad was watching The Factor, which led to me saying how insane Michelle Bachman is, which led to him saying, "she's probably done more good than bad (what the fuck does that mean?) and generally apologizing for her, which led to a mini-abortion debate. He used the, "I thought a lot differently when I was your age, but then I got more mature." So when I "grow up," I'll be totally against abortion, too. His ultimate "checkmate" is when he wants to get out of a debate by saying, "Well, I just have a lot of life experience, I don't live inside a computer (looking at me, because if he ever sees me on the computer, that means I'm not doing anything with my life)." So fucking frustrated that he over-simplifies the issue by saying, "There are so many people who want to adopt, everyone can just give their babies up for adoption!!!" My response, "Yeah, people want to adopt white, American babies, there are plenty of kids who will never get adopted." Idiot. :evil:

Doesn't everyone know by now that those ridiculous photos are dishonest?

Hell, a lot of people don't even want white American babies anymore.

I get the same story from my grandparents. From my uncle I get the "Do you believe that, or are you just spouting off what your mother believes?"

Cause you know a college educated person can't form their own political viewpoint.

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Hell, a lot of people don't even want white American babies anymore.

I get the same story from my grandparents. From my uncle I get the "Do you believe that, or are you just spouting off what your mother believes?"

Cause you know a college educated person can't form their own political viewpoint.

It's like he thinks I'm getting evil liberal ideas from the Internet. If I got my political views solely from the Internet, I'd agree equally with fundies. Nice reasoning, Dad.

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