Fundies and FMLA

[Witsec7]

With all this fundy breeding and birthing I don't recall a single instance of a fundy male taking FMLA to lighten his wife's workload after the birth or adoption of a child. PP, TT and all the rest make no mention of it.

Likely this is viewed as one of those ebil government handouts, although oft times it doesn't come with a paycheck. Does anyone remember a single instance of a fundy Dad mentioning FMLA? Certainly it should be available to the folks who work for Gothard or VF (doug phillips is a tool).

[sassycupcake]

With all this fundy breeding and birthing I don't recall a single instance of a fundy male taking FMLA to lighten his wife's workload after the birth or adoption of a child. PP, TT and all the rest make no mention of it.

Likely this is viewed as one of those ebil government handouts, although oft times it doesn't come with a paycheck. Does anyone remember a single instance of a fundy Dad mentioning FMLA? Certainly it should be available to the folks who work for Gothard or VF (doug phillips is a tool).

Even if they don't see it as an ebil gubmint handout, they probably don't see the point in it. I'm sure the ones who work 9-5, Monday-Friday don't stoop to doing wimmen's work in the evenings or on weekends.

And while the ones that work for Gothard/Doug Phillips is a tool are legally entitled to take FMLA, how much harassment would they face for taking it? They would probably end up fired on a technicality as soon as they got back.

[dawbs]

Well, since a lot of them are barely scraping by, the $$$ thing may be a big hairy deal (since FMLA means they have to hold yur position, but it's unpaid). I'd imagine a lot of them can't afford to take it (we couldn't afford for my husband to take ALL of his when our daughter was born)

And I'd imagine that some of these assholio employers play the game hard--the rules about offering FMLA leave you with lots of opportunities for loopholes...if you work for a small enough business or you have employees scattered to different locations or you declare an employee is 'necessary', you can get out of offering FMLA--I'd imagine they do that a lot.

[JMarie]

Since self-employment is considered the ideal, if the dad doesn't work, there's no income for the family. Not that I think the dads would know what to do with a baby, anyway.

[Kaylee]

Well, since a lot of them are barely scraping by, the $$$ thing may be a big hairy deal (since FMLA means they have to hold yur position, but it's unpaid). I'd imagine a lot of them can't afford to take it (we couldn't afford for my husband to take ALL of his when our daughter was born)

This was the deal for most of the people I know. Some of the men took vacation days if they had them, but many fundies work for the types of places that don't offer much, if any, paid leave. In a lot of the families, either the mother or mother-in-law often comes up to help, but that can be more stressful and annoying than helpful. Some churches also organize meal deliveries and occasionally help with housework or babysitting for new moms, but I've seen more of that in fundie-light type churches than hardcore fundie.

Personally, my husband went back to work the morning after our son was born because he couldn't afford to take time off. His boss actually gave him the rest of the week (3 days) off with pay and told him to go the hell home, but here are a lot of places around here that I can picture not giving any paternity leave. Some of them make even maternity leave almost impossible to actually take.

[YPestis]

I think fundies' objection to FMLA includes the idea that this was written to benefit working MOTHERS because it's assumed that family illnesses are looked after by the wives. Something like FMLA would, in fundies' minds, be just one more attempt by government to push moms to work since it makes easier to work and have kids.

As for fundies taking it...I think alot of fundie men would take it if they had real need but probably don't work at sites where its offered. After all, self-employment and small businesses appear to be common sources of occupation for fundie men.

[DistantStar]

Even non-fundie men can't always take it...a couple I know at work, who work in different departments, she took the full time off but he was back at work about a week after their daughter was born. They just didn't have the money to do anything else. Our boss, I'm sure, would be happy to give both new moms and dads more time off with at least some pay, but the company rules are what they are and her hands are tied.

FMLA is a start, but the US is still remarkably stingy with new-parent leaves. It's embarassing.

[desertvixen]

I think fundies' objection to FMLA includes the idea that this was written to benefit working MOTHERS because it's assumed that family illnesses are looked after by the wives. Something like FMLA would, in fundies' minds, be just one more attempt by government to push moms to work since it makes easier to work and have kids.

As for fundies taking it...I think alot of fundie men would take it if they had real need but probably don't work at sites where its offered. After all, self-employment and small businesses appear to be common sources of occupation for fundie men.

I'd agree with both of these.

[Sola]

Even non-fundie men can't always take it...a couple I know at work, who work in different departments, she took the full time off but he was back at work about a week after their daughter was born. They just didn't have the money to do anything else. Our boss, I'm sure, would be happy to give both new moms and dads more time off with at least some pay, but the company rules are what they are and her hands are tied.

FMLA is a start, but the US is still remarkably stingy with new-parent leaves. It's embarassing.

Do you get paid maternity leave?

[BlueChair]

Do you get paid maternity leave?

No. Many women end up getting a paid six weeks and then up to an additional six weeks unpaid but it is not across the board or guaranteed. After that you need to get back to work or lose your job. I don't know how to insert just the graphic from this article, but I'll provide the link.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/05 ... -leave-us/

America: All about the family values. The future headship and I are working on a move to Canada in the next few years and this is the leading reason why.

[clibbyjo]

I doubt any fundie man would take 6 weeks off work to do a "woman's job". No, that wouldn't happen.

My dh took a week of vacation off after each of our kids were born. There was no FMLA act then.

[chaotic life]

After most of our babies, DH took a week of vacation. I would have preferred two weeks but he went out of his mind after a week. After two weeks, I was ready to boot him out when he actually took two full weeks. When we were fundie and having babies, he never took FMLA except with the company that offered paid FMLA because we couldn't afford the lost wages. However, he always saved up his vacation to give me some break, except for one time when he had recently switched jobs and only gave me less than 3 days. That was the baby I got PPD. It wasn't *just* that I didn't have that week but it did contribute.

[Daisy]

Even non-fundie men can't always take it...a couple I know at work, who work in different departments, she took the full time off but he was back at work about a week after their daughter was born. They just didn't have the money to do anything else. Our boss, I'm sure, would be happy to give both new moms and dads more time off with at least some pay, but the company rules are what they are and her hands are tied.

FMLA is a start, but the US is still remarkably stingy with new-parent leaves. It's embarassing.

If the mom and dad both work for the same employer, you get a combined 12 weeks off under the FMLA laws. My husband and I also worked for the same employer in different departments. When our child was born he took 2 weeks off and I took 10. He would have loved to take more but we thought it was better I stay home longer. The combined 12 weeks thing really screwed us, IMO. As far as pay goes, we both could use whatever sick and vacation time we had saved up then it was unpaid.

With fundie dads, I would say they 1. Don't think it is their job to do anything related to childcare or housework and 2. Can't afford to take the time off. Most seem to work in low paying jobs and with large families finances are tight.

[desertvixen]

Do you get paid maternity leave?

One of the few industrialized nations without it, sadly.

[Sola]

No. Many women end up getting a paid six weeks and then up to an additional six weeks unpaid but it is not across the board or guaranteed. After that you need to get back to work or lose your job. I don't know how to insert just the graphic from this article, but I'll provide the link.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/05 ... -leave-us/

America: All about the family values. The future headship and I are working on a move to Canada in the next few years and this is the leading reason why.

Wow, no paid leave at all? Are you entitled to unpaid leave, I mean by law, I presume that some of the bigger companies give paid leave.

Most women over here go on maternity leave at 31 weeks, some stay on longer but by law you can start your paid maternity leave at 31 weeks.

What you have is absolutely shite.

[BlueChair]

Wow, no paid leave at all? Are you entitled to unpaid leave, I mean by law, I presume that some of the bigger companies give paid leave.

Most women over here go on maternity leave at 31 weeks, some stay on longer but by law you can start your paid maternity leave at 31 weeks.

What you have is absolutely shite.

Companies with a smaller number of employees are not required to provide any leave, as far as I understand. Leave is also not guaranteed if you are not a full time employee and therefore not eligible for many employee benefits. My sister's employer cut her six week leave down to five weeks for her last child because she had begun working half-time. I can't wrap my brain around having to leave my tiny baby at a daycare when he or she is still halfway curled into the fetal position and my own body is still healing.

Then you add to this the astronomical costs of daycare, especially for infants, and many women are forced out of the workforce solely based on that. It's nearly impossible to work a low income job and afford daycare, your rent/mortgage payment, health care, and all the other essentials of life. Yet when these folks get government assistance in any of those areas, they are mooching off the system. They are damned if they do continue working and damned if they don't.

One of the reasons places like Scandinavia have such amazing social systems is their high levels of female participation in the workforce, which adds drastically to the tax base, increasing the amount that can be spent on social programs and the quality of life for all. Women have their babies, take their year off, and almost always return to work. Last I heard Norway had the second highest birth rate in Europe after Ireland, along with one of the highest rates of female participation in the workforce. Those things go hand in hand.

Sorry for the rant! This is one area I am really passionate about. I am determined to get myself settled in a country with more realistic leave policies before I start a family. American family values my ass!

[Conuly]

Wow, no paid leave at all? Are you entitled to unpaid leave, I mean by law, I presume that some of the bigger companies give paid leave.

Most women over here go on maternity leave at 31 weeks, some stay on longer but by law you can start your paid maternity leave at 31 weeks.

What you have is absolutely shite.

No, what we have is freedom, and the American way. What you have is socialism, and therefore evil evil evil. EVIL!

[DistantStar]

What you have is absolutely shite.

Yep. It sure is. If you get really lucky you get some paid time, but it depends on the company.

I suppose the fundies don't care because after all us wimmins shouldn't be working anyway so who needs maternity leave, and babies are wimmins business so why would the father need extended time off, paid or not -- it's not like he's going to be doing an equal share of baby care.

[B5SnowDog]

Wow, no paid leave at all? Are you entitled to unpaid leave, I mean by law, I presume that some of the bigger companies give paid leave.

Most women over here go on maternity leave at 31 weeks, some stay on longer but by law you can start your paid maternity leave at 31 weeks.

What you have is absolutely shite.

It really is. Last year my husband took 12 weeks of FMLA leave to care for his father. Fortunately he had enough sick leave saved up so he continued to receive paychecks. If he hadn't had all that sick leave, we would've been up shit creek without a paddle.

[Rosie]

Wow, no paid leave at all? Are you entitled to unpaid leave, I mean by law, I presume that some of the bigger companies give paid leave.

Most women over here go on maternity leave at 31 weeks, some stay on longer but by law you can start your paid maternity leave at 31 weeks.

What you have is absolutely shite.

Only companies with more than 50 employees are required to give 12 weeks of leave (unpaid leave) under Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA). Women with short-term disability insurance (private, paid for privately) sometimes get paid for FMLA leave by using some paid vacation time plus paid disability leave (usually at a percent of pay, e.g. 60%). Still, those rarely add up to paid leave.

Therefore, for financial reasons, even families entitled to FMLA leave often return to work soon after a baby is born. For those working for companies with fewer than 50 employees, it is often a matter of a few weeks post-birth.

When I had my kids, I was working in Washington, DC, which provides for 16 weeks of unpaid FMLA leave (it trumps the federal FMLA). I took that longer leave, some of it unpaid, used some vacation time, and was paid at 60% for about six weeks of it. It was only because I am well-paid and we could save up for it/plan ahead that we pulled it off. Most people cannot do that.

Absolute shite indeed.

Fully-paid leave is pretty rare.

[desertvixen]

Wow, no paid leave at all? Are you entitled to unpaid leave, I mean by law, I presume that some of the bigger companies give paid leave.

Most women over here go on maternity leave at 31 weeks, some stay on longer but by law you can start your paid maternity leave at 31 weeks.

What you have is absolutely shite.

Bolded - yes. But remember, family values mean women should stay home.